Had my very first experience today with self-leveling compound. It was a total disaster! I needed to level up my 60×32 shower stall for a kit that I bought from Schluter. The kit includes one of those two-piece foam trays that is pre-sloped, so I have to get the floor level before I set it.
Bought a 50lb. bag of Custom Level Quik. Per the instructions, I poured six and a half quarts of water into a 5 gallon bucket. I realize that I didn’t need the entire bag, but I was willing to waste the remains to ensure that I mixed it in proper proportions since this was my first time doing this.
I added about a fourth of the contents into the bucket, inserted mixing paddle, squeezed the trigger on my ½â€ drill, and promptly threw a swirling stream of mixture all over the walls, the floor, and myself. Fortunately, I was in an adjacent room that is also being renovated and hurriedly cleaned up the mess.
Quickly returned to the bucket, added some water, and began hand stirring as I slowly added more compound. It finally got so thick that I grabbed the drill and paddle again. Within less than a minute, my “top-of-line†Harbor Freight Drill had given up the ghost. Like a wild banshee, I ran out to my garage and grabbed another old drill that I just happened to have. It, too, finally gasped its last breath as the mixture became as thick as clay.
In pure disgust, I put away what was left of my tools and emptied the half clay/half powder from the bucket. The only good thing that happened was my decision to abort the project and seek further guidance before attempting another mix.
What did I do wrong?
Michael
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
Replies
Michael,
These guys are the Schluter and SLC experts.
I always build my own pan, Cheaper by hundreds.
http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php?
Chuck S
Thanks, Chuck. I posted there as well.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
your first mistake was purchasing anything from Harbor Freight.
Believe it or not, that drill has been really good to me. I just pushed it beyond its capability. I'm skeptical about Harbor Freight tools, but I can't always afford the pro stuff, so I take a chance once in a while. Most of the time their tools get the job done for me.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
People burn up drills doing this all the time. I won't do it because of this. I mix by hand. If I did it all the time I'd buy a big drill. Mixing by hand works fine.
Usually it is best to mix things with the water in the bucket first. That way when you add in the powder it is wetted as it drops into the water. Also there isn't dry powder at the bottom in the corners.
It sounds like you had way to little water in the mix.
Using a paddle is a good idea but you need a drill that is big and slow (geared down). If you had water in the bucket first and added powder the drill wouldn't have that hard a time of it.
Cooking is the same way. You mix wet stuff together first and then add to dry stuff.
Every young cook has done the same thing with a mixer unless there was an experienced cook with them.
"Usually it is best to mix things with the water in the bucket first."
I did put the water in first.
"It sounds like you had way to little water in the mix."
I think you're right.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
All I know is I've created the same mess with a paddle mixer. Not much fun until you can laugh about it later.
93611.6 in reply to 93611.1
"All I know is I've created the same mess with a paddle mixer. Not much fun until you can laugh about it later."
Yep, I goof things up pretty good sometimes. Keeps me humble.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
What you did wrong was fail to record the event on video
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
"What you did wrong was fail to record the event on video."
You got that right. I could probably do an entire comedy series on some of the projects I've attempted. I'll pout about it for the rest of the evening, but tomorrow I'll give it another shot. New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
I think I might have a better chance on my second attempt if I know what kind of consistency I'm looking for in the mix. Is SLC supposed to be watery or creamy when its ready to pour?
New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
When I used self leveling mix to do a small entryway, I mixed it about to the consistency of very thin pancake batter. You want it soupy enough to level itself out, which in my case actually started flowing out from under gaps under the bottom sill of the house. I told the customer I sealed some leaks free of charge.
Yeah, add powder to the water initially, rather than the other way around, so it starts out thin and everything is "wetted". If you have a regular drill (not a big, low-speed monster), use a medium-sized paint mixing stirrer, not a big paddle. And of course have some hand tools standing by for when it starts getting stiff.
Folks have suggested screwing the bucket to a piece of plywood you can stand on, to keep it from twisting when the mix gets thick.
For really stiff mixes (most leveling compounds are thinner) you may want to finish mixing on a board, like mortar, using a small flat shovel.
Also, be sure to note the "working time" of the material you're mixing, and keep track of the time, starting with the first addition of water. If you notice yourself running out of time, either make some shortcuts or punt the whole operation.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
Hi Micheal,
I'm in a minority of guys who find it easier to mix small batches by hand in a plastic mixing box with a garden hoe.
A 2'X3' black plastic box will cost you less than $10 at Home Depot. I think they're in the flooring/tile department. The small garden hoe is also about $10 at HD.
Save the bucket for transporting the mix. Better to have two of them, half the mix in each one. Carries a lot easier that way.
Better luck next time, Peter
You need to mix the stuff up way sloppier than you think as well.
I mix it and leave it to sit for 5 to 10 minutes and then give it another mix up. In that time it will 'stiffen' a good bit. Add more water if need be and go from there.
You can mix up your own 'compound' anyway for a lot less......cement, white ( very fine ) sand and thinned PVA glue
Add some PVA glue to mortar/sand cement mix etc and it will stick like crazy.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=44790
View Image
This is the drill you need to stir. It's slow and powerful... and only $99, not $300 for a name brand model.
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
Oh, good Lord, no. But I can give him two dollars and an assault rifle.
Ya know, Harbor Freight tools have their place. If you need a disposable tool that's cheap they are the winners. You just have to be aware of their limitations. And that is mostly accuracy and long term hard use.
I love their $15 grinders. who cares if it falls in the saltwater!!!! Also have a varible speed polisher that I converted to a wet grinder, it is so covered in wet goo that I am amazed it works.
I did have the misfortune of using someone eleses sliding compound saws, sucked big time.
Buy quality only when needed
If you need a disposable tool that's cheap they are the winners.
The thing that seems weird to me is that some of their tools hold up better than the brand names. I have an HF 1/2" hammer drill, have used it for 5 years of fairly heavy usage, cost $20 or so, no problems. Buddy has the Makita that HF cloned, light usage, he is on his third one in about 3 years.
I suppose the problem is knowing which will hold up, and which won't. My $15 HF recip saw is still going strong, too.
I do buy brand names for tools that I will use a lot, or where I care about weight, form, comfort of hand grip, etc.
But I have to say I haven't had any of the HF tools fail on me. I've had great luck with Ryobi, too :-) DeWalt, on the other hand, have had a lot of problems with.
Edited 8/17/2007 9:03 am ET by woodturner9
In my experience:
1. SLC waits for no one, you have 10 minutes max from the time you start mixing to get it down. 2 people makes the job 3 times easier.
2. For it to self level, a)it needs to be pancake batter consistency, b) you need to cover the entire surface by a 1/4".
3. If you think you need 1/2 a bag you really need 3/4. Even in your shower, an extra 1/4 bag would only raise your level 1/8". It's much better to throw out a little than run short.
4. We use a B&D 1/2" corded drill ($59)for mixing plaster, hot mud, slc, thinset etc- 2+ years and still going strong.
5. Use a mixer with two round discs http://www.hydetools.com/data/detail.asp?SKU=09114
Just my observations from doing six or seven pours up to 5 bags at one time.
Jim
The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
- Fyodor Dostoyevski
Edited 8/17/2007 6:39 am ET by FNbenthayer
The cement SLCs are weird on a good day. I use cold water and like others said, add the powder to the water. It says 20 minutes working time on the bag but it's really more like 10. Someone told me there are epoxy levelers that are much easier to work with and they have the advantage that after hardening, screws and nails go in just like wood.
Some good and some not so good advice here.
I have never mixed self leveling by hand. Any manufacturer will have very strict instructions on how it should be mixed. Always follow what they say down to the exact amount of water needed.
Self levelers are simple to use, but easy to screw up. I have seen them separate before because the guys who did the work did not follow instructions.
The entire tile installation depends on how the system is built from the ground up, starting with the framing.
Sounds to me like you had in your mind that the consistency should be more like regular thinset or medium bed. Someone here said it should be the consistency of pancake batter; that is right. Of course if directions are followed then whatever consistency it is will be right. Just make sure you work faster than when you're working with thinset.
BTW, Kerdi is king. We have done numerous installs with this product and I will keep on using it until something better comes along.
sully
hurriedly cleaned up the mess... Quickly returned to the bucket,
Therein lies your mistake. No way could you be quick enough.
SamT
Thanks, guys. You're always there when I need you and I truly appreciate it.
Being a rookie at tiling, I was too scared to attempt a mud bed. But now I'm starting to wonder if that wouldn't have been easier.New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.