Cutting met. studs & drywall together
Hoping someone with more experience can throw out a time saving idea, or at least recommend the right tool.
I have to demo a large conference room with non load bearing walls, drop ceiling, bar joists and decking above to make room for more office jail cells (cubicles). I have done quite a few of these jobs for the same guy (he owns several commercial buildings with mult. suites in each and is constantly moving partition walls). Normally the ceilings are put in first throughout the entire empty space, then partition walls are put in and butt to the bottom of ceilings, with kickers going up to stabilize walls and a few screws through the ceiling track. Easy money demoing and installing.
Occasionally, the walls are put in before the drop ceiling and the ceiling is butted against the walls that need to be demoed. In that case, I would demo walls and effected ceilings inside the old partition area, then rework the ceiling to fit the larger space. This is the case now, but the owner wants to keep 6-8 inches of the partition wall sticking down through the ceiling to save from reworking the drop ceiling. Don’t ask me why, I haven’t met with him yet, but I expect it is a cost saving measure. I know it will be more work and time (money!), but in case I can’t convince him of that, what tool or technique can I use to cut through both sides of the wall and the metal studs quickly and cleanly. There is nice crown all around both sides, so I don’t want to damage it or the ceiling by using something aggressive (like a sawzall). As of now, I am leaning towards cutting the drywall higher than need be, cutting the studs with snips, then installing the bottom track and patching the drywall. I know there has got to be an easier way, just can’t think of it.
Thanks, Troy
Replies
cut the wall at the chosen elevation... sawzall and metal blades for the studs and plaster blade for the rock...
cap the raw end with with metal stud track... or have a piece made to fit and if you use coil stock it's all paintd for y...
use PL premium to permatize and an 18ga pinner to hold the cap till the PL sets..
if you fold returns on the cap it's a lot stronger and leaner looking...
cake and pie...
now mail me some of that easy money
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Sawsall for sure,I would just use the metal blade along your snapped line.When the blade hits a stud make sure the base of the sawsall is tight against the wall,this will drasticly cut down on vibration.Snap your line 3/4" above finish-cut-slip track in cap off with a rip- cornerbead and finish.
Make sure that wall is full height and if there is sliptrack or slotted track tie it in solid.If the wall is a grid penatrating wall and only goes 6" above ceiling then you will have to add proper support bracing.
We do create these "soffits" frequently in TI work rather than reworking the whole ceiling.Imercs suggestion of a finished cap is a nice detail to aviod taping and is usually done with some aluminium break metal matching the door or window frames.
good luck,Mike
cut the rock 1st...
then go back and cut the studs...
that rock will destroy that metal cutter in an instant...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
respectfully disagree,a fine tooth sawsall blade will cut a nice neat line in drywall and still cut studs for a very long time.We do this all the time when cutting out doors, windows, firedampers and whatever.I was once declared "the sawsall master"many years ago:)
I use a plaster blade all of 1/2" long... maybe 5/8"
same blade years of cutting DW... cuts the rock over the top of the studs too... and a bunch less mess...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I missed the crown molding,perhaps a little tenderness is called for,maybe thats how I got the ruffmike tittle;)
I am after all a drywall carpenter.
no sense working wet... gawd can that get uncomfortable...
I missed the ruff part... can you point that out to me....
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
I was just replying that my first post was perhaps wreckless because I didn't notice that crown molding was on the wall and the sawsall might shake the begeesus out of it.The ruff part was a reference to myself and nothing else.
What do you mean by working wet?
take off from this........... I am after all a drywall carpenter.
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Very good,how did I miss that one?I only wish it were so,unfortunately I've been framing an exterior of a 5 story since october.I remember those nice TI jobs,carpet floors,heat and even secrataries walking around.cya.Mike
Troy, if you don't mind a ton of dust, just use a power saw fitted with a carbide blade. Snap a line and you'll be good enough to cap. I'm guessing an 8" saw would make it half way. If that won't work, you would need a 10" saw.
I'd probably rotozip the line and use the snip idea.
I definitly wouldn't use a sawzall on anything like that. The sawzall has a tendency to hook one of the metal studs and occasionally shakes the connection to the crownmolding loose. That is something that you probably would want to avoid.
One argument you can use to rework the ceiling will be that the grids will not align on each side of the stubbed leftover wall. It might not seem so bad now, but it might look like a mess when you can see both grids at once.
This topic reminds me of my commercial tenant work days. Most of our techniques were focused on cost saving, rather than quality. The main man would do things like leaving existing carpeting (it was usually glued on in commercial buildings) down and laying new carpeting over it. He would laugh and call it "padding"!
He was actually a pretty decent guy and it was the cheap tenants steering the cost cutting ideas....
blue
Just because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
Good responses all, I really appreciate the input. I like the carbide blade in the circular saw, that was something I was considering. Dust won't be a problem, there are a ton of offices and cubes surrounding this room, so I am going to be putting cardboard on the floors and hanging plastic.
Funny you mentioned carpeting and cost savings, the owner is trying to get the carpet guy to patch the strips that will be left behind from the walls instead of replacing the whole section, that should be attractive!
There seems to be a consensus on the metal cap, I like the idea, just not sure how it will go over with the owner. Thanks again for all the great ideas.
Troy
when you tell him how cheap the cap is he'll be all over it..
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Definately Sawzall work....don't even think about carbide blades......
Why no carbide blades, that is something I was considering before I posted, and with Blue's endorsement, it seems like a winner?
If cuttting steel studs with cardibe blades worked than the stell stud frammers currently 1000 new closets for me would be using them....they use metal abrasive blades.....you can cut non ferrous metals, carefully, on a mitre box, with carbide blades....but I wouldn't try it with steel studs....
I've done this alot....cut it all together with a sawzall... just get your line close ie: cut it high... demo below... screw off your rock to the studs about an inch up from your cut... then get some white gutter coil stock.. bend it on a siding break to cap your cut... measure your wall thickness bend it maybe 1/16 wide (inside) i use 1 1/2" lips up... ( basicly like your stud track but wider with longer legs)... but over bend it a few degrees ..just a few.. so it has some "spring" slip it into place cover'n your cut.. you can skip painting... touch'n up ... everything... if you are careful.... a few dabs of GE caulk is about all you'll need to hold it... i string it pull'n it down to my string... for joints i just let em butt....
the clean up takes longer than the finish work
pony
just had an additional thot ...
we're making a cut here ... then gonna make a drywall cased opening underneath, right?
me ... I'd be inclined to cut the whole thing with a fine toothed metal blade in the sawzaw ...
or the circular saw ... either or ...
but ... I had a thot.
Now stop me if this is crazy ... steel studs?
16oc?
so ... I make my cuts 17.25 down from the desired framing height.
why 17.25 ... so I can then strip the rock to the right height ...
then ... 2 snips ... ok ... plus cut a notch cut at the end ... 2 more snips and a utility knife score and twist ....
then fold the hanging chad up ... and since U cut out the web at 15.99 inches....
and have 1.25" of the side left .... U simply snipped the stud where U want it to bend ... then bend it up ... and screw or crimp thru the legs U left ....
and there's yer header. Just pictured this ... and ya don't have to notch out the web ... just run it under ....
I can picture this ... I've done it lotsa times adjusting heights ... just not sure if I explained my clean as mud idea.
demo and framing all at once.
the miracle of steel ... ya can't bend wood.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Not a bad idea,especially if its just 25 gauge.
Thinkin' like a rocker,utillize whats already there.
why in the **** would you go through all that work to save the cost of a piece of track!!!???
seriously...
I was kind of thinking the same thing....sounds like a lot of extra cuts to save a piece of track, but to each his own.
I'm not saving no stinkin' trac!
The reason I suggested carbide is that it will burn through the drywall without dulling. The carbide also won't even register a small slowdown when it hits the underlying metal studs. The two problems I see is dust, which I abhor and depth. Since a 71/4" blade will not cut everything completely through, even if you cut from both sides, I quickly see the need to eventually pull out my snips anyways to finish the job. Since I'm going to be snipping anyways, I might as well just figure on using them in a significant way.
blueJust because you can, doesn't mean you should!
Warning! Be cautious when taking any framing advice from me. There are some in here who think I'm a hackmeister...they might be right! Of course, they might be wrong too!
We cut a ton of existing drywall with one of these:
http://www.kett-tool.com/webpages/tools/saws/KS-423.htm
Amazingly fast, quiet and can be followed with a shop vac.
We often cut the studs with a 5" grinder with a thin cut off wheel.
A circular saw with an abrasive wheel ? Wow. Showers of sparks, lots of smoke, tons of dust. All going up over the grid ceiling.
Sounds like smoke/fire alarm city.
Be prepared with a fire extinguisher.
carpenter in transition
I like the thin cut off wheels, aka zip wheels, and have used them for cutting duct work in the field, etc. They do kick up a lot of sparks as well, it may take a bit of work making the site safe to use them, but would be faster than snips. I'll probably cut the drywall a little high, zip wheel the studs and use the metal cap idea too. Solid plan, thanks for all the help guys.
i missed one point in my post... i screw off the rock before i cut it on the side ur are keep'n... ur make'n this way too hard... i've cut 30-40 ft of rock & studs with a sawzall in maybe 20 min and one good blade... and being the landlord as well as the construction crew yes i've patched the carpet and if you look u can see it... but in commerical lease stuff many times they lease it today and want to move in in 48 hours... what i won't do for a 5 yr lease...
pony
I'm with you....
Brilliant!6 16 97 99
... ya can't bend wood
Please don't tell that to Stan - I enjoy the pictures of his work too much to have him find out that he can't really bend those handrails