In Fine Homebuilding‘s Houses 2004, writer Joe Berkeley’s “On Great Clients” argues that great clients get better work from builders and architects than bad clients. Do you agree? Got a story about an especially wonderful client or a nightmare client? Post it here.
Ruth Dobsevage
Taunton New Media
Replies
Interesting question.
From my perspetive as a supplier, I'd have to say MAYBE a little better.
If I like a client, I'll go out of my way to make suggestions that could make the house better and/or less expensive. I'll stop by the jobsite and make sure everything is O.K. after the trusses are installed.
If a client is a pain in the neck, I'll do as little as possible for them. No extra time spent trying to save them time or money. And definitely no jobsite visits if I can avoid it.
Everybody still gets the right stuff regardless of who they are, though. I always try to make sure every order is 100% correct.
So maybe it would be safe to say a good customer gets better SERVICE from me. But not necessarilly better trusses.
From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs. [Karl Marx]
Boss, You don't tell the guys in the plant to skip the "kindling pile" pieces on your better customers?
Joe H
"Boss, You don't tell the guys in the plant to skip the "kindling pile" pieces on your better customers?"
Nope.
But I get questions like that a lot. Guys seem to think we use good or crappy lumber based on how much they complain or if we're ticked off at them.
The truth is, the plant has no idea who the customer is they're building for. All that typically goes out to the plant is a 5 digit order number on the paperwork.
Not all plants do their paperwork the same way, obviously. But that's how it's done here. (And at most places I've worked)The goal for the remainder of Al Gore's campaign is to be less stiff. That should have been Clinton's goal. [David Letterman]
Ah so that is why there was no job site visits...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming.... WOW!!! What a Ride!
All my clients are great, all my work is excellent, all the children here are above average, and my bank account is overflowing...
Gawd, now who stepped on my rose tinted glasses? I can't see, think, or remember a thing - just when Ruth was depending on me....
;)
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
My line of work doesn't fit exactly, but I think the truth of the observation fits all lines of work.
Not so much that crappy clients will get crappy work, but I have found that most people will respond positively to positive input and appreciation and the work will get a bit more attention and the worker will be a bit more willing to go the extra mile.
The good client's work is somehow always closer to the top of the list; the jerk's tends take longer to get to the top and tends to be "finished" sooner once it gets there.
I started one home inspection for a woman who was extremely "demanding." Each little problem that I would find (in a 60 year old house) was received by her with "The owner will have to fix that."
Initially, I mentioned that I was just a home inspector and was there to find stuff; it was up to her and her agent to decide what to do with the information.
Pretty soon I was mentioning that "This is pretty typical in an older house, and you can't expect a 60 year old house to be perfect."
About 3/4 of an hour into the inspection, I told her the inspection was over; I would not continue and she didn't owe me anything.
I explained that I felt she had an unrealistic expectation of what a 60 year old house would be like and she had an unrealistic expectation of a what a homeowner would be willing to do.
I finished by telling her I figured she would also have an unrealistic expectation as to what I could do as a home inspector, and I didn't want to take the chance.
Her agent just sighed when I called to tell her, and then sort of laughed.
"It is as hard for the good to suspect evil, as it is for the bad to suspect good."
-- Marcus Tullius Cicero, statesman, orator, writer (106-43 BCE)
The answer to that is obvious....
Now you wouldn't want anybody to violate their 5th admendment rights now would ya???
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming....
WOW!!! What a Ride!
you can't expect anyone here to comment on that!!!
you might end up publishing it in the magazine!!!!!!LOL
Can you hear her muttering all those sweet nothings right about now?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Most people I work for are nice enough to say good morning. I don’t expect a cup of coffee or a cold drink out of them. I pride myself on my company’s workmanship and if I get a referral well that’s the icing on the cake. All I really want is my check on time and I’m happy.
as far as remodeling goes ... I'd say yes.
especially ... the small .. last minute details .. the one's nobody's ever gonna se/notice anyways ... time and time again I've seen those details attended to much better when the crew likes the home owners.
even little things like "service" .... with remodeling ... you're living with these people for some time ... some sites ... I noticed the garbage cans are brough back from the curb and carried around the house ... the morning paper is carried in the house .. or set right at the front door ...
and on other sites ... the cans are left blowing around the street and the newspaper is left to get rained on out at the bottom on the drive ...
the difference ... the home owners. Nice people get more unexpected levels of service ... mean people have to go get their own damn paper.
myself .. I've changed more than one tire for good customers(Hey, no problem ... I'm already dirty...) ... even when I was just a sub ...
and I subbed a job a coupla years back where after 2 weeks .. I told the GC I was going to change up my hours ... I'd get there right after the lady left ... and I'd be gone before she got back from work. Her and her kids were absolutely miserable ... the GC didn't even have to ask why ... I told him I'd work thru lunch and still get a full day's work in ...
same lady later decided to have more work done .... not one of the original subs would go back. So instead of using his stable of trusted subs ... he had to pick guys out of the phone book ... I heard that second job was a complete mess ...
Mostly due to poor subs ... and the home owner herself.
It's usually nicer to be nice.
Jeff
Buck Construction, llc Pittsburgh,PA
Artistry in Carpentry
Yes. Great clients get better work in the same way that a great boss gets better work from his employees.
For starters, the great client is not looking for a great deal and thus is less likely to be tripped up by his own greed. She is takes care of her own responsibilities, mainly timely decisions and prompt payment. He is liberal with praise and tactful but not silent with criticism.
We often do a lot of design/build work which can be highly stressful for all parties involved. I always tell the client that if we are not having fun, something is wrong. Building a house is difficult but it should also be an exciting adventure. If you are not a great client, it probably won't be.
I think this is kind of a no brainer...
You get more bees with honey and all that crap.
I'll tell the truth...no problem. Down to earth, open minded, easy to work with type folks get all that I can possibly give them for the money they are spending, and usually a little more. Folks who try to hammer every nickel out of you get what's in the contract and not a single thing more. I'll charge 'em for every screw, outlet, foot of molding, whatever, that goes into their project and wasn't covered under the contract and be sure and hold on the P&O associated with anything that gets taken out...per the contract....to the letter.
It all boils down to attitude. Attitudes are infectious. Good attitudes from customers gives me a good attitude. When I have a positive, light-hearted attitude, my guys and my subs catch it too. Good moods always make for more productive environments. Happy homeowners make happy workers. Happy workers do happy work. Happy work makes happy homeowners.....
I think with remodeling in particular, a good client will get better quality work. I've not been doing remodel work for very long, but a client with a stingy, bad attitude, or miserable work environment (read: home environment) will get a much "quicker" job. My first job remodeling made me want to go back to new home construction. The lady of the house was absolutely hateful to her children and would greet us every morning cursing at their barking dog.
Different industry, but similar client/supplier relationships.
Bad clients will get the same quality of product that the good clients get, but not the same level of service. Human nature, I think.
We've had nightmare clients that no matter what you do, it's not enough. You get to a point where you only do what's contractually required for them, since it doesn't make a difference in the end.
Good clients, though, ones that work with you and not against you, well, they make you want to do better work for them, and we go above and beyond to serve them.
A good question to ask these guys would be: what makes a good client vs. a bad client?
Leigh
I do a lot of small-scale renovation and there's no doubt that in this field a pleasant, friendly client that doesn't interrupt the process too often gets great work while others get very good work but maybe not the same level of attention to details.
Here's an interesting twist. Sometimes we run across unbelievable clients, not just good. These are the folks who cook big home made lunches for the carpenter(s), drinks in the afternoon, chitchat in the morning. Do these people get even better work than good clients do or does the attention to detail start to fall off if the crew gets too used to the lap of luxury?
Maybe none of you all suffer from this problem ;)
Jeff Thiessen Renovation and Building, Cartwright, Manitoba
I must , as a 12 year veteran of home repair, say that the "better client" is even
worth getting out of bed for on a cold night. ( even if it's not my fault)
With out a doubt!
In February we finished a master suite addition for an excellent customer.
He is an insurance agent/owner and a NFL referee.
Great guy full of good stories.
His wife is is half owner of a local lumber yard(not the one we use the most but they wanted US to do the work).
Every day she would put out a fresh brewed pot of coffee with cups and stirrers and spoons and sugar and a little thing of creamer stting on a bag of ice to keep it cool.
And COOKIES!!!
Home made, always at least 3-4 kinds.
Sometimes though she would just get Krispys cremes!!!
We all gained 5 pounds on that job.
and it did take a little longer than it should.
BUT
we were very happy to go the extra mile for them.
The boss and PM lost control of all the changes and extras, but us carpenters made sure they got what they wanted and it was done right.
We always TRY to do our best, but with customers like these even the PITA stuff wasn't so bad and they got a showcase mastersuite.
Mr T
Happiness is a cold wet nose
Life is is never to busy to stop and pet the Doggies!!
As has been said, great clients get great service...way above and beyond. And they usually turn into friends.
OTOH, bad clients still get great houses. It's funny you should post this. I'm getting two, back to back, and next door to each other. I think they're just going to get a job. I know my attention span will grow quite short after the one year punch list...which will probably be a doozey. Don't worry, we can fix that later!
May I chime in, even if I am a HO?
Yesterday I was hacking at the weeds that are growing like, well, weeds by the concrete porches and someone came by as I was 1/2 thru that I needed to attend to, so left the tool laying there.
When I came back, the rest of the weeds were gone!
The very, very nice painter had taken a minute from staining the porch cedar posts and finished it for me during his break. And it was 99F too!
He has been doing a great job and I have repeatedly mentioned it, as have others that have come by to look at the house.
He really, as you say, has gone "way above and beyond" with those weeds.
I think that some people are just VERY nice.<G>
Ruth,
All good points by other forum members. Now, one or two of my own:
1. This is a very personal business, especially remodelling. When you buy a car, the dealer and his staff don't ride around in it with you for 3-6 months.
2. It's your home that is being invaded. Where you nurture your children, argue with your spouse and figure out how to pay your bills. Who are these people in your home? Heck, I don't want my relatives around for as long as a kitchen remodel takes.
3. It's very costly. Sometimes more than anticipated. This can lead to homeowners feeling that they need not be gracious to the 'help'. They're financially stretched and frustrated.
4. Those homeowners who can deal with these issues, and remain gracious, put on a pot of cofee, etc. will always get better service than those who can't.
Every experienced builder has positive and negative stories about past clients. How they were treated and how they treated the client. In my experience, nice works best for the client; and I try to be family oriented in their home (no profanity, no Howard Stern on the radio, and so on).
skipj
Anyone ever had a good client, that was completly insane? One minute they are praising you and giving bonuses, and then the next telling you that was not what they had in mind. I still do small jobs a few hours here and there for this person, but man, I would not want to be working full time up at that place day in and day out. Well paid and mostly positive, but whoa...can you say nutso?
Jason
Ditto what others have said, plus this:
Even though a truly conscientious remodeler will do a good job for the client who behaves poorly during the project, that client will not appreciate the finished product as much. Partly this is because people who cannot appreciate the worker also cannot appreciate the work. I believe it is also true that a snarky customer who makes life unpleasant for the tradesmen on his/her project carries a subconscious guilt for their bad behavior, and this invisible guilt impedes the enjoyment of the resulting work.
I have been blessed with many wonderful clients, and have seen firsthand how much they are able to enjoy the process and the results. Happy people treat others well, and they enjoy life more.
Too much familiarity with the contractor also leads to problems. Part of our professionalism lies in respecting the boundaries that need to exist between the homeowner and the builders, even (especially!) when they are already friends. When your home is under renovation, you are vulnerable, and the builder needs to balance the need for reassurance with the need for non-intrusion while in the home.
In conclusion, I agree with those who have already stated that remodeling is especially tricky. A cheerful attitude and a practical grasp of basic psychology are definite pluses. Put yourself in your customers' shoes, and you will attract customers who return the favor.
Bill