I have a strange problem, with no good solution. Maybe somebody out there can help.
I live on a lake in Wisconsin, and a previous owner of the property put a homemade dock in the lake many years ago. It was built with the rear axle and wheels of a truck, with 2 lightweight steel beams from an old mobile home frame mounted on top. The beams are 52 feet long, with 2×6 wood decking over. Out of the water, this thing would have looked sort of like a flatbed trailer. The intent was to tow it out of the water with a tractor every winter before the lake froze. Unfortunately, it wasn’t pulled out one year, and the ice action has shoved the dock into the overhanging shore. The soft bottom has allowed the wheels to sink into the mud until now the steel beams are resting on the bottom. I’ve removed the now submerged wood decking, but the wheels, axle and steel frame are still there. What I’ve got at this point is an eyesore and a hazard to navigation.
I’d like to remove this thing, but can’t figure out how. It’s mired so deep in the mud that it can’t be towed out. The overhanging shore prevents it from being lifted out with heavy equipment, even if I wanted to go to that expense. I’d like to cut it up and take it out piecemeal, but obviously can’t use a circular saw under 2 feet of water. The beams are too deep (10″) to cut with a hand hacksaw.
Any ideas? Can a cutting torch be used underwater? Is there a metal-cutting chain available for a chainsaw? Anybody want a free dock?
Tom in the Land of Cheese
Replies
" but obviously can't use a circular saw under 2 feet of water"
Sure you can. Just bypass the GFCI and hold on TIGHT! <G>
Actually the make hydraulic powerd circular saws and recp saws. I am not sure where you get your hands on those. Check the yellow pages for "underwater construction".
Also you might try the local fire and resque department. They have some that type of equipment and they might want to stage some underwater resque training.
Cutting torches will operate under water. They have the fuel and air. Don't know if they have to do anything special to maintain control of the flame under water or not. But at 2 ft you might just try it.
But I have seen it done.
I watched too much Sea Hunt when I was a kid.
I think they were burning magnesium rods. Mag burns, very hot, under water.
Tom,you might try this lowtech method-obtain some large truck inertubes strap tightly to frame and inflate under water the air will raise the frame and you pull it out.This is used often to raise sunken boats, any good marine salvage shop would have special inertubes for this porpose.The strength of air underwater is awesome,if you have tides at this lake that would allow you to dig around the wheels to lessen resistance.Either way good luck,Mike
Mike, inland lakes don't have tides. The great lakes don't even have tides, nice idea though.
Steve
Yes, you can use a cutting torch under water. Light it above water, adjust the oxygen so the flame has a solid blue inner cone while the cutting valve is open, then go under. Since both fuel and oxygen are supplied by the lines, the flame doesn't care if it's under water. It will take longer to heat the steel to the burn temp since more heat is being spent boiling water. I'm guessing that ear plugs might be essential since water is an unforgiving transmitter of sound. As always, eye protection is mandatory, probably over your swimming goggles.
With respect to the shoreline, are you saying the shore's angle into the water is too steep to tow the thing out? Even if stuck in the mud, it seems like a come-along or 2 strapped to a tree would do it, albeit slowly. If the shore drops off fast though, then you'd just be pulling the rig against the shore wall. Have you considered high explosives? Whatever you do, take pictures and post them :)
The shore is pretty typical of what is called a pothole lake here in the Midwest. The land slopes gently down to the edge of the water, then there is a 2 to 3 foot vertical drop, reinforced with tree roots. Then the bottom gently slopes away. All soil, both wet and dry, is sandy. The vertical edge is created and maintained by ice action, which occurs in late winter/early spring when the lake thaws, starting at the edges. This produces a piece of free-floating ice which is several acres in size. Even a gentle wind will drive this slab of ice relentlessly against the shore, mangling docks, pushing back the shore. One year the lake level was high and it peeled the sod off my lawn for about 8 feet back from edge.
Regerding the old dock, it must have been towed up a temporary ramp when it was removed, because you can't tow a normal sized vehicle wheel up a 2 foot vertical.I think the cutting torch is the solution. To answer another suggestion, the idea of just letting it rust away doesn't seem to be working. It will work fine in the long run, but I won't be around that long!
Plant stand?
I once had this old guy dig me a pond with some of the most homemade things I've ever seen. But I'd bet that between his dragline and swamp doxer, your flatbed reef would be short history.
Look for someone who does steel demo work in your area. They could do it quick and easy with a burning rod or lance. These are steel tubes (about 10 ft long) filled with steel wire and supplied with O2. Once you fire them off they will cut thru damn near anything. They will work under water too. Not something for DIY. Get someone who know how to use them. Check with your large local welding supply house -- they will know who uses these -- once you know that talk to them.
Dave
Use your circular saw and spray son me NC123 from National Chemserch into the motor . Had a guy come by years ago with a small elctric motor that he would dump in a bucket of water while it was running then stick his fingers in the water . He wanted me to do it but I remember electric fence and Emmit Kramer . He would grab the fence and then zap us young folks if we got close. But the stuff did work and I don't know if they are still in bizz.
Any chance of building a cofferdam and pumping the water out?
You may have a hard time finding pneumatic saws but that what divers would probably used in this circumstance.
Another way--carbon arcing. This is using a carbon electrode to heat the metal and blowing a stream of compressed air through the hollow electrode. You could probably set this up with a rented welder an compressor--check your local welding supply shop You'll shock the sht outta yrself learning to do it but I think it may be the way
Good Luck
(my own solution: let it rust to pieces and float away)
James
Edited 9/14/2002 1:02:10 PM ET by EXLRRP
You need more power to pull it out. Maybe a dozer could pull it out for you. It would be easier than working underwater.
Hi Tom,
1) There are underwater tourches and electric cutters; yo'd need to rent one at a commercial dive shop or hire a commercial diver to do it.
2) From the sounds of the senario, a commercial diver might use a mud-cutter (high-pressure water jet) to cut the mud rather than cut the steel. Do you have a pressure washer and could you get the business end to the work-piece ?
3) Could you get one of those big twin-boom tow-trucks anywhere near it ? You know, the really big ones that can pick up an 18-wheeler. It could probably pop that axel out of there with barely a grunt, particularly if you loosened the mud up some with a water jet first.
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
Hey Tom,
I suggest you look in the Yellow Pages for Commercial Divers, look on the www. if necessary on Google.
While salvaging this kind of debris is fairly simple you might be getting in "over your head" if you do not have any experience in underwater salvage.There are several tools for demo'ing steel under water, underwater cutting torches (heat supplied by a 600 amp DC welding machine and oxidizer by O2 through a special torch with an electric lead and 02 hose) very effective for precise cutting up to 3" or so. There are also the magnesium rods in 10' lengths for less delicate cutting, harder to.
There are also several hydraulic and pneumatic tools in the saw-type ared. Pneumatic is ok for shallow work above 50' and are less expensive.
The steel chould be cut below the mud-line so there is no protrucion after the job is done.
This is not really a DIY thing and I urge you to "sub it out."
Bill R
Tom,
Hook a chain to the deep end and it should pivot out. Big tractor should do it.
KK
I'd save the cut up work for after it's out. Somebody in the neighborhood has to have an excavator or a dozer.
The innertubes are powerful but so is suction. Maybe having the tubes in place for a week before the excavator shows up will help, especially if there is wave action to jiggle it.Excellence is its own reward!
Tom,
Unusual problem. One thought I've had is to call a heavy-duty tow
truck. I know from sticking my tractor axle deep a time or two that a good winch on a locked-down wrecker can move the world. I tried
pulling with a 180 hp tractor with dual wheels, but they just spun on
top of the ground.
Watch out for the Corps of Engineers guy, if you're tearing up the bank of a river or lake that's under their control.
Good luck. Greg.
"Big tractor should do it."
Big tractor
More power
My kinda guy..................(-:
(Is there an emoticon for a grunt?)
You're just jealous because the voices only talk to me.
I talked with a diver friend of mine who said that he has done similar jobs and he recommended a regular oxyacetylene rig. He suggested a little larger tip to get more heat. He said that anyone who has used a torch before can get acceptable results. It will go a little slower than cutting in air. He reminded to, unlike a co-worker had done, only submerge the torch and hose. Don't take the tanks and regulators into the water.
Talk to builders, junk yard workers or welders and see if you can talk them into loaning you a torch. They, rightly so, will likely want to come along so be prepared to offer cash, beer or barter to get the deal to go down. Smile and turn on the charm.
What about those gas powered cut off saws that the fire dept. uses to cut people out of cars or buildings. I guess it would depend on how deep in the water you would have to go. Only my opion.
C-4 will do it!
Know any Navy SEALS ?
They are really good at removing stuff that gets in thier way.
Like small countries!
Mr TDo not try this at home!
I am a trained professional!
Tom, I really liked the come-along or tow truck winch idea. Before you do that though why don't you rent a pump and blast some water around the thing, with the nozzle under the water, and "dig" it out with water pressure. If you are thinking about cutting that rear end apart, you should consider that it probably still has oil in it. If you can get it loose, those beams should provide an awful lot of leverage to twist it out of the hole.
Good luck, Steve
Given that it's in only 2 feet of water, I'd start with the shovel and hose to free most of the steel from the muck. Then with a snorkel mask and 20 ton hydraulic jack, push it the rest of the way free. At this point, it should be possible to tow it out with a decent size pickup truck.
If you can wait until spring, here's another idea: Just dig down to the shoreward ends of the beams, and stick cutoffs of I-beam or U-channel under them at an angle, like a ramp. The pieces might be 4 - 6 feet long, and sloped so that the ice this winter will shove the whole mess up and out of the mud.
Do let us know how you solve this one.
-- J.S.
How about using a water blaster as others have mentioned to remove the mud from around the trailer. Forget the pressure washer get a honda water pump, they can be rented at most tool rental stores. You will need several feet of rigid 2" tubing with a strainer on the end and appropriate fittings to connect to pumps intake this will probably come with the pump. Next you will need enough 2" flexible tubing and fittings to connect to the discharge side. I am not sure what it is called but it is generally blue in color and lays flat when empty you can find these things at most agricultural supply houses. Take a look at this web site to get idea of fittings and hose.
http://wctproducts.com/hoses_accessories.html
Next get a 2" iron or galvanized tee to the odd side side of the tee side attach the appropriate fitting for attaching the hose on the two opposing sides of the tee put two 2" to 1" reducing bushings to one bushing attach a 3' or 4' piece of iron or galvanized pipe and to the other side a 1' piece of pipe with ball valve on the end. The valve allows you to better able to control the blaster, opposing pressure when open, more pressure when closed.
This setup will move an amazing amount of mud. This should free it up enough to easily pull it out with a tractor.
I can't help myself. Maybe a little levity wil help float'er out.
Every time i see this title in the index, I read it as "cutting steel underwear" and have to shake my headExcellence is its own reward!