I will be attaching a ledger board to a brick wall. Is any flashing needed to keep moisure from being trapped between the deck and brick? Also any masonry screws like tapcons that are ACQ rated?
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Replies
Deck ledgers should be either through bolted to the rim joist or lag bolted to it. Use appropriately galvanized bolts for the new ACQ treated lumber, os stainless steel.
Using tapcons or quickbolt type masonary anchors in a brick veneer to hold a ledger is asking for trouble, IMHO.
Check with your local building inspector for the acceptable attachment method, and fastener spacing. Failure of deck ledger boards at the point of attachment to the house is the leading cause of catastrophic deck failures.
Dave
What Dave said. And, yes, you do need flashing to protect the ledger board.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
attaching a ledger board to a brick wall
Depends on what the brick is attached to. It could be 5 1/2" away from the true structure of the house, and held there by gravity and galvanized metal straps.
Can be done, just may not be the "normal" way of doing things, deck-wise. As a guess the local AHJ is not likely to issue a permit for a deck supported by veneer face brick. The face brick can be a problem, too, if "real" face brick has been used. True veneer brick is only surface-fired, which provides a hard outside surface around a relatively softer internal core. That softer core is not what most folk would call ideal for sinking fasteners into.
And, to agree with the other posters, the ledger needs to be seperated from the brick, and also properly flashed.
Hmm, there's a thought--I wonder if the ACQ chemistry mix "plays nice" with mortar?
With masonry structures (particularly brick or stone), it's sometimes worth considering NOT installing a ledger board. An option is to build a self-supporting deck by setting posts and a beam near the structure. Can save alot of attachment hassles. The downside is that additional cross-bracing is required, particularly if the deck is high.
What csnow said. Unless you are absolutely positive about everything that the ledger fastens too, how can you be sure you have enough support?Build it freestanding. You are already digging holes and putting up posts for the rest of the deck. Why switch to a ledger board and have to figure out something else?
I agree with this. I am currently finishing up the design for a front porch and have come to the conclusion that freestanding is the way to go for several reasons. My walls are true brick walls (1920, two courses + thick). I would have only considered thru bolting with carriage bolts thru the rim joist because of the ledger failure stories that have been well documented.
With that said I've decided that the flashing issue along with boring thru that many layers and still being able to get the ledger on its mark would be troublesome.
I will be doing piers and posts set away from the foundation with cantilevered beams running to the vertical plane of the existing house.
Thank you for the good ideas. This deck on a brick house is something I have not done before. I will use the freestanding deck with bracing approach. Another catastophic failure averted by BT'ers...actually this deck is only 18" above the ground, but a ledger would have been a difficult, & probably bad, idea, I just didn't know what to do. Thanks again.
What csnow said- good advice especially since you may have weep hole in the area where you are attaching the ledger that won't weep if you block the passage with the attached ledger board!
all depends on the "brick" ...
is it a framed house with a brick "siding"?
In that case ... drill thru the brick to the wood framing that's in there.
is it a true brick home ... old style ... brick inside and brick outside?
If so ... depends on the exterior brick.
I've attached a few ledgers to brick/brick construction using lags and shields.
Approved by the toughest inspectors around ....
and ... all ledgers don't need flashing. For brick ... it's a toss up. The house won't fall over if the ledger flashing is skipped. But there's usually a mortar joint convient to bend into and caulk over.
and ... I personally prefer ledgers over digging too close to old foundations.
old foundations leak enough as it is .... might be a local thing ... we have full basements .... but I avoid disturbing what lies beneath as much as possible.
Plus ... what's so hard about attaching a simple ledger?
thru bolts ... lags into framing .... lags into shields ....
better never plan on a covered porch. The roof would have to be free standing too!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I can certainly understand not wanting to dig close to the foundation of old homes, but it is also possible to back up a couple of feet and cantilever the deck.
possible sometimes ... not always practical.
options are nice ...
but I don't mind attaching ledgers.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Why ruin a nice brick house with a deck? ;o)
I think you got it backwards."Why ruin a nice deck with a brick house?"No house, no ledger, no problem!
To add to what Dave and csnow said...
One building jurisdiction I have built in doesn't allow deck attachment to brick veneer. They require thru bolting on all deck ledgers and I guess the thought is that you really can't crank the bolts tight on veneer as you will likely crack the veneer. They do allow attachment to solid masonry construction, the caveat being that, again it must be thru bolted. There are some really good epoxy in anchors out there these days, the problem being though that a building official (or really anyone else) has no way to determine how much holding power each masonry fastener has. For example, if you keep your bolt in solid masonry, you are good, but if you hit into the open web of a block behind the brick, you are attaching to air...
I believe that the much publicized Chicago deck collapse in which a number of people were killed a few years back was due to ledger attachment to masonry. (my opinion)
As far as flashing, there is no way to make it effective unless you let the flashing into the brick. IMO the best thing to do is just cover the bolts with silicone caulk as they are inserted. The brick isn't waterproof anyway, so all you are doing is preventing large leaks into the structure.
Really though, you need to check with your local code officials. All places I build require thru bolting - which I think is a good thing.
The foolproof method is just to build a free standing deck right up next to the house. Sometimes you get lucky and your posts that are right up next to the house can just bear on the house footer projections. If you want, you can still install the masonry anchors which won't be load bearing - they will just keep the deck from moving away from the house.
Edited 7/14/2005 7:11 am ET by Matt
i've read all of the posts recommending flashing in this situation and i don't really understand the need for it in this situation.
what are you trying to protect by installing the flashing ?
if flashing is not installed, how will water damage the deck or the existing structure ?
i think it is an understood practice to shim the ledger away from the structure to allow air flow. if this is done, i don't see any advantage in adding flashing.
carpenter in transition
That is what I was wondering when I first posted.