Custom shower stall idea (crazy?)
Hello All,
SWMBO is completely crazy for how carbon fiber looks. She rides a carbon-fiber covered Ducati 750 Monster Dark. Anywho, she had this crazy idea for the shower stall in our guest bath. She is wondering if it would be possible to make a carbon-fiber shower stall?
Its a neo-angle shower pan so there would be two walls that would need coating. What I was thinking was to set up just like you were planning on tiling the walls. Vapor barrier (yes I know lets not start that discussion), cement board with the seams all taped and mudded. Then I could do wet layup of the CF in place. It would be sorta like doing an inplace fiberglass shower enclosure. Or I could do first a layer of regular fiberglass then a layer of the CF. I need to check about compatibility of materials.
Seems like if I could pull this off I would have a strong-water proof surface.
Any of y’all hear about anyone doing anything like this??
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Replies
Or you could make carbon fiber panels in your shop, where you have better control of the glassing. (Or maybe you can buy CF panels premade.) Then you'd use the panels to make the enclosure. But you'd better check the materials price before you get too committed.
Mad,
Id second making a mold elsewhere... outside if possible. No point risking your health, fiberglass is nasty.
-zen
Hi Zendo,
I think that maybe you are thinking about the MEK catalyzed polyester resins those are super nasty. With the CF I would be using an epoxy resin which is much more benign. You need to cover up and wear a good mask and make sure you have fresh air.
Don't know if making a mold elsewhere would be practical or possible since this would be a one off stunt.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Hello Jamie,
I could lay up the panels on a large pane of glass then install them into the enclosure that would certainly be easier. I could then bond the corners with strips of CF. In my minds eye I was picturing the finished product having rounded corners at the two wall interface and at the ceiling-wall interface.
As for price you can buy CF at Tap Plastics and while its certainly not cheap (~$45 bucks a sq yard as I recall) I think it would be cheaper per sq ft than the fancy tiles some people like to use (you ever price Italian glass tiles?).Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
A lot of aftermarket carbon fiber motorcycle and automotive parts are actually fiberglass with a single layer of CF on top for looks (I'm not 100% sure on this, but I believe some of them use a faux CF fabric, too.) I'd think you could just find a suitable fiberglass shower enclosure, put a layer of CF on top, and call it done.
Ding ding ding ding ding !We have a winner in the common sense category !At least as common sense as this can get.; )
A person with no sense of humor about themselves, has no sense at all.
Hey what are ya trying to say?!?!
Yea I know its a silly idea but what the heck, I thought that I would throw it out to see if anyone has done anything similar.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Actually, Daniel, Truth be known it is no more crazy an idea than patching a hole in an existing fiberglass shower.By the end of the summer, I will probably cut the side out of a tiny tub, move that over, then rebuild between the two, to make a shower that I can actually turn around in. My existing bathroom is about the size of most master suite showers...Hmmmmmmmm.... Gives me the ponderance.... Maybe I should just glassify all the walls. LOLNo, I ain't gunna do all kinds of foo-foo work on it. This is bachelor territory. If it works and doesn't leak, I'm happy with patchwork and bondo, etc. It ain''t gunna be around forever... LOLSo now who's crazy ?; )
A person with no sense of humor about themselves, has no sense at all.
Whomever said it was on to something with the sheet of glass as the mold surface.
Perhaps an old sliding glass door?
If you can avoid it, don't lay the CF on an existing surface and then work on "fairing" that new CF surface. It is just sooooo much more work than working back from the glass.
(IMO)
Hi Jim,
I've done wet lay-up on smaller things in the past. Heck I would probably have to lay out the CF on an old glass door just to wet it out. I can see wetting it out resin rich then me and an assistant could peel it off the glass and apply it to the wall rolling out the excess resin.
Talked to swmbo more about it last night and she says that she was only pictureing the two walls (for the neo-angle shower stall) covered with the CF. This should be much simpler than what I was originally picturing with the pan-walls-ceiling totally covered in the CF.
I'm not sure what you mean by 'fairing' it in?
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
When I call a surface is "fair", I mean it is perfectly flat and glossy from a surface-finish perspective.
When I repair a small area of gelcoat (less then 1-2" square), I cover the fresh-wet repair (colored gelcoat) with saran wrap or the plastic from a ziplock (taped over the wet gelcoat). Then, when the repair is dry I remove the plastic and it is perfectly flat and glossy. no sanding required.
If it is a deep repair or requires lay up of layers of 'glass, then I have to sand and grind and fill and sand and fair before I get to the final color layer.
If you are laying up glass in a mold, the surface of the glass against the mold (usually a gelcoat layer) is "perfect" when you pull it from the mold.
Sure, you can lay 'glass on a surface "outside-up" , but then you will be able to see and feel the texture of the weave through the color.
I would think that you'd want a shower wall to be perfectly smooth with no hint of the weave when you feel it. Although, in this case, you'd want to be able to see the weave of a CF layup.
My thought is that you lay up your CF walls "outside-down" on old patio door glass to get nice, large, flat panels that only need to be edge trimmed and installed.
Also, I just thought of this. If you are really good at tooling caulk, black 3M 5200 would be a good way to do the seams. I usually use tape along the edges of the caulk line with 5200; have lots of paper towels on hand; and I "wet" my finger with WD-40.
good luck!
My thought is that you lay up your CF walls "outside-down" on old patio door glass to get nice, large, flat panels that only need to be edge trimmed and installed.
Thanks for the reply Jim I now understand what you were talking about. I think that the smooth gel-coat nice finish would not be needed in this application. I am thinking that the slight texture of the CF weave would be a 'feature' in this installation and it wouldnt be any harder to clean than tile/grout.
Also, I just thought of this. If you are really good at tooling caulk, black 3M 5200 would be a good way to do the seams. I usually use tape along the edges of the caulk line with 5200; have lots of paper towels on hand; and I "wet" my finger with WD-40.
If I do wet layup in place there will be no seams to caulk. Since this is a neo-angle shower stall there is only going to be the one inside corner.
I have never attempted any wet layups on this scale I don't suppose you have done anything this 'big' before? Any pointers? I've never even mixed up such large amounts of resin before. Any tricks to keep it from kicking off too soon?
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Hi Stuart,
Thats another way of doing it. It would cost the same in CF and I bet that the fiberglass enclosure would cost more than the cement board method..but then it would probably be easier your way..... thanks for giving me another way to think about it.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
formica makes a product that looks just like CF... don't know it it'd work... but i kinda like the fake diamond plate they are use'n in coffee houses....
pony
do a search for King StarboardI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
I don't know anything about the carbon fiber thing, but for purposes of this post assume that it is non-absorbant. If it is, yes, a shower can be installed, remembering that there must be pan membrane and that no holes can pierce that membrane, OK?I think I would start with floating a pre-slope and attaching a standard PVC shower membrane going up about 24 inches or so and wrapped around the curb and jamb, attaching the same with nails, but only on the top and the outside of the curb. I like to "glue" the membrane to the floor and lower blocking and curb with Butyl Caulk. Attach the two part clamping drain to the membrane per instructions.Then float a setting bed, setting it lower than the drain to the thickness of your carbon fiber thingy. Shim out the walls so the CBU goes up and over the membrane, being carefull not to nail the lower 24 inches. I usually attach the CBU before doing the final floor setting bed, so when floated, it locks in the bottom of the CBU.I'd then trowel on Laticrete 9235 with the fiber mesh supplied. At least two coats. Now the fun part--gluing the carbon panel thingies to the CBU. God only knows what you would use--try some mockups--epoxy thinset might be my first choice. Caulk the corners with 100% silicone caulk.Your done. Regards,
Boris"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Thanks Boris,
This sounds like a good method to set up the shower stall to be waterproof and ready to tile.
The Carbon Fiber cloth would definately be waterproof (unless I really screw up) and strong.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Now the fun part--gluing the carbon panel thingies to the CBU. God only knows what you would use--try some mockups--epoxy thinset might be my first choice. Caulk the corners with 100% silicone caulk.
I just looked at the laticrete site. I don't think the epoxy resin is going to be compatible with this product. Getting the carbon fiber cloth to stick to the CBU won't be a problem believe me. Once the resin starts to kick off it will stick pretty darn well to near about anything. Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I would not necessarily reach that conclusion--that one can not use an epoxy based thinset with Laticrete. The instructions merely say to avoid solvent based adhesives. I think because your carbon based thingy is not anything I'm familiar with, I would want to membrane it--under the carbon thingy. My first choice would be Laticrete 9235, and I would call their tech service guys before I wrote it off. My second choice would be a sheet membrane like PVC or NobelCS, and again would verify with the manufacturer what adhesive to use.Good Luck!Regards,
Boris"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Hi Eric,
The King Starboad stuff is interesting. Don't think that it would be usefull for my application though.
Thanks for the reply.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Why not??
Cut the panels and make walls out of 'em, what could be easier?
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
[email protected]
"what could be easier?"
Tile!
jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Fake CF is just not going to fly with SWMBO. She can spot that stuff a mile away and thinks it looks super cheesy.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
I knew you'd be fun to have around, but not this much fun
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Hey, I'm famous for making crazy ideas a reality! Actually, I can't believe that it hasn't been done yet by one of the many pros on this list. You don't think that the rich guy with his fancy sports car dripping in carbon-fiber would like to have 'his' (rich folks always have his and her baths right???) bath tricked out in carbon fiber. I am picturing the carbon fiber next to brushed Stainless Steel.
I'm gonna corner the market I tell ya....I just need to find one rich guy to do it and then show it off to all of his stock broker/hedge fund trader friends and I'll be rich, RICH I tell you!!!!
I swear thats how wolf stoves got started. Almost no one NEEDS a stove that powerful but now EVERYONE HAS to have one.....
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
From what I usderstand, the purpose of carbon fire wiork is strength, not looks, giving rise to the fun question of just what you do in the shower with your wife.;)But then I know you are a werewolf and she a vampire. You probably need a carbon fibre shower.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Having done alot of work with carbon fiber and fiberglas cloth in the boat business, what you purpose is certainly doable, however very time consuming and pricey. Carbon fiber is not cheap.
I would use foam core, fiberglas cloth, carbon fiber and then peel ply in that order. Wet out each layer except the peel ply. Set it in a form and vacumn bag it. Using west system epoxy slow hardener. You will need the special pumps that dispense the correct ratios of resin and hardener. If you have never done this type of work you could have a large gorilla on your hands.
For what it is worth you might be better off, making the form and letting a boat shop do the glue up for you. Last time I checked the pumps alone are pretty expensive.
Try a web search for west system epoxy and you should be able to get a little more info.
I would use foam core, fiberglas cloth, carbon fiber and then peel ply in that order. Wet out each layer except the peel ply. Set it in a form and vacuum bag it. Using west system epoxy slow hardener. You will need the special pumps that dispense the correct ratios of resin and hardener. If you have never done this type of work you could have a large gorilla on your hands.
Thanks for the reply. I have done smaller wet layup things with Epoxy and S glass so the techniques are not completely unfamiliar to me. The method you describe sounds right for a good structurally sound panel. What I am thinking about doing is setting up the shower stall like I was going to tile (so the CF will not really be structural) then slapping a couple of sheets of CF on the two walls wet lay up style. Or do you think that that method won't work for some reason?
Yep CF is not cheap (~34 bucks for a linear yard by 50" wide just perfect for one side of my 42" neo-angle shower) but if I can get away with one layer of CF its cheaper than even reasonably fancy tile.
p.s. I specialize in large gorillas.Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
As I understand the carbon fiber is purely aesthetics, the only problem I see in doing this as a wet vertical lay-up is how are you going to control the slump factor. Your material and epoxy is going to want to bag and run until the epoxy starts to kick, and at that point its to late to correct. If you have worked with epoxy before that, window as when it starts to kick, is unpredictable ie:temp., humidity etc.
I would still do it in a form laying on a table, awhole lot easier to control material and keep the weave looking consistent. You can wax the form so it will release or buy a releasing agent. Plus I highly recommend using the peel ply at the end, and smooth it with plastic scraper, your end result will be smooth as a baby bottom
I like gorillas also, however I also like to keep them on a short leash, nothing worse than a uncontrollable gorilla.
good luck
I had to resurrect this discussion after I came across this carbon fiber stool...
View Image
http://www.headhunterinc.com/carbon_fiber.htm
I can only imagine what that sucker costs...
Wow Stuart!
Bet ya it costs more than a new Bosch portable table saw!!
Better not let my GF see this she will want one to go with the shower!! ;)
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Fiberglass parts are generally layed up outside-in -- the outside surface (generally gelcoat) is applied to the mold, then layers of FG are appplied to that. This is the only way to get a reasonably smooth surface for FG.
If you've never worked with FG before, I'd strongly recommend that you don't try this. It's a lot more complicated than it seems at first glance.
Hi DanH,
I'm not sure what you are cautioning me against? Making a CF toilet? Wasn't planning too. Making a CF shower stall? Still am planning too (I know that there are a ton of messages in this thread but if you had read them you would know that I do have fiberglassing experience).
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Yeah, I hadn't seen this thread before it got bumped up, and didn't notice it was old before I replied. I read a dozen or so of the responses, but didn't see that you have FG experience.I have a touch of experience too -- built one of these many years ago:
http://members.aol.com/goodfellow/myboat.gif
I have a touch of experience too -- built one of these many years ago:http://members.aol.com/goodfellow/myboat.gif
Thats a good looking little boat. What I am proposing to do should be no where near as complicated as that.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
Well, it was a kit. I didn't have to form the pieces, just put them together. (But crawling under that cuddy cabin while swimming in wet epoxy is all sorts of fun!)