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One rocking horse toilet household and four kids who are growing prissier by the hour about doing it in a bucket. Don’t see any bolting on existing cast iron 4×2 water closet flange that’s been in place for at least 40 years…don’t see any sign of joining material or threading where flange meets water closet bend. Could anyone tell me what my chances are of it being a lead and oakum connection from the top? The flange collar/water closet bend connection is now wrapped in cloth saturated with WD40. If it is lead and oakum, is a blowtorch my only option? Wood floor framing is way too tight to open up a torch from below. Thank you for your time and consideration.
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Jennings, your odds are good that you have L & O joints. A plumber can snap it for you, back far enough to place an adapter/plastic pipe replacement.
And go from there.
Gabe
*It could be lead pipe, too. Iron waste lines were often topped with six or eight inches of lead which was bent over a flange fastened to the floor. If you put a torch on that, you'll be sorry you did because it will melt. What's the problem with the thing? does it leak? If it's rocking and not leaking, it can probably be fastened down again. Ron
*Ron, It's rocking and leaking. The flange is so rusted out that it won't hold the bolts anymore and the toilet can't be fully secured. I assumed my only remedy was to replace the flange. As well, a portion of the subfloor was replaced before my time. Floor leveler and underlayment made it work for about 7 years...I'm peeled back to the subfloor and there's at least a 1/8" differential in level smack dab in the middle of toilet base. Gabe, I'm inexperienced...I'm thinking if a part went on one way, then I can only take it off the same way. Thanks for making me think as they say "outside the envelope".
*Look closely at the termination at floor level, after you clean up the old wax ring residue (if there was any). You should see a ring, or what's left of one, captured by a lead sleeve peened over the inside diameter. Using something to pry and then to tap gently, work this peen back over to the center and remove the ring. Then straighten the lead pipe by striking it from the inside in a circular motion until the edges are vertical. Then cut off the lead flush with the finished floor.Go to a plumbing supply store or even Home Depot and get a new 4" PVC closet flange that has a stub on it with a rubber sleeve. This sleeve rides on a tapered threaded section of the stub and when you insert this stub into the lead pipe you turn the flange and the sleeve will be forced to expand as it ride up the taper and seals against the inside of the pipe. You'll probably have to start the gasket by hand until it is tight enough for the friction within the pipe to grab. Tighten that new flange down hard against the floor, aligning the johnnie bolt slots or holes and the use four stainless screws to finish off the job. If you really crank down on that flange (you'll need a short bar and some type of studs inserted in the bolt slots for leverage) you can get by without the screws. That friction fit has tremendous holding power.You could, of course, just get another brass ring and peen the lead back over but too often the lead is damaged or split and will not work properly and the floor area no longer has sufficient sound area to apply the screws that are necessary. The peened lead is too soft to hold the ring by itself.
*I got the kids down to a quarter cup of liquid per hour if they're not man enough to handle the bucket. Can't thank you all enough for the information.
*Let us know how the repair goes. How ya dunnit.
*After cleaning it up better as Ralph suggested, I saw a slim ring of lead between cast iron pipe and what I think is cast iron closet flange. Bit the dollar bullet and have a call out for plumbing services to remove old flange. I'll post after I see how the plumber handles it.
*If you want to do it yourself, you can probably just drill the lead ring out. There usually is not that much actual lead in the joint. Then follow Ralph's advice and you will be back in business in no time. If you have the fitting Ralph suggested , you could fix this thing in less than an hour. I just had to do the same thing in a basement for a friend of mine last week. Good luck!
*get a repair ring about 1/8" thick, butale rubber caulk, screw down over old with caulk insert bolts, drop toilet, 10 bucks. HB has these or your local plumbing supplier has them hanging behind the counter good flushing
*Poorer but wiser after the plumber's visit--they're getting $89.00 an hour in San Francisco Bay Area. It was like watching dental work done on the Iron Giant. The plumber chiseled out the existing lead with a long curved Mephisto. All of the force he applied was downward...no side to side slugging. Flange just started to break off in pieces. He fit a new cast iron flange on, packed the bottom half of the cavity with oakum, and then melted lead. He poured, let it cool for three minutes, and tamped the lead down twice. Took some time to liquify the lead...and a real steady hand to pour. The kids will never take the wonders of modern plumbing for granted again. Thanks again for all your information...it kept me out of trouble on this one.
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One rocking horse toilet household and four kids who are growing prissier by the hour about doing it in a bucket. Don't see any bolting on existing cast iron 4x2 water closet flange that's been in place for at least 40 years...don't see any sign of joining material or threading where flange meets water closet bend. Could anyone tell me what my chances are of it being a lead and oakum connection from the top? The flange collar/water closet bend connection is now wrapped in cloth saturated with WD40. If it is lead and oakum, is a blowtorch my only option? Wood floor framing is way too tight to open up a torch from below. Thank you for your time and consideration.