A customer told me they were going to strip and refinish their 1880’s trim.
I took a look and immediately knew their impressive, built-up mouldings were painstakingly woodgrained by hand with probably 4-5 shades of paint. Door panels had mirror image woodgrain painted on–very convincing. They were shocked to be informed that their exotic “wood grain” was an illusion.
It would have been a bigger shock to get the chemical stripper on there and watch the wood grain dissolve into a sticky brown mess.
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Sounds like a light sanding and clear-coat is in order
I will pass on your suggestion. 400 grit?
yeah, 400. Just light enough so you dont disturb the faux paint.
Waitaminit... they wanted to sand and refinish it to brighten it up, right? But what's the wood underneath? If they sand it with ANYTHING then the woodgrain that's painted on is going to disappear and what's underneath is a complete crap shoot. I thought that was the point of your original post. If they want to remove the finish, it's either a chemical stripper or a heat gun (try the heat first). 400 grit is for polishing guitar tops and pool cues.
They had no idea the wood grain was painted on. I think the painted on wood grain is an amazing art form that they were going to unwittingly destroy. I don't know what is underneath, but I suspect a mix of woods.I thought 400 grit might prep it for clear coating without messing up the hand graining.
> what's underneath is a complete crap shoot.
I've found some of this in my 1926 house. It was all painted over long ago, but in some places the added paint has peeled to reveal the faux wood grain. In my case, the underlying wood is Doug fir, but nowhere near as nice as the faux paint. I'd preserve the original rather than stripping it if at all possible.
-- J.S.
Bein' as how they didn't have MDF, junk pine, plastic or any other of today's 'paint grades', I just wonder what's under that painted-on wood grain.
Might be worth it to take a small base piece out of a closet, strip it and see.
Who knows...might be something the builders of 1880 considered ugly...like quartersawn oak or old-growth fir.
BruceM
Bein' as how they didn't have MDF, junk pine, plastic or any other of today's 'paint grades', I just wonder what's under that painted-on wood grain.
That is a good theory, until you stop and consider the HO's who lived there in the 1960's probably "modernized" out all of the original trim to put cheap 2" baseboard in. Then the HO in the 70's probably painted it. Then the HO in the 80's&90's re-painted it. Then the HO in 2k thought it would look neat to redo it with MDF and paint woodgrain on.
Then the 2005 HO comes along... drops it in the chemical bath and watches it turn into soggy sawdust :)
Might be worth it to take a small base piece out of a closet, strip it and see.
Yes, I absolutely agree. COULD be buried treasure!
jt8
I was gratified to be able to answer promptly. I said, "I don't know." -- Mark Twain
This house still has most of the original moldings with the original hand-painted woodgraining from the 1880's. What I have seen leads me to believe that most of it is old growth white pine. Some may be poplar though, and the tapered square columns in the entry appear to be made of some other wood.Even though I'm a glutten for punishment, and like to strip and refinish old wood, to return it to original condition--in this case the paint on the wood is more valuable than the wood--IMO.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you take the moulding off, you shouldn't have to strip it unless the side to the wall was painted as well.
I'm taking the trim off our 20's house, and can tell the quality of the wood from the back side.
This is a fancy built up molding (3 pieces), not just 1x4's for casing. I took photos today and will post them soon.Even some simple 1x4 casings have an air space plowed out on the the backside of the board to keep the trim from cupping, so they are not reversible.
White pine or yellow pine? What part of the country is this in again? We've got what appears to be yellow pine here in Ohio, and I was a bit surprised. We have faux graining on the window sashes, but most of the rest is orange shellac. Downstairs the door casings are oak, as are the floors, but the baseboard and the 2nd floor trim are all yellow pine.
I'm in Winona, Minnesota on the banks of the Upper Mississippi. This used to be one of the biggest sawmill towns in the world. Huge rafts of white pine floated down here from way up north.Minnesota has 3 native pines (White, Red, and Jack); only the White pine was valuable in the 1800's (until they were all cut). There is also a Western white pine and Sugar pine (which is also a white pine), but they grow in the Pacific Northwest. Yellow pines are found mostly in the South (Southern yellow pine) and mountain West (Ponderosa pine).To further confuse things, all pines (white or yellow) are fairly white when cut and all yellow with age and exposure to light.Also, after the railroads criscrossed the nation you could find Southern yellow pine in Minnesota or Colorado or even Ohio, for that matter, and Redwood in NewYork.
I realize this if off topic, but is red pine available in the U.S. now? I want to make a TV cabinet that goes with a chinese chest that I have, and I think the chest is red pine. At least it has a grain pattern similar to pine, but is reddish in color. And I read that red pine was common in oriental furniture.
> is red pine available in the U.S. now?
This question would likely find more answerers over at Knots. Near the top of your screen there's a thin horizontal line covering the left 2/3 or so, and just under that line are tiny words you click on to go to other Taunton forums.
-- J.S.
We have red pin ein Miane. I hae some on my own property. Not only does it have a reddish tone to the grain, it is often closer, tighter grain, heavier wood, and still nice to work with milling or planing. I like the look better than any other pine - more like a close, clear cedaar in some ways, but much heavier and harder.
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As Piffin mentioned, you can get Red pine, especially in the Upper Midwest and Northeast. Most of the time I think it is just turned into studs and other dimensional lumber in the SPF mix.You could sort it out if you know what you are looking for. Your best bet might be a small local saw mill.The properties of the wood, mentioned by Piffin, may be because Red pine often grows in poor soil--at a slower rate, than say White pine. Some slower growing trees can be comparable to "Old Growth" trees. This also makes them less likely to be planted.
I agree. Back in that time frame, faux painting was widely and skill fully emploed. There is a church about 60 miles from here built in a gree revival shape with all the interior trims faux painted onthe plaster. There are twin niches painted ontio the from wall, either side of the podium, altar or whatever. Faux paint done so well, that after a couple of weeks atttendance, one summer lady adressed the preacher, offering to bring vases of cut flowers from her flower garden to grace the assembly every week.Smiling, the preacher thanked her for the generous offer, and suggested that she might want to go up and take some measurements of the empty niches, so that she could choose appropriately sized vases and flowers to fit. since they were standing near the rear vestibule where the utility closet was nearby, he was able to provide the tape measure. She got as far aas standing right next to the niche and extending the tape before she realixed how well "fauxed" she had been.
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Good story. Thanks
"This house still has most of the original moldings with the original hand-painted woodgraining from the 1880's. What I have seen leads me to believe that most of it is old growth white pine. Some may be poplar though, and the tapered square columns in the entry appear to be made of some other wood."
I'm in Minneapolis. My house is a 1913 Colonial, and all the interior woodwork (except for the doors) was painted from new. In fact, there's still some trim in parts of the house that have the original paint; it's sort of a cream color and is still in excellent condition. Anyway, where I've had to strip the paint, in rooms where it had a million coats of paint and was all beat up, I've found it's all poplar. It is kind of unusual compared to the rest of the houses on my block, which are of similar age and size - they are all oak for the most part.
Stuart,I'm just two hours downriver. I just found out that the house that started this thread was built by a contractor (Heating/Ventilating) for himself.If my own "contactor's house" is any indication, it is no surprise that a combination of woods was used (especially if they were to be painted).
I grew up down that way, in a little town named Chatfield which is 30 or 40 miles west of you. It's a beautiful area and Winona is a nice town, lots of neat old houses.
Edited 4/24/2005 12:40 pm ET by Stuart
I'm refering to interior Victorian trim here.
sorry. that went to the wrong thread.
cheersTmaxxx
Urban Workshop Ltd
Vancouver B.C.
cheers. Ill buy.
That explains it. I thought you were mightily confused. <g>Gooood Day.
Ironically, chestnut was veiwed as a secondary wood when in it's prime.
I have seen many miles of Tromp D'oile ( or however it is spelt) applied to perfectly beautiful chestnut.
Paint (back then) was a sign of wealth, "raw" wood was for heathens and lower class...after all, paint was painstaking to make and apply using extracts from flax and earth pigments.
Dollars to donuts , if yer east of the Big Muddy, it is chestnut.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
" Do not add to the world's confusion, by speaking in unclear terms"
I'm actually South of the Mississippi--right on the shore. Here the Big Muddy runs East-West and as confusing as it sounds, I'm in Minnesota (South shore) and Wisconsin is due North, across the river. When this house was built, this town was mostly a big pile of White pine logs (one of the lumber boom towns). In fact, this town had more millionaires per capita than any other town on Earth, during the lumber barron era. Anyway, I'm still guessing--mostly pine. I'll do some more research.
I had a similar fake wood grain painted some wood in our 1920's house. The paint turned out to be lead. So just keep that in mind if you decide to sand or strip
Good point. Fortunately 400 grit is not very agressive (but will make a small amount of very fine dust--maybe a "liquid sander" product would be better) and the clear coat will seal up the lead.
U stole my thunder.
Victorian ... paint meant money.
and builder weren't stupid.
Around here ... it's be pine. Nice straight/tight grained pine ... but "fir" all the same.
Same as the painted porch floor and the shallac'd porch ceiling.
Lotsa painted oak stair parts though ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Here is a sample of the faux woodgrain. Looks much better than most IMO.