http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=200771210080
“By year’s end, Deltec will be using 100 percent renewable energy at its factory. That will make Deltec not only Asheville’s largest maker of manufactured homes but also North Carolina’s largest private generator of solar power.”
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but how do they fit all those rectangular solar panels on round houses?
it's like . . . one of those zen questions
The way I read this article they are going into the solar co-generation business.
Laudable, reduces emissions and consumption of fossil fuels by paying back the POCO with "clean" solar generated electricity but not quite as first presented.
>> The energy Deltec generates won’t go directly into the plant but will be sold to Progress Energy for use across the electric grid. Instead of the utility billing the company, Progress Energy will be paying Deltec for electricity. <<
>>North Carolina’s largest private generator of solar power."<< but Deltec is not consuming any of it - they are selling it to Progress Energy.
>>Deltec will be using 100 percent renewable energy at its factory<<
I think this article all hinges on the definition of "renewable energy".
Good for Deltec, but the article would lead one to believe that Deltec is off the grid and self sustaining -- not the case.
I am certainly not saying it is bad, or that others should not copy their efforts.
They have found a way to turn their roof into a profit center and help the environment at the same time.
Jim
"They have found a way to turn their roof into a profit center and help the environment at the same time."More likely they are turning the taxpayer and the ratepayer into a profit center."The solar panels should pay for themselves within 10 years as the company cuts its power bills and collects state and federal tax credits for renewable energy.The energy Deltec generates won’t go directly into the plant but will be sold to Progress Energy for use across the electric grid. Instead of the utility billing the company, Progress Energy will be paying Deltec for electricity.""With tax credits, companies can get back up to 65 percent of their investment, and the power they generate and sell as renewable credits can pay 14-15 cents per kilowatt hour, Hollister said."Now I can't tell exactly what they are paying for electricity. And there are many different options and services.But for a large genral service user it found this.III. kWh Energy Charge:
4.874ó per kWhPlus some adders.ADDITIONAL CHARGES
I. Cost of Fuel Rider No. 59A
Pursuant to North Carolina General Statute 62-133.2 and Docket No. E-2, Sub 903, the Monthly
Rate includes an increment of 1.046 cents per kilowatt-hour, effective for service rendered on and
after October 1, 2007.
II. Experience Modification Rider No. 59.12
Pursuant to North Carolina General Statute 62-133.2 and Docket No. E-2, Sub 903, the Monthly
Rate includes an increment of 0.400 cents per kilowatt-hour, effective for service rendered on and
after October 1, 2007 through service rendered on September 30, 2008.So it appears to be around 6.3 cents/kWh.But instead of using their own solar generated power are selling it to the POCO for 14 cents and buy replacement power for a little over 6.Why should the POCO and other users end up paying the the difference.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I did not think I was terribly complimentary toward Deltec in my OP.
>>But instead of using their own solar generated power are selling it to the POCO for 14 cents and buy replacement power for a little over 6. <<
Generate and sell "clean" power at 14, buy and consume "dirty" power at 6.
Sounds like a profit center to me - that roof is doing OK at a little better than 100% gain. Profit is profit - as long as the activity is legal, which this one certainly is, source is not terribly important to many corporations.
>>Why should the POCO and other users end up paying the the difference.<<
Someone should have figured that out when the rules were written. Deltec did not invent the rules, but they have figured out how to reap the benefits. In theory, the POCO and other users benefit from the "clean" power produced by Deltec by reducing the grid's overall need for "dirty" power.
I am certain that Deltec is benefiting from the good "green" PR. Looks like a good spin job to me.
T'would seem to me that the only way out is a rule change.
JimNever underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
>I did not think I was terribly complimentary toward Deltec in my OP.Ya think. From the reactions here, one would think they're generating power by burning aborted fetuses. (OK, that's hyperbole...I'm exaggerating for effect.)They're generating power, and that lowers the peak requirements for the utility. Enough do that, and eventually it'll stop the need for a new power plant. Even more do it, and it'll eventually allow a plant to be shut. At least they're trying. And I think it's a GREAT idea to sell to the power company and then use from the grid. It avoids the need for every company/residence to build to over-capacity to meet peak requirements. Smart strategy, if you ask me. At least someone's trying something, while the rest of us are just sitting on our thumbs. I can't believe we'd bitch at someone for trying to make alternative energy work.
My problem with the article is not the actions of Deltec - it is with the misleading presentation of those actions.
From 98144.3:
>> Laudable, reduces emissions and consumption of fossil fuels by paying back the POCO with "clean" solar generated electricity....."The energy Deltec generates won’t go directly into the plant but will be sold to Progress Energy for use across the electric grid."......North Carolina’s largest private generator of solar power.....
>>Deltec will be using 100 percent renewable energy at its factory<<.......
I am certainly not saying it is bad, or that others should not copy their efforts.
They have found a way to turn their roof into a profit center and help the environment at the same time. <<
>>Deltec will be using 100 percent renewable energy at its factory<< This is patently untrue and even admitted in the article.
However, this IS the statement / perception that Deltec wants you to remember.
I still think that Deltec's solar generation is a good thing as it reduces demand on the grid for "dirty" power -- but why mislead the reader as to their actions? Spin, solely for PR purposes. The company is doing something which is good but they just had to stretch the truth to make it look even better.
As for the objections to the inequities in rates -- as I see it, the only way out is to change the rules - Deltec is just playing by them.
I would not expect the company to merely break even on clean, solar, co-generation as that removes quite a bit of incentive. But I do think the profit margin (as dictated by the rules) is excessive.
Deltec's actions should have been presented differently and more honestly. Could have been worked from the grid demand angle........Deltec's solar installation reduces annual grid demand by YYYY mega watts and cuts emissions by zzz tons of compound ABC. (Did you know you can't post x-x-x? It will show as ###.)
This is all good stuff - but not nearly as catchy as "Deltec will be using 100 percent renewable energy at its factory." Which - oops - just happens to be false - but they did not want the facts get in the way of great PR .
Therein lies my problem.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
"By year’s end, Deltec will be using 100 percent renewable energy at its factory." That one line was likely a throw-away line by a reporter not giving it a second thought. It wasn't a quote from the owner. They're generating more than they'll use. Just because we can't trace specific electrons from the solar panels to the grid and back to the factory, doesn't mean we gotta beat someone up over a reporter's line in the article (unless we want to be really, reallllllllly anal about it <G>)."the power they generate and sell as renewable credits can pay 14-15 cents per kilowatt hour"That does not say that Progress Energy (the company that supplied my power when I lived there last year) is paying 14 or 15 cents to Deltec. It's just the Solar dude saying that credit is possible, but he doesn't say where. And there's certainly no evidence of what Bill said where they're getting 14 and paying 6 and sticking it to the other customers for the diff. I've not seen that in any utility where clients have pursued energy production. The best I've seen is where energy produced reduces kWH billed 1 to 1, and in fact, Progress Energy seems to do the same. They have a Net Metering rate structure which provides exactly that, with this proviso: "There will be no compensation paid to Customer for Excess Energy granted to Company." Progress also charges a 2.5 or 4 cent surcharge for customers who pay extra to get power from "clean" sources. The economics ALWAYS favor the company. We don't know their arrangement with Deltec, but I'll bet you 15 milkbones that they are NOT getting 14 and paying 6, or anything even close. And if they're truly generating more than they use, regardless of the journey of specific electrons, then I'm copacetic with a reporter writing that they use 100% renewable energy. I'd certainly rather they feed extra to the grid than waste it on site so they could meet a stricter accounting of each electron.We need to cut Deltec and some stinkin' overworked, underpaid reporter some slack.
"They're generating power, and that lowers the peak requirements for the utility. "ONly if they are generating large amounts of power when the utility has there peak requirements.When I was looking up the rates I did see that they have a some peak/off peak rates for residential. And the TOD was different winter and summer. But I don't remember what they where.But they go well into the evening. Times when solar power would be very limited if any..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I was a Progress Energy TOD Use customer. I did know their schedules because I programmed a PLC to match it year-round. Someone producing power...ANYone helping in ANY amount...is better than just sucking on the energy teat. Why are you looking for any nuanced flaw instead of praising them for giving a #### and at least trying to do something useful? You're trying so hard to pick this apart...what's the payoff in doing that?
Because, based on that article, they aren't doing anything useful.They are working the game for tax credits..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
> they aren't doing anything usefulYou're unbelievable.