I’m seriously considering tearing down an old chimney in our kitchen to make space for our remodel. It is not used for anything at this point and is taking up precious real estate. My first thought was to leave it and have some exposed brick in the kitchen, but it was never meant to be seen and is not all that attractive. I think I’d have just about as much work involved to make it look nice as to tear it down.
So my question is this: I think this won’t be too bad, starting from the top. The bricks should pop off with a light sledge and cold chisel. What I don’t know is what else is inside. It is lined with a terra cotta flue. Is there anything else in there, or just air space?
I am going to have to patch the roof, ceiling and floor where it penetrates. Any things I should watch out for?
Thanks!
Replies
Is it the only chimney for your house?
No - we have a fireplace chimney in the front part of the house that vents our furnace and water heater. The kitchen chimney seems to have only existed to be a stove vent (it has a hole in it and a piece of old stove pipe). It hasn't been used for this purpose in decades.
Can't tell if it has a flue without looking, but it's no big deal if there is. Just bust 'em out. Done lots of chimney demo's. I've always used 5 gallon pails, fill 'em up, take them to the dumpster. Six buckets and 3 teens and you'll have it down in no time.You do the fillin', they do the haulin'.
Things that have helped me:
Dust masks
Close off the room that you are demoing in from the rest of the house. Blue masking tape around all the doors to stop dust from migrating.Open a window, put a fan in, blowing the air out. (maybe you can get enough buckets to fill up that entire room's chimney)
I had a dumpster placed outside under a window , didn't have to do any haulin', just throwing. That was the cats ####.
Shop vac. Demo and clean one room at a time. Then you can pick a good stopping point if you have to without having the whole place tore up.
Patch the roof ,(at least temporarily) as soon as you can. Can't depend on the weather cooperating.
It's going to be filled with dust and soot and creosote and all manner of nasty smelly no good stuff. It's not gonna be fun. Once I found a skeleton of a racoon in the clean out of a chimney. Uhh. Be prepared.
Rod
I did just this about a year ago. I tore out above the roof and into the attic a bit. Stopped and patched the roof, added a roof vent there. Then a couple months later when I had some help, dad was restless sitting around over Thanksgiving and insisted he help with something, I finished it.
Mine was just a square block chimney with a liner, no brick.
The square blocks came apart easily. A little chiseling around with an air chisel broke up the mortar. The liners were a real pain and many had to be hammered apart to get them out.
The hardest part is where there are obstructions. Getting below the roof line. On my main floor I could only get to one side. Anywhere access is limited. Once below the main floor I could just tip the last 6' over in the basement. TIMBER.
Good gloves, eye protection, dust mask. Get a small air compressor and air hammer with a chisel. That worked the best many times. I bought quality, $8 for a set on sale at Harbor Freight, havn't used it since. A small sledge, big if you have room works well. Most of the blocks could be removed in one piece, or broken in half. Much easier to carry it out in large blocks then a thousand small pieces. Stacked most of them on a hand dolly and wheeled them outside. Also get a brick chisel or two. Those 3" wide jobbers with the rubber grip shield work well.
I painted some of the blocks black and put them around my tomatoe plants. Those with blocks grew much better then the others, and once the plant gets big, all sunlight is cut off inside the block, so there is no weed problem around them. I've also seen people use the liners for outside planters. Though not too many liners survived my demo.
Overall the project wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be.
Years ago FHB had a back cover feature of a guy who invited the local karate clup to come over on a Saturday morning and demolish his chimney.
Did this myself also a few years back. I was amazed at how quickly it went. Most jobs take more time than you allocate, not less. Old five gallon buckets definately help when you get below the roofline. They fill to an easy to carry weight. If you have an air compressor,axe the sledge and use one of those small handheld air chisles with a pointed bit. I think I paid about $10 for mine new. Took me about 2 seconds a brick going that route. Also, by going with that method you can keep one hand on the brick you're removing so that it doesn't fall anywhere (or on anyone). It also makes it easy to take the flue down as you go.
Jon
I demoed one two months ago for the same reasons. It was all brick about 18" square and 16' tall, lined with a poured bladder fill liner instead of clay flue.
I got it set up to do at ten to eleven after spending the AM hooking the furnace to the new chemney. The helper went to get our lunch and I thought, "hey, why not?" By the time he was back with sandwhiches, I was down the six feet to the roof and heading south. I kept knocking bricks loose and throwing them to the pile while he ate and then he took the two pounder while I ate. He was inside by now and making a neat pile on a plywood, one brick at a time. We were done and cleaned up by 1:30 PM when the owners walked in.
Then we patched the roof!
.
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 3/10/2003 4:48:49 PM ET by piffin
I can't tell from your post if the chimney is exposed on the interior, but I have a story to share which may help you.
Had a job demoing a 2 story chimney, did the usual procedure. Demo from outside, below the roofline, down below the 2nd floor line as far as I could reach. Now the hard part. The chimney ran through a chase that was not to be touched, but I had to get he bricks out of there somehow. Climbed in, and worked my way down with a sledge and a pry bar. Dirty work, but went fairly quickly. Kicked all bricks to the basement. Once I finally cleared the first floor line, got in the basement and finished the work. Went back up to the second floor and fastened a block and tackle to the 2nd floor ceiling joists, and hauled all the bricks out in 5 gallon buckets with a helper on the second floor. The dumpster was right out the window, so cleanup went quickly. My boss said it would take 38 man hours, did it in about 16.
Thanks everyone for your responses. Do any of you know if there is generally air space or some kind of fill between the brick and the flue?
I'll post my experience with this when I'm finished.
I took my chimney down this past weekend. Saturday afternoon I got it down below roof line and patched the roof. Then on Sunday I took to rest down into the basement. It was quite a messy job, but not all that bad as most of you mentioned.
Thanks for the advice!
Glad it went well. I'd had several people advise me to just leave mine. It was too much work. Don't even think about doing such a foolish thing. Ect.
Was quite amazed at how easily mine went as well.
I have a 4 story utility chimney (approx 36 ft high) that I'd like to remove at some point. At the moment, only the 3" PVC from the basement power-vent furnace goes up through it. That PVC can either go up the chimney space, or out a side wall if permissable. I'm exploring a side-vented WH at the moment as well, so it is unlikely that any other stuff would vent through it
The chimney is 18x24", and occupies quite few cubic ft. I'd like to use part of the space, maybe 6x8" to build a 3 story clothes chute, and maybe on the roof put in a skylight. The rest would be storage on the first, second, and third floors
My main concern is that the chimney could have some structural component. Is this possible, or common? Since it is located right next to major structural beams and posts in the basement, I suspect this is unlikely and the chimney is pretty much free floating.
Well, I'm hardly qualified to give structural advice, but I'll do it anyway. I doubt your chimney helps hold up your house. Brick and concrete can only support a signifigant load in compression, i.e. something has to sit on top of them. Of course they can support much smaller loads if something is bolted into the side, but most chimney bricks ect don't have much strength that way.
If your chimney was used to support a floor for example, the base of the chimney would most likely be bigger to the floor, then it is above the floor. This would leave a lip for the floor to rest on. This also requires at least the base of the chimney be built before the house is framed in. And that the chimney sits on a much stronger foundation. To my knowledge this is rarely done now. In an older house I'd view it as more likely. But, I'd hope someone with more knowledge would weigh in on that.
Sounds like a big project, how much access do you have as the chimney goes through the house? Part of mine was only accessable on 2 sides. This was much harder to remove then areas that were fully accessable. If you can work out your venting issues, and are sure you'll never put in a fireplace or need the chimney, there are some good suggestions here on how to make the project easier.
Make sure it has no load bearing uses by doing enough demo to see clearly everywhere it passes through a floor. I'd start at the lowest floor and move up. If nothing is sitting on the blocks or bricks, it's unlikely it's supporting anything.
The access varies. In the basement, it is fully exposed up to the ceiling. There doesn't seem to be anything between the flooring and the chimney as i could feel around it with a shim.
On the first floor, the chimney and some older unused ductwork occupy about a 20" x 48" spot in the corner, and there is a 20" x 36" cabinet next to it, so it would recover about 10+ sq ft of floor. The wall of the cabinet is about 2" thick, lath and plaster on the outside, and is parallel to the joists, so I'm assuming it has little if any load bearing. I made scale drawings of all the floors when we moved in just to see how things lined up, and that drawing exposed the extra space in the kitchen.
On the second floor, only the chimney part is present as the ducts end in a bathroom and bedroom. That area would be really useful for a linen closet that also contains a laundry chute. Like the first floor, all of the chimney is behind a lath and plaster wall.
On the third floor, there is about 5 ft of exposed chimney just inside the access door through the toe wall. One thought would be to create a built in seat with an overhead skylight in the hole where it penetrates the roof.
The chimney appears to only have been used for a furnace as there is a single 8" access port in one side. The 3" PVC goes in through this hole, and extends up beyond the top of the chimney.
Another thought occured to me. This might be a good pathway for a ducting for a gas range hood. Do the ducts for a hood require the same type of clearance as flues froma furnace or water heater? Are there guidelines for sizing of range hood ducting. I could see using maybe 1/4 of the opening for the clothes chute (6x8") and a hood duct (6" round). Also, if I were to put in a water pre-heater which used attic heat, the pipes would go up through this opening. Too bad it wasn't larger, or I'd consider an elevator. ;-)
Sounds like a pretty good project.
I've never demoed any lathe and plaster, but sounds like you get to. Maybe you can get some hints here on the best way to go about it.
If you can gain that much space, and use it as stated, it sounds like you'll make your house much nicer and more livable then it is now.
Your attic pre-heater sounds like a great idea. As long as you're willing to accept the risks of water damage if it leaks. One way to minimize this is to build a closed system with a pump and heat exchanger. Then if it leaks you are limited on how much water can leak out. Closed systems can utilize anti-freeze for freeze protection, but talk to a solar supplier I believe it's different then car anti-freeze. But, you'll have to add controls to turn the pump on and off, and pay for the electricity to run it. If not a closed system, I'd put in a bypass valve and a drain valve with a air fitting on the other side. Then if you ever have to close up the house for a period, or lose heat for an extended period you can drain the system then use low pressure compressed air to make sure the pipes totally empty out. I'm no expert, but I believe this would work. Of course you may not have to worry about pipes freezing.
Best bet, find a good solar hot water system supplier and get his help designing this. If planned right you can add solar panels later, add some radiant tube heating, ect..
I plan to eventually put in a drainback type solar panel system. Drainback's work well, but all pipes have to be sloped. In an attic preheat system usually all pipes are put flat against the ceiling under the insullation to provide maximum freeze protection. Thus they won't self-drain.
Don't know code on your range hood ducting, but it should never be moving air anywhere near as hot as a furnace would. check it out to be sure, but I can't see why any clearance would be needed.
The attic water pre-heater would only be run during those 10 months where we wouldn't see a freeze. Not even sure if my attic gets below freezing even when our lowest outside temps hit 20 degrees. The exposed pipes could be made to slope and thus self draining via bleed valves. A pump would circulate the water during the day. I was surprised how hot it got in the attic on clear days even in the middle of January. On one day, I even opened the access door to heat the third floor.
Where do you live at that your attic gets so hot? You act like 20 degrees is cold. We're liable to have a week or better of sub-zero each year. Then a few days here and there where it goes sub-zero on top of that.
Is your roof a dark color?
Is there enough ventilation?
My house has white shingles, and even in the summer it doesn't get horribly hot in the attic. Much less in the winter.
You may be killing your AC bill if your attic is staying too hot.
If you do put in a self draining system, you can get special pumps that allow the water to drain back through when the pump shuts off. That way there is very little complexity, and little chance of something failing. If the pump runs the water circulates. Pump shuts off, the system drains. Very simple.
Oregon, Willamette Valley. Not too hot in the summer, just sunny, rarely below freezing in the winter, but an hour away we have 20 ft of snow in the mountains.
AC is somewhat of a joke here. A window unit or two for maybe a week or two at most in the summer.
For my attic ventilation on the south side, I put in a couple of soffit vents at each end, and in the upper part in the middle I put in a 70 cu ft/min bathroom fan on an adjustable timer, and the fan vents out a soffit in the middle of the roof. Before the fan, the BR ceilings would be hot to the touch, after the fan they weren't even noticably warm.
Not familiar with the Willamette Valley. Where in Oregon is that?
Just how much insullation and what type is in your attic? If your bedroom ceilings are noticably warm it doesn't seem like enough. You put in a pretty small fan, surprised it made that much difference. A simple attic vent fan isn't too expensive, and they have a built in thermostat so they'll turn on & off automatically based on attic temperature. Much more efficient.
Remember when my dad put one in. The vent was above my window. When It kicked on I'd have to close my window as the hot air would blow into my room. You could feel the hot air when you were standing on the ground 15' below the vent. Made the house much cooler. Now that I know more I know that the dark roof contributed much to the heat. There wasn't enough ventilation, nor enough insullation. More vents and more insullation may have made the fan unnecissary.
Where I'm at air conditioning isn't a real big deal either. Some houses have it, most don't. It's only really needed for a few weeks. Having a basement, I just spend more time down there when it's real hot. Still have this dream of putting in a radiant tube heating system. Figure if I do it right I can run cold water through it in the summer to preheat my hot water some, and cool the house down some.
First time posting here - hopefully I've got this right!
Did a search on the past threads involving the de-construction of a chimney and it sounds like Jet Boy's situation from 2003 (described below) is very similar to mine. I have the potential to free up some valuable space on the two main floors of our house if I take out or at least reduce the footprint of an old, unused chimney. Said chimney goes all the way from basement, up through two floors, through the attic and the roof. It is not needed anymore (electric furnace) although as Jet Boy pointed out, I might retain part of the chase for range hood venting from the kitchen (how did that go? - Is a 6" round pipe adequate for this?)
My question relates to the idea of retaining the portion of the chimney that runs through the attic and out through the roof. I would rather not have to patch a big hole in the roof with shingles that will invariably not match. Besides, the chimney lends some architectural balance to the roofline as there is a matching chimney on the other side of the house.
What I'm wondering is: has anyone ever supported the top portion of a chimney (attic and above roofline) with some sort of support resting on the floor joists in the attic? I'm thinking of chipping out individual bricks just above the floor in the attic, working around the chimney and sliding in 2x8s (or something like that ) as I go, to bear the weight. These new supports could then be jacked up / beefed up if necessary to spread the weight over the surrounding joists. This would then allow me to remove the bricks in the lower floors with impunity and retain the nice (and relatively solid) chimney above roofline. Any thoughts???
That sounds like a lot of weight to support. I worked on a job where the dormers were to be "brick". So as not to have to build the house to support brick dormer walls, the architect and builder sheeted the exteriors of the dormers with durock and the masons sliced the faces from the brick and attached them with thinset. Went back later and tuckpointed the joints. I turned out nice and it matched all of the real brick work on the house since they used the same brick.
When taking down a chimney note these two things:
1. DO NOT leave any masonry hanging stuck from the tar/caulk/goo mess where the chimney goes though the roof and proceed with your project thinking you'll "go get those tools later"; even if it is very hard to get off. I got two stories down to my basement and had a chunk of "impossible to remove" masonry fall down the shaft and crash to the floor next to me before I knew what was going on. I'm a lucky man.
2. Under the chimney should be a footing and inside the chimney will be a lot of very mortar that was dropped during its construction. The mortar could be very very hard and difficult to remove. Be prepared for this when you get to the bottom.If you haven't drawn blood today, you haven't done anything.
I was in a friends house once where the previous owner had demoed the chimney at the basement and the first floor and left the second floor and attic section in place. The floors up there all sloped drastically towards the chimney.
Nice....what a pain to fix...if you can without tearing most of the house down.If you haven't drawn blood today, you haven't done anything.
I was the forman on a job that did exactly what Bosn said. We demo the entire chimney,(three floors to the basement), then framed out a box where the old chimney was out of 2x4 & plywood, wrapped it well in ice & water shield and then nailed on cement board and lastly thinset on veneer brick and mortered the joints that exactly matched the old. We even did a corble detail. It turned out beautiful, and you could not tell from the ground or even up close that it was fake.
I actually ended up doing most of the work so was very proud of this unique project which was only part of a whole house reno. When I drive past I always look up to it and smile.
"When I drive past I always look up to it and smile."
Isn't that great! I have a few old jobs like that. We should all have more of them.
If you haven't drawn blood today, you haven't done anything.
You know, if you are thinking of doing something like that, you might want to consider some kind of use for the "fake chimney". Venting the PVC from your high efficiency furnace or an outlet for a metal flue or a venting point for bath fans or dryer.
It could take some thought and work to make it water tight, but it might be worth the effort if you can get rid of some other penetration.If you haven't drawn blood today, you haven't done anything.
My Brother did his in a way I haven't seen before. He went down in his basement, where the base of the chimney was. He removed several bricks on one side so there was a big hole in the bottom.
Then he went up on the roof, knocked off a bunch of bricks, and dropped 'em down the chimney. Then it was back down to the basement and clean out the stuff he dropped.
I figured the thing would plug up, but it didn't. Seemed to help keep most of the mess out of the house. The only downside was the number of trips down to the basement and back up.The United States is the only country where it takes more brains to figure your tax than to earn the money to pay it. [Edward J. Gurney]
My dad tried to convince me that the best way to do it was to attatch supports and support the top of the chimeny in the basement with jacks. Knock off the bottom few blocks. then use the jacks to lower the chimney down, knock off more blocks. Ect..
I preffered to work from the top down as I could envision lots of catastrophic things that could go wrong his way, i.e. dropping the chimney, and dropping one block as the worst outcome my way. Seemed like it'd be a lot more work as well.
The way your friend did it is way to much up and down ladders and stairs for my tastes. Though I did fill the bottom part of the chimney with lots of loose stuff I hadn't a better place to put at the time.
"My Brother did his in a way I haven't seen before."
This reminds me of a story a contractor told me when I was demoing a chimney. There was a guy who had a rental house in poor shape and also access to a crane. Figuring on trying something new, he called the crane in and lowered the cable down inside the chimney. Knocked some of the bricks out on one of the first courses, then hooked the cable to some steel pieces that were enough to support the whole weight of the chimney. Now, the good part. He pulled the chimney straight up, and according to the guy who I was talking to (He's not very likely to make the whole thing up), the complete chimney came up and out without a hitch. Dropped it on the grass and hauled the crumbled pieces away.
Can't vouch 100% as to this story's verity, but I could imagine that it could happen this way. If it's true, it sure took some guts.
Jon Blakemore
I dunno boss, I do alot of solo work but it seems if there was one job where it would really pay to have a second man that would be it. :O)