howdy all…
preparing to install 400 sq ft of pavers in a few weeks. specifically these, http://www.calstone.com/pavers/cobble.htm
my question is what is the best way of cutting these pavers, aside from a wet saw. i have a tile guy buddy, and will have some access to his saw, but im sure there will be times when i dont have it and need to make some cuts.
what are my best options?
i have a sacrificial sidewinder that i could put a masonary blade on, but how long do you think the blade might last, and how good of a cut would i get.
how about a brick set? how clean will the cuts be?
any tips/tricks/options/ideas are appreciated
thanks
oak
Replies
If you are going to do dry cutting, how about using a 4" grinder and a diamond blade?
Rent a wet saw.
i've used concrete pavers a few times.
9" angle grinder and diamond blade.
don't bother with an abrasive cut off wheel they won't touch them.the only problem is the dust. it gets everywhere.
you could hire a petrol grinder with a waterfeed to catch the dust much better.
i've had a helper with a watering can trickle water onto the disc before. it works so long as you don't get electrocuted.
you can get hydralic stone spliters that will cut them . but i don't know how clean the cut is.
one tip. if you are working as a team have one laying the whole pavers and another doing the cuts.
or if alone lay it all out then do the cuts its much less stop start then.
have fun.
aleks
ps don't forget dust mask/respriator, goggles and eaf defenders
we just did a driveway with something like that, 12 " gas cutoff saw,diamond blade, cut thru likw a hot knife thru butter, yeah, some dust, probably the fastest.
laid about 200 sf two summers ago.. the wet saw was the best.. but i noticed the mfr. also sold a guillotine device that looked interesting
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
thanks for the info guys...
im gonna take advantage of the wet saw while i can, but just wanted to know what kina options i may have to look at...
also, for you guys that have done some paver work... did you put down a fabric weed barrier between the compacted base rock and the sand?
i have read articles both ways, but read more where fabric is not used...
thanks again... hopefully i will get some pics up here in the next few weeks or so...
I'm a landscape contractor who speciallizes in hardscape. We've already laid over 6000 sq.ft. this spring. Hand held Stihl w/ 12" diamond blade is what we always use, but it is an acquired skill. Wet saw is easier to get good results with, but takes more time to move and set up, not to mention the blown breakers.
Forget the fabric. Not to pick on you, but this is the most ridiculous thing I've seen suggested. Any weeds you get are going to be from airborn seeds that land in the joints and germinate. The fabric does nothing but get in your way when you try to screed the sand.Bear
i was under the impression that the landscape fabric was not to stop the weeds but to stop the sand under the pavers from being washed through the crushed stone underneath.
i've never used it ( i've done 3 or 4 jobs with pavers) but i wonder if over time it wouldn't happen
aleks
If you use crusher run with the "fines", the sand won't drop into the stone because there are no voids. I was asked to bid on repairing a job that was done over clean crushed stone, and there was no sand left under the pavers, so they had all settled.Bear
in the uk limestone scalpings are used. they also use them from road bases.
the scalpings are loads of different sizes so that when you wack them down you get a nice even compact surface.
unfortunatley alot of people just dig out 4" dirt and stick pavers straight on the sand.
aleks
there are loads of paver driveways around me.
th eone thing they generally have in common is that they have all sunk where the cars are parked because the base is not suitable.
so just make sure its stable enough.
aleks
I agree that base work is critical. Minimal layer of sand (less than an inch) over a 12" base for a driveway, 6" for walks and patios. Brought up in thin layers and tamped repeatedly.Bear
I laid brick pavers for a 12x30 patio area and some of the pavers had to be shaped around 6x6 true-dimension locust posts.
After putzing around with this-and-that method, I ended up renting a wet saw cutting station for the weekend.
Well worth the money spent with very nice clean cuts.
Just don't cut off your fingers or hands with it.
All this talk about renting a wet tile saw. Bought one from Harbor Freight for ~ $200. 2.5 HP 10". For one or two projects, made in China in cheaper than renting. FYI, it actually worked pretty well. I'm curious what made in the USA tool it was a knock off though. Anybody know?
Jon
re - All this talk about renting a wet tile saw. Bought one from Harbor Freight for ~ $200. 2.5 HP 10". For one or two projects, made in China in cheaper than renting.
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The rental covers the cost of the wear/tear on the blade, which is not cheap if you have to replace your own.
Not worth it for me even if it's made in China and is only for one or two projects. And it's one less item to take up space, which my wife appreciates....
"The rental covers the cost of the wear/tear on the blade, which is not cheap if you have to replace your own."
The 10" diamond blade on my saw cost $25. It has seen plenty of use, and is still sharp as a tack.
I just wanted to point out that renting tools in this day and age, with all the stuff made in China being so cheap, It often pays to buy. I 've got at least a dozen tools I have used only once or twice (made in China) that I bought 'cause the price vs. time saved was a no brainer for a single job.
Jon
Howdy, Jon -
The cutter you show looks nearly identical to the rental, including the stand !
It is awfully tempting at the price you paid and I do agree/admit it's a great deal.
Next time a project comes along I'll be very tempted to buy one....
Actually, I think I paid $179., plus $25. for the blade, so $204. Still a pretty good deal. There was an extruded aluminum dust shield that that came with it that covered the table tract that I had to remove 'cause it was warped. Aside from that it has worked great.
Not to long ago I picked up (new) a MIC power planer for $20. Again, for one job. Paid for itself the first use. What they charge for some of that stuff is.........unbelievable.
I just saw that Grizzly is selling a 49" x 9" table vertical mill for $3.4K. Before Bridgeport went bankrupt they wanted $12K for a similar machine.
Jon
"The rental covers the cost of the wear/tear on the blade,"
Not around here. The back charge can be major money.
re - Not around here. The back charge can be major money.
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I need to clarify.
The cutter rental includes the use of a blade that is in good condition and is not necessarily a brand new blade.
Worked fine for me.
However, when I rented a large Bosch concrete saw, it came with a new blade which I paid extra for and had the option of keeping it when I returned the saw.
The blade you get with your rental is mic'ed for an average thickness of exsisting diamond. Upon return it is remic'ed for the amount of diamond remaining or used. A [their] formula is used as to the percentage of diamond used and a fee is levied for the use of the blade.
At the rates charged you can buy three or four good blades.
thanks all for the info...
didn't think a converstation about pavers would generate this much discussion, but i guess thats the great thing about breaktime..
oak
The 4 inch grinder won't go deep enough, the gas powered cut off saw will break your back and look ragged. Rent or buy a wet saw and do it right.
Rent a wet saw or buy a 7" diamond blade for your circular saw
(from oak)
”so i have a little dilemma...
do i rent a saw several times for several tile/paver jobs i will have over the next couple of years, or go the route you went and pick up the cheapo harbor freight stuff and hope it lasts..
so, if you don’t mind, I have a few questions for you when you get a chance.
how has the saw performed for you since you got it?”
Pretty well, but I had to remove the sliding table guard because it was warped and interfered with the sliding table operation.
”how many cuts do you think you have made on it?”
100’s
”how many cuts do you think it has left in it?”
Way more
”have you done any tile work with it, or just pavers?”
I’ve used it to do an entire bath in porcelain, as well as pavers and to rip CBU.
”whats the biggest cut you have made on it (harbor freight lists it will do 18" lenght, 12 diagonal)? “
Looks like it can do ~20” with the sliding table. I’ve done 5’ ripping CBU.
”have the cuts been straight and smooth?”
Yes, but in the beginning, they were a tad rough (chipped at edges) but once the blade “broke in” they were fine.
”does the table slide smoothly?”
Yes and no. Over time (due to lack of a dust shield, it does get very slightly sticky. If wiped down with a rag and a drop of oil is placed on the slide everything is fine.
”does the motor smooth?”
“For a made in china motor it’s darn good, though it definitely is not 2.5 HP.
”from your post, you sound happy with it... would you recommend it?”
Yes
”do you think the saw will last as long as you need it?”
Yes
”is the stand necessary, or can i build my own?”
It can be used without the stand. You can place it on the ground or a table. Compared to the price of the saw, the stand is overpriced, but still a bargain compared to making one yourself.
thanks for the info jon...
as i mentioned, i hate buying 'cheap' tools, but his may be one that could be worth the couple hundred bucks... especially when you compare it to cost of renting...
It all depends on the next job...
I have cut hundreds of 2 3/8" pavers using a diamond blade on a wormdrive (started on a sacrificial mid-70's Skil 77). Just finished 900+ sq. ft. patio piecing most of the perimiter into stone retaining walls. Hideous amount of dust; ended up frying the 77 and replaced it with a DW worm drive that I blew out frequently to keep from killing. Still, since I have no tile jobs or other masonry work planned, and no place to stash a wet saw, this worked great. Spent the $$ on the good blade - ~ $35, but it didn't dull at all during 3+ days of cutting.
One of the deciders for me was my pace - how much I could do in a day and the ability to stop when dead without worrying about rental costs piling up on idle equipment.
I have never purchased a cheap tool that did not give me serious grief somewhere along the line...
Good luck on your project. Mine looks awesome! Used the McNear cobble pavers, but they are very similar to yours. After that wasteland of concrete what a difference!
"i hate buying 'cheap' tools, but his may be one that could be worth the couple hundred bucks... especially when you compare it to cost of renting"
Yeah I feel the same way. With the made in china stuff it can go either way, and you can't tell from the price what the quality of the tool will be. I have some tools made there that are absolute junk, and some that rival made in the USA or Japan. If you buy a lot of tools, it does pay at times to at least explore that route. FYI though. ALL my hand power tools 'except for one (~15) are made in the USA.
I don't think you will be disappointed by that saw.
Jon
Thanks for mentioning cutting porcelain (tiles, I assume) with your Chinese rig.
My brother used porcelain tiles in his bath renovation - he cut them tiles himself but had to go to the supplier for polishing/smoothing the cut edges.
i called a rental place today to see what kind of price im looking if i rented a tile saw..
$87 a day + $25 blade charge
i dont know if that is the going rate across the country, but that is from the one place i called here on the San Francisco peninsula...
anyhow, thanks all for the feedback...
hopefully i will get some pictures up here in the next few weeks.. i have all my concrete dug up, im currently digging out the area for the paver patio and walkway in the front yard, next will be removing a couple inches of the soil in the front yard and getting some fresh topsoil (the front yard hasn't seen grass in 40 years), sprinklers, baserock, sand pavers and sod...
thanks again
The wet saw is a knock off of a QEP model, which IMHO is a piss poor wet saw. I go with a Felker, but then Again I do tile every day.
Can't I go 1 day without spilling my coffee?
Lunicy,
Just curious, What does a Felker retail for? Could it be the QEP and HF are actually have components made in the same plant? Lots of made in the USA stuff still has quite a bit of foreign content.
Jon
The Felker i use was about $950.00. The QEP and HF saw are identical. I don't know if they are made in the same place or otherwise.
Can't I go 1 day without spilling my coffee?