Bought a log cabin in the TN Smokies last month. Went down this past week and noticed the toilet bowl water was a yellow brown. Figured it was cuz place was sittin idle a few months so cleaned it and 2 days later it was back. Water occasionally had a slight musty smell to it, only the hot water, though. No sulfur smell.
Had my water tested and was told there is no bacteria in it. The pH is 6.5 which I was told was good but more acidity should be removed still. Was told my water is soft also. The iron (ferrous) tested at 1ppm.
I was told the iron takes about 1 to 2 days to oxidize due to the water being soft water and that that is the source of the yellow brown stains. I installed a brand new dishwasher and washing machine and told that the iron will shorten the life of those units and that a water filter (looks like a big torpedo) is what is needed with a backwash (self cleaning) timer installed and that it’ll rid me of the iron and make the pesky stains go away and provide sparkling clean water.
Opinions? the water system costs $1695 installed including taxes, parts and labor.
Replies
The persons that suggested the $1600 torpedo fix....were they also the people who tested the water?
If yes, one has to ask "Are they feathering their own nest!?"
Every let a vacuum salesman in your house?....HIS sweeper always sucks up sooo much stuff out of your "clean carpet"...gotta buy that incredible $600 vac!
Truth of the matter is that you could probably demonstrate the same thing with your current vac!
Buy an independent analysis...via a real laboratory/testing service. Ask for total suspended sediments, which the other people probably didn't test for. And 1ppm dissolved iron does not sound high enough to cause the bowl coloration.
Color could be from fine clay sediments accumulating in the well pit while there is little or no water consumption during your absence. Does it also coat the bottom of the tank, where it has accummulated and could be washing into the bowl with each flush when you return to the cabin.
Purchase from a big box or local builders supply a basic ($40-60) in-line cartridge sediment filter, install and see if this cures your problem....could save you $1600.
Be wary of strangers bearing gifts.....do some more investigation before opening your wallet.
.............Iron Helix
The person who tested the water is also the installer. I'm not trying to be dumb, but I guess maybe I was. He showed me the test, though, it seemed right to me compared to the color chart. Also he was trying to sell me an ultraviolet light to kill bacteria but said the bacteria test would take two days. The test result came back and it showed no bacteria. He could've made $600 more off me but did not. Am I dumb? I makes me think if he was out to feather his nest that he had another opportunity to do so with the light.
Additionally he had a secondary system that did an automatic backwash and it was $2600 system. When I told him I'm short on cash, he came back and recommended the $1695 unit, he could have pushed for the higher one still.
UGGGhhhh
Not all salesmen are shysters!
Many are zealous about their good products, but often bypass the simple solutions.
I bought into a pool water system that I and the salesman thought was the cats meow!
The yearly start up requires 8 to 10 bags of a "special" mix of chemicals @ $20/bag and a weekly 4 # bag of booster @ $12...but no chlorine ever!
I became curious about the actual contents of the pool additives and I had resources for having chemical analysis run. Now the chemicals are bought at a farm supply for $4 a bag. Saves $160+ on start-up and $8 a week for the 20 week swimming season.
Was I dumb...no, just ignorant. Ignorance is cured with education and the facts.
Sounds like you have some respect for the salesman...follow your gut! And get some facts about what is going on with your water.
Is this the same cabin that had all sorts of problems that you posted about some months back?
...................Iron Helix
Iron,
Yes this is the same cabin. I wouldn't necessarily call my past post "problems" per se. The water smells fine, occasional musty smell, that's it. It sat for a few weeks unused, must've been the source of the "sulphur" smell I previuosly posted about.
I did some plumbing work at the cabin last week, water lines looked clean but the drain lines, yeeesscccchhh, yucky. The prior HO who did the work did a shoddy job. Water supply lines not well supported (all CPVC) and drain line sagging midpoint, stuff like that makes me wanna ask the HO who he thinks he is to build a nice house and put in a crappy system.
DW says...."Give a man a stick, golf club, baseball bat, fishing pole, water pipe or 2x4 and he will find a way to do something with it that he feels is great and then beat his chest about it. And when he comes to bed he thinks he is still good with a stick......in most cases it is only a small ego at work. Ignorance is bliss!"
Ouch!...but sort of fits what you say about the HO efforts as being a builder!
.........Iron Helix
The inside of the water tank was the same rusty brown as the toilet bowl.
I do not plan on living in the house. It is a vacation property which I am going to have on a rental program. It was previously a rental cabin when I purchased it, I am merely continuing it as an overnight/nightly rental in the Smokies.
I had the same issue with iron in the water staining fixtures. Had some water treatment companies come in to bid out correcting this and an acidic water condition (ph too low). Bids were anywhere from about $2400 to $3000. I ended up getting a unit to correct the ph on-line and installed it myself. Piece of cake if you have some basic plumbing skills totel cost for this part $650. I also bought the unit to correct the iron condition. Before i installed it though, I did some research and found that there are two types of iron. For the sake of simplicity, I'll call them 1.) the type that you can filter out and 2.) the type that requires an ion exchange (read iron treatment unit). As a test to see if the iron would filter out I poured some water through a brita filter. Voila iron gone. So instead of installing the iron filtration unit which included a saline backwash unit, I simply installed a whole house water filter as suggested in the earlier post. Problem solved. Total investment in iron treatment, $60. I change the filter about every 4 months just because I figure that they must be getting craped up by that point. They probably could go longer since I don't detect any loss of water pressure or staining, but I figure for about $15.00 a filter what the hell. Much easier to maintain than a full unit, no sodium added to the water, takes up less space, etc...
The moral of the story is that you may be able to get away with a much simpler, less expensive solution to your iron problem. If nothing else, it's a $60 gamble and about an hour to hook it up (dirt simple).
Good luck.
rk
A couple of questions.
Is this going to be a weekend cabin or are you going to live in it?
Are you now drinking city water?
If your not going to live in it, leave it like it is. The cost of putting in such a system would out weigh the amount of usage of it. Especially if it is a system that you have to maintain your self, such as softener systems using salt. If the stain in the toilet is what is bothering you then put one of those blue cake things in the tank.
Run your water for a few minutes to clean what has settled in the system. Your normal usage of the water will pretty much keep it clean after that.
It sounds like you don't have any lime in your water if it is as soft as you say that it tested. Lime is worse then iron could ever be. It will clog up even pvc pipe over time.
If you live in the city then what your doing is bring your city ways with you to the county. Didn't you buy this place in order to get away from the city? If drinking that iron bothers you there is a filter that you can screw right on the end of your kitchen sink facit that does a pretty good job.
Your body needs iron any way. I do believe that it is much easier to drink it then to chew on a piece of rebar like it was beef jerky.
I live about 140 miles north east of the Smokies and have been drinking that kind of water for many many years. My normal usage keeps the system cleaned out and I run a brush around the toilet once in a while. Welllllllll once or twice a year any ways. If I have been gone from home for an extended period of time, I turn on the water and let it run until it clears up, when I do get home. Then after that it is fine.
To me that city water has a nasty smell and taste to it.
I hope that you enjoy being in the country. Spend your money on the attractions at Gatlinburg instead of buying something that will give you head aches in the future. After all were is all of that filtered out iron going to go? It doesn't just disappear.
Dane
I will always be a beginner as I am always learning.
Do you REALLY NEED a filtration system?? No.
The question is, will you be happier with the system or the money?
You've already gotten some good suggestions here IMO and I'll also recommend that if this water test was not from an independent lab, getting such a test would be my next move. And/or........talk to the local well drillers in this area. Odds are they have a good handle on what type of "stuff" is likely present in the local sources.
You may also have tannins in the water supply. Try running a white 5 gallon bucket full of water. Does it look cloudy or clear? If cloudy, the water is turbid (it has floating suspended particulants). These could be from tannins (decaying plant matter) and/or from suspended clay or dirt particles (as previously mentioned) and/or from other sources...like that ferrous iron (unfilterable iron that is in suspension). Filtration would be necessary to remove the particulants. A backwashing filter-sand unit would probably do the deed for that stuff, but to remove the ferrous iron (if that's what you have) would require a pre-treatment to convert the stuff to a particulant that can be filtered. Couple different ways to do that. Chlorinate the well and then the same simple filter-sand backwashing unit will remove the now "ferric" iron.......or forego well chlorination and install a green sand filter unit. Potassium permanganate is the "activator/oxidizer" here and the unit regenerates itself with that PP. Either of the above methods to convert the iron and remove it are a bit of a hassle and an expense, but you'll have to bite the bullet if you want to remove the iron.
I'd be getting a comprehensive test and/or talking with your local well guys before deciding on which if any approach(es) to take. While they're testing the water......make sure to get a heavy metals test. High arsenic concentrations are not your friend. 10 PPB (parts per billion) is the new established limit on that. The map link here shows no high arsenic levels for our NW Illinois area at all, but local wells contain 50 ppb, so we have to filter that out. After proper treatment and filtration, ours is now 3.4 ppb.
http://water.usgs.gov/nawqa/trace/arsenic/
I'd also recommend getting nitrate and nitrite tests done. Remember that you are now your own water department. If you don't do it, it doesn't get done.
Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Edited 4/12/2005 11:30 am ET by GOLDHILLER