Replies

1. 
   ml_ | May 17, 1999 07:40pm | #1

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   I just finished building a deck using the Simpson clips. No long term info to report, but, here's my take:

   The bisquits are incredibly labor intensive and leave a large area in each board for water to enter. This is a bad idea to me.

   The Deckmaster is expensive and requires access under the boards.

   The Simpson clips are the least expensive, and after thinking about them, they seem the best design. Here's my thinking: Deckmaster uses screws from below, so you have a limited number of threads holding your board, which if you're using a soft wood like redwood, could lead to loose boards after a number of years. Also, the Deckmaster system makes each joist wider, giving a larger surface to accumulate wet leaves and debris.

   The Simpson clips (I installed them using a 10d nail in the side of the board, and toe-screwing the opposite edge into the joist using 3" screws. This puts a lot of thread into the denser wood of the joist. A dab of silicone caulk in the screw hole keeps the deck boards from being invaded by water.) The design feature I like best about the Simpson clips is that the board is held tight on one side only, the toe-screwed side. The other side is held by the clip under the adjacent board, so it can "float" as it expands and contracts. I except this to lead to a deck which remains tight for many years. (I also painted the clips to more or less match the wood color, which keeps there from being a bright line of galvanized metal in the cracks.)

   I'd appreciate hearing other's opinions on this...I'm about to start another deck!

   ml

1. 
   ChadS. | May 17, 1999 11:30pm | #2

   *James,I concur with ml above. I've used the Simpson clips several times now and they're easy to use, affordable and make a good tie to the structure. Simpson has been around for quite a while and know their stuff when it comes to fasteners. I'd go with the Simpson; that is unless you like reaching under your deck in an akward position, spending more money than you need to and relying on plastics and small fasteners?

2. 
   Guest_ | May 18, 1999 04:47am | #3

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   Say NO to Simpson!
   I used the Simpson deck clips on a large craftsman deck about 5 years ago and have had major problems with drainage and crack plugging. I used western red cedar 2x6s for the decking. The deck clips are supposedly designed to provide the proper spacing between boards, but this is absolutely not true. They did not provide sufficient separation between deck boards to allow small debris to pass through them. Eventually, the debris clogged the spaces and trapped water between the boards. 2 or 3 times a year I must take a putty knife and force out the debris between all the cracks, usually with much effort since most of the boards are continuously wet and have swelled enough to touch one another.
   I estimate that I've spent about 200 hours so far doing this extra maintenance, time I could have saved using the Deckmaster product.
   If you don't have much falling debris from trees (especially pine and fir trees) or much rain, then you probably don't have much to worry about and could safely use the Simpson deck clips.

3. 
   ml_ | May 18, 1999 08:52am | #4

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   Yes, the Simpson clips allow you to get as tight as about 1/16th, but you can set any space you want, within reason, using any spacers you like when you toe-screw the boards down.

4. 
   Guest_ | May 20, 1999 06:14am | #5

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   Would this be a problem with PT SYP that is commonly used for decks in my area? PT SYP shrinks quite a bit, and normally we build with no gap (or as littel as possible) at install time. I have never built with Western red cedar.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 1999 08:40am | #6

   *One builder told me he had major problems with the Simpson clips because of lumber shrinkage after installation. With this in mind, I'd like to try the Eb-Ty system.

5. 
   j_menz | May 21, 1999 09:30am | #7

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   Years ago, before Simpson bought the design of these ties they were offered by the carpenters who invented them - West Coast guys. I, an East Coast guy, called them and they were very apprehensive about their product being used on something as dimensionly unstable as PT SYP. They suggested maybe drying the material for a month or more to bring the moisture down. The shrinkage of SYP makes me uncomfortable about ties.
   Last summer I did a 500 sf #1 PT SYP deck with Deckmaster. First, the hardware costs more than the joists. Deckmaster strongly suggests you paint their material (which can only suggest negative feedback) to control the bright glint of the stainless. But the Deckmaster is so oily that painting it properly is a time suck, all that for the 3/4" per length you're actually concerned with is too much. I covered the gap section with strips of brown flashing - a livable solution. If you want to use a Bowwrench for decking correction you can only lay one DM at a time and use pads for the Bwrench to push against from a non Dm point on the joist. Huh, well it would be clear if you saw it. Lots of extra time and money, plus a Sioux drill (a joy to own, but still), but jeez it does look great and has promise for the long term.

6. 
   Guest_ | May 21, 1999 09:46am | #8

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   Have heard that the eb ty is not recommended for pressure treated pine because of shrinkage.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 22, 1999 10:56am | #9

   *Doesn't cutting a biscuit slot defeat the barrier that Pressure Treating creates? I'd think that any type of wood would have a problem with rot/decay at this point.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 25, 1999 10:10am | #10

   *Chris;I concur. The tab which attached the clip to the back egde of the board prevents effective cleaning.Also, only one screw holds each board at a joist..Althoug DM uses only the threads, you can put 2 or three in at each joist.I never tried Simpson clips on TREX. Driving the joist hangers into the tab would be a bitch. I can see the benefit of the clips for wood which shrinks. In my experience, the manhandling to get the wood planks to line up wit the deckclips is about a push compared to screwing the Deckmaster to the joists.Both look great.

1. 
   Guest_ | May 28, 1999 08:41am | #11

   *This seems the refrain on deckmaster -- installers hate the product and love the result.The person who invents a better way...I think the biscuit eb-ty is problematic with dimensionally unstable pt too.

7. 
   Terry_L | May 29, 1999 09:31am | #12

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   I have used simpson clips on a couple of decks and found them to work well. I look for dry cedar to reduce shrinkage and gapping. I find that decks
   will hold water with the clips and this can be a problem. The next deck I have planned I am going to slope it slightly to drain it and use it as a combo roof deck for the patio below.

8. 
   James_Reme | May 29, 1999 09:31am | #13

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   I'm building a new deck and like the look of no screws showing so I'm looking at using a hidden system. The three brands I'm looking at are the Deckmaster, Eb-Ty biscuit type and the Simpson clips. Has any one tips on the best ones? Thanks, James