I’ve been reading some articles and books about roofing, and had a question to post here. When I say “roofing” I’m referring to asphalt shingles, not wood or slate. In some of the things I’ve read I get the idea that some people still hand nail the shingles. I can seen that it might be easier to hand nail things like drip edge or flashing, but what about the shingles? It seems as though a nailer would be so much faster. Is there any advantage to nailing by hand other than cost?
If air-nailing is better, at what point do you feel the cost is justified in purchasing a nailer? I mean, how much roofing work would I have to do to justify the expense?
Also, if hand nailing is still preferred, or necessary for some applications, is a roofing hammer a wise purchase, or a standard hammer okay? It seems that the hammers with the spacing gauge are popular.
Replies
Usually the only hand-nailing on comp that I see is on the exposed overhangs, where ya gotta use shorter nails so they don't blow through and show.
you can hand nail,it's as good or better than air,but its slower.
do you have a compressor? if so i would buy a nail gun and sell it on ebay when i was done.it will cost you some money for nailer and nails over hand nailing.
the hammer with the spacing gauge is more useful on plain 3 tab versus architectial shingles. i just threw 2 away a couple weeks ago.
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
"the spacing gauge is more useful on plain 3 tab versus architectial shingles."Hmmm....I'm more likely to use the gauge with the archies.
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Can't say I've ever had a problem with over-penetration or pounding the nail all the way through the shingle when I hand nailed which are 2 common problems with using air nails for roofing.
as for cost & ROI for a compressor and the guns that's going to be math based on your own operation and overhead.
When I did do roofs, which I don't anymore, I preferred a roofing hatchet, it was easier to move shingles around with it than my 22oz straight claw Eswing.
I bought a used gun to do a square and a half and never looked back. The $75 I spent wasn't worth one sore thumb. (and I always seemed to hit it once hand nailing)
Since then I have used the gun a couple more times and that was all gravy.
Some will argue it's better to handnail on an old roof over old sheathing so you can "feel" if the nails catch. I think it's better to just know the structure and gun nail away. I'm not a roofer and don't hope to ever be a roofer so I bought a used Porter Cable coil roofing gun many years ago and it still won't die.
I think I paid $75 for it. Hoped it would last though one 17 sq roof, it did, and it still won't die. Vic
We seldom hand nail anymore and I actually prefer my guys to use guns vs. hand nailing. When hand nailing, there's a tendancy to skip a nail here and there, especially when one has to lift a shingle to nail. With a gun, the tendancy is to over nail, which I prefer to under nailing.
Back in my prime, I could hand nail as fast as someone with a gun for one day. The next day, I'd be tired and the guy with the gun would still be fresh.
For small jobs and repairs, the compressor usually doesn't come out.
If you've already got the air supply and hoses, get a gun. There's probably lots of used ones for sale right now.
is a roofing hammer a wise purchase, or a standard hammer okay?
I prefer a roofing hatchet, but I've put on lots of shingles with a framing hammer. The hatchet has a larger head so you're less likely to miss the nail. The main thing to remember about hand nailing is not to use your thumb for nail holding. Hold the nails between your 1st two fingers with your palm open toward your face. Hurts a lot less when you get skin instead of nail.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
dpbellus,
I hand nail quite a bit------- but generally not the entire roof
I will hand nail drip edge-just tacking it in place-usually with just 3 nails---it gets nailed off later with a gun
any metal that gets nailed--usually gets hand nailed
I like to establish the stail step pattern myself---and I usually hand nail that while my other guys are running the field with guns
you can hand nail up under eaves with the SIDE of a hammer-into tighter places than you can get a gun
sometimes when working with a crew I will work all day and never touch a gun--which drives them crazy
Also----on repairs up to about 2 bundles-- I usually just hand nail it.
for the past few years I have constantly re-evaluted going back to ALL ROOFS HAND NAILED---as a marketing tactic
problem is---- workers with any roofing experience resist that
AND-- the economics of it are that a hand nailing crew--- you need MORE workers--they need to work at lower wages---and YOUR selling price needs to be higher
hand nailing on older homes--dictates a larger crew---and locks you into a certain volume of work needed to keep the system working
gun nailing-allows a smaller crew with a much more flexible schedule.
stephen
Time saved is the major reason for using a pneumatic. I have never seen a roof done better with a gun than by hand. The gun is also handy for cold weather work. Finger saver.
when you hand nail, it is easier to be accurate with nail placement and this is critical. Get those nails too high and the wind has more fun playing with the shingles.
Also, when shingling over old sheathing, you can tell when you hit bad unsound material if you are hand nailing and can more over and up an inch and set another one, When using the gun, you don't even know you hit an airhole.
One roof can pay for the time saved if you are not good at fingering nails out and slamming them home with a roof hatchet.
An advantage of the roof hatchets vs reg hammer is that the larger head is less likely to damage cold shingles. Also, the blade can be used to pick up a loose shingle or flip the end of a previous one to nail under it.
I laid my first shingle in about '68 or '69. Only just bought a gun about three years ago. Still hand nail some.
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The coil nails used with guns are better.
I bought some hot dipped galvanized nails for the coil gun and they have good galvanization and an extra bit of metal under the base of the head to make the head stronger and stand up to the air hammer.
All the hand nails seem to be junk. They are either electro galvanized or really lousy hot dipped ones.
My house had two trees hit it from Hurricane Ike.
As I was doing the repair, I noticed that the nail heads on almost all the shingles I pulled off were gone. The only thing holding the shingles on was basically the glue strip at the bottom, and the shingle weight. Almost all the nails were now headless and were essentially just pinning the shingles in place. Since the shingles were pinned, you wouldn't notice this walking on the roof.
There are at least two roofing companies in my county that hand nail. One does everything overkill and when I called them for an estimate following hurricane ike they were four months behind before the hurricane. The other company, who I am getting to do my roof, seem to use it as an advertising(sales) pitch. But they seem to be also very conscientious. They said they didn't have any of their roofs peel off from the hurricane. It was a very good selling point to me, but yes these two companies are higher than most in this area. On another point, I did see several new dimensional shingled roofs peel off after the storm leaving the nails etc. Everybody assumes these were overdriven with a nail gun to begin with. If I was just doing one(my own) roof and that was it I would just hand nail. It is just a small part of the overall time requirement anyway. Yes, I have done about four roofs in my lifetime (56years).
sounds like you got sold!
got sold a good job!
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I like to hand nail when I'm fiddling around in corners or valleys where I'm cutting every shingle. In those situations I'm generally working alone, and the gun is just in the way. But give me a decent open run of shingles and I'll take the gun any time.
Sometimes I lie awake at night and ask why me? Then a voice answers nothing personal, your name just happened to come up. [Charles Schulz]
Don't you love it when it is sold and swallowed hook line and sinker!
I am confused??? Everything else being equal, not saying that it is, wouldn't you prefer a roofing company that handnails? Let us assume they are smart enough that they would know how to hook up and use compressors and nail guns. I agree there are many other important points in the equation. In my case it was things like quality of drip edge, how are you going to treat the flashing around the chimney, how are you going to replace three tabs with dimensionals at the sidewalls where they put the siding tight against the roof, are you going to use the ladder or step method laying the dimensionals on the roof and are you going to be careful and not mare my cedar siding with black marks tearing off the old roof. But handnailing, along with being a good thing, makes me feel in all likelyhood they will get most of the other right. Let's hope so anyway. Tony
Looks good on paper, doesn't really play out that way in the real world.
A good shingler is a good shingler and a corner cutter is just that no matter what weapon they have in their hand.
The hand nailer is going to be more fatigued toward the end of the day and might start using 3 nails per shingle vs. four where it takes little more effort to shoot 6 nails in that same shingle with a gun.
In doing repairs or tearing off, I seldom see a gun nailed roof short nailed. I often find missing nails if it's hand nailed, especially if they racked the shingles vertically. They don't like to lift that tab up to drive the fourth nail in every other course.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Now you have got me worried about the handnailing. Along with the rest of the list, I will have to watch them on that also. As a fellow kentuckian Hi (see profile) and admire your quality work. There are no quality copper tinners in this area that I know of. My roofer wants to wrap the chimney counterflashing(which I think is stainless) with a peel and stick. Have you seen that one and what is the life expectancy. Thanks Tony
Do not allow them to use peal and stick, that is temporary at best.
I had my roof done last year and the roofers tried to get away with that. In fact there was perfectly good counter flashing already in place, copper, that tey removed, I had a heart attack. I ended up telling them to remove themselves from my property if they didn't flash the chimney properly.
The proper material is metal. Should be copper, but I have accepted aluminum.
My roofer wants to wrap the chimney counterflashing(which I think is stainless) with a peel and stick. Have you seen that one and what is the life expectancy.
Well, hello from Central KY. Sorry I don't know anybody around Owensboro, but there's got to be someone there capable of flashing a chimney properly.
You've got to be kidding me on the peel & seal. It'll work for a while, but makes a mess on the brick. There's lots of shinglers around here that don't flash - we do it for them. I've never understood that concept - I think it's not so much learning a new skill set as it is investing money in the proper tools. I don't think I'd let that guy put the peal & seal on the chimney, but that doesn't mean he's not a good shingler.
Call a local GC or two and see if you can get a referral on a flashing cat from one of them. We don't advertise locally (just the website), but work on referral.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Thanks guys. I will drill him hard on that issue. I haven't gotten contractors much on work up until now with hurricane ike. It seems the less you know the smoother things go. I did argue about the flashing but they keep going back to that is how they do it and been successful for 25 years with all satisfied customers etc. One point, it is $20/ft. and $280 dollars with my chimney. Might be some easy money? Thanks again.
One point, it is $20/ft. and $280 dollars with my chimney.
Bwahaha. We do copper for a little less than twice that. A drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things. The flashings ought to outlast the roof.
Tell him to get someone who knows how to flash a chimney or get the hell off the roof. http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Oh - one more thing: 99 out of 100 roofers use the proper materials to flash with. Either he's a genius or an idiot.
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Edited 12/8/2008 2:16 pm ET by seeyou
Personally, I wouldn't hire a roofer who is NOT proficient at flashing. Part and parcel of the job, IMO.
I agree, but judging by some of the work I have had to redo, somebody doesn't.
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avalanche,
my experience with hand nailing crews is quite different than Grants--------- personally, i started out hand nailing--and the first crew I subbed big jobs out to hand nailed.
the condensed version of the economics of it were-that the hand nailing crews were bigger--and each member was paid somewhat less. ALL of our work was /is old house tear-off 2-3 layers and then replace bad wood and re-roof and clean-upthe actual installation of the shingles was maybe 1/3 of the working time of the day.
compared to a gun crew-the actuall workers were LESS tired( many hands make light work)-more workers meant MORE hands involved in the tear off--so each guy tore off less( thatand the clean up is what is the really tiring part)--and more guys meant less shingles laid per man----the typical work day was 5-1/2 to 6 hours per day-and the boss bought lunch EACH day--the guys were paid by the day the gun crews---have been smaller-the work day longer--and each guy got paid more---but it is grinding hard work the hand nailers were usually done by 2:00 for the day-and a lot of them went fishing in the afternoons-average age of the crew members was somewhat younger as well.
stephen
Edited 12/9/2008 8:23 am ET by Hazlett
You are vastly over-generalizing on the quality of nails. My experience is opposite - the gun nails are far more prone to losing their heads.
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Best of luck to anyone trying to find hot dipped galvanized gun nails for a roofing gun.
Yes- I believe MAZE makes them---no one carries them---you have to order them----the price i think was FOUR times regular gun nails===plus the shipping. Of course--hot dipped galvanized hand nails are almost impossible to source locally here as well( I have to drive 30 minutes to the ONE place I know that carries them. Interesting thing about a roofing hatchet head( I know YOU know this--but most people have never used one)---the face is probably 3 times the size of a hammer head face--and it is convex shaped which doesn't dameage the shingles-and lets you hit the nail square from a MUCH wider range of angles than most hammers. one thing about hand nailing---from a marketing standpoint it would be VERY easy to develope a reputation for being absolutely INSANE about quality if your crew is hand nailing--any other potential competitor is going to be completely on the defensive quality wise if they have to market against a hand nailing crew---of course the hand nailing crew can't possibly compete COST-WISE.this spring might be an excellent time for me to go back to hand nailing----economy in the dumper----PLENTY of available workers----------the only customers will be those with solid financials who can totally afford to pick and choosean INSANE marketing stunt like hand nailing might take off this spring.
stephen
It might, if you could find insane workers willing to attempt it!
Yes, Steve, I learned by hand nailing. I still believe that I can do a great job with a gun, continueously. Of course, that would mean I would have to drag my fat .... up onto a roof, not going to happen anymore.
frammer-- funny you mentioned insane workers willing to do it.
I wan't going to mention this untill spring.
Last week i read an article in our local paper about a guyguy had a good job as a fireman----felt a calling-quit his job and moved his family into a nearby neighborhood- let's be polite and call it in transition.- anyhow-- for the last few years he is operating a street ministry---plenty of un-employed/underemployed men in his neighborhhod( in my city the average houshold income is $33,500---and in THAT neighborhood much less)talked to the guy and his wife last week--we may help each others efforts out-- he is trying to find work for people----a job on the books that starts at $10-12/hour in April and could be paying $20/hour by october--is a very good job to some people-especially in that neighborhoodmost people wouldn't be interested in working this hard---but SOME people would find it a pretty good opportunity.
stephen
Hazlett,
Are you the same Hazlett that's written articles in the magazine? If I remember correctly you are from Akron? If so, thanks for the articles they were well written and helpful to me. And hello from a fellow Ohioan, I live in Medina.
I was hoping you would check out my post regarding the JCHAmmer. It seems like a good tool, but I'm somewhat of a skeptic. Looks like it would be handy for roofing nails and the plastic cap nails that hold felt, maybe for housewrap also. I don't own a cap nailer or a roofing nailer. I am not in the construction trades, but I'm planning on doing some roofing sidework next summer helping some friends and family. No one owns a roofing gun, so I'm trying to see if I can make the hand nailing easier. I already have a wood handled AJC hammer, it's steel not titanium, with a wood handle. Having used both, do you think the Estwing is any better, or is it simply personal preference?
I guess I just can't decide if I should stick with what I have or would a different hammer or a nailer be worth looking into???
dpbellus,
good to hear from you Medina is about as far west as I go( Kent as far east, north canton as far south and peninsula as far north)the ajc hatchet you have is an excellent tool-they have quite a few slightly different models---all specifically designed for production hand nailing. the AJC company is a local company-owned by a branch of the Crookston family that owns CC supply in Barberton,akron and seville----the crookstons that I have known personally for over 20 years are extremely high quality folks-----extraordinarily family oriented and religous--the steel ajc hatchet will work great for youthe Estwing hatchet is the one I started out on--it is almost indestuctible--although I DID break my fist one after about 12 years of use-having bought it from Hartville Hardware--they simply replaced the 12 year old hatchet, no questions asked with a similar new model on any given day I will usually use at least 3 different hammers/hatchets- I start out with a claw hammer on tear-off/demo---once installation begins I switch to the titanium AJC---any repair work or when removing old chimney flashing and when installing NEw flashing on chimneys-- I use the ESTWING-- it tolerates outright abuse quite well Frankly,--if you are simply doing sidework--the AJC you already have is MORE than sufficient.- be very,VERY carefull of that razor blade on the end of the hatchet coming back at your eye----and the gauge probably won't help you as much as snapping chalklines every 2nd course
Enjoy!
Stephen
Yes Steve, there are some people that may work at a price that could afford you to hire them to hand nail. The problem as I see it, is the ultimate unfordability of this.
I too live in a "transitional neighborhood", I don't find any number of people that are willing to work, much less, for undermarket wages.
In fact, I find that people in this neighborhood feal they are "owed" jobs at above market rates.
frammer--- I think terms like un-affordability and undermarket wages-are less than accurate let's look at un-affordability an air compressor a couple of guns and some air hose--allows myself and one helper to do one particular house( complete tear-off) in 4 days for a specific price( my current price)Using 4 men hand nailing--we can do the same house in 2 very short days---for about $1200 less--it's actually MORE affordable to the homeowner( however I would have to sell roughly TWICE as many roofs to net the same As far as undermarket wages-- I don't think that's accurate--lets say you have a 19 year old son of a single mother in a "transitional neighborhood"--- he may be VERY lucky to simply have a job at McDonalds--20 hours a week or less and at minimum wageIf he is willing to WORK- he could start with me at 10-12 dollars/hour and if he works and produces---it's ENTIRELY feasible that by the end of the work season he is making $18-20/hour-- PLUS he collects un-employment through the winterAND he has learned the very basics of the trade- he is able to do side jobs etc.,AND he has aquired his basic handtools/gear-----in fact he has probably become the top earner in his household. In less than a year he has gone from working for cigarette and beer money at McD's-to single handedly bringing home roughly 50% of the median household income in my city.
within 2-3 years he could own his own home,operate his own small business--it's actually a pretty good option for the right type of guys( I did OK by it!)by the way--MY neighborhood isn't what i would call transitional--to many cops,firemen,nurses,schoolteachers etc.--the neighborhood i was refering to is about 6 minutes away also BTW-- that first hand nailing crew I used years ago--a lot of those younger guys did pretty well for themselves-at least 2 are in their own roofing business,one went to work for the phone company,one is a painter and one works for the railroad---as you know, spend a couple summers roofing---and EVERY job later in life seems pretty easy in comparison,LOL
stephen
I got tennis elbow nailing roofs. My EX had a fit when I came home with a $ 400 hitachi, I told her to follow me for 10 minutes on a steep roof and nail by hand. My currernt wife owns dozen building lots in town and we are currently building a duplex. (she does great tile work) . I said it would be a lot faster if I had a 5 beam laser. and she said which one do you want.
and she said which one
Doesn't that make you happy?
My curent wife goes to the store with me and asks which tools I want!
Durn I'm spoiled!
Edited 12/13/2008 8:12 pm ET by frammer52
my wife-du-jour could care less what tools i buy.....but i stole her 16 oz. plumb back in '74 and never gave it back to her
she did all the WC shingles on our first houseMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
In reality, my wife doesn't care either, as long as bills are paid, and she has some to spend.
we always special order Maize Hot dipped gun nails when we get a fiber cement siding job
think i have 3 boxes on hand nowMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I looked into using them last january/feruary--my supplier told me i would have to order a skid of them-----each box was only about HALF the size of a box of regular coil nails--and like 4 times the cost of the generic coil nails the supplier prefers to sell us PLUS shippingso- on a FC siding job you want to last 100 years--probably smart money--a roofing job with 30 year dimensionals---even the chineese generics will last long enough in that application If I HAD gone with the MAIZE nails--it would strictly have been as a marketing decision----and had nothing to do with the utility of the choice same with the hand nailing---I can make an excellent case either side of hand nailing vs. gun nailing---so if I DO go back to hand nailing it will be as part of an overall marketing strategy simply to be DIFFERENT than the 179 OTHER roofing contractors in the local yellow pages( by actual count)---
stephen
stephen.... reminds me of another thingaround here we get a lot of tool stores and specialty stores that have traveling salesmen working out of vansthere used to be a fastener company.... that had the market pretty much sewed up... they stocked every gun nail made and had about three vans on the roadanyways.... the owner lost interest and the business went to the dogs i think at least two of his employees opened similar businessesI have one i like... he's on my cell phone as " Harry Nails "... gets me anything i want ... fast.. and delivers.... i don't use him as much as i should because i buy most of my gun nails from eithe my lumber yard or my tool store...
but if i were roofing ... or framing.... i'd probably switch most of my busiess over to him... including all my gun repairsthe Maize Nails reminded me... because if i want Maize ... i just call him up and they appear about a week later i could buy them direct from maize too... but Harry is more convenient.. and Harry don't care if it's one box or a pallet... neither does Maize if i remember correctlyMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 12/9/2008 2:10 pm ET by MikeSmith
mike-when I had a Paslode gun- It ONLY liked paslode nails-everything else wanted to jam----I tried a few specialty places for those because most places here didn't carry paslode roofing nails( the actual boxes were excellent- I still have a few around hear as file boxes, I think)but-- with Bostich guns i can run any piece of cruddy cheap nails through them with impunity----can often get a box for $22 and typically $30 or so I should re-check this though,because I have to drive 30 minutes or so to get HD galv. hand nails.
stephen
when Barry was doing a lot of our roofing, he insisted on Paslode nails... and they were superior... no doubt
but for asphalt roofs.... my subs can use anything they want .. as long as it's a nail.. and the correct length
all our roofing guns are Bostich now... still have an Hitachi... works good
and we bought a Max because it was the only one i could find would shoot a 1 3/4" Hot Dipped Galv.....
View Image
Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 12/10/2008 9:04 am ET by MikeSmith
When does this head loosing occur?I'm talking almost all the heads were gone. I never had any nail head come off when I hand nailed them or air nailed them.Because of this,I believed the nail heads came off later, due to corrosion at the base of the head. Every once and awhile, I would find a nail head.Bear in mind, I wasn't re-roofing my house, I merely had to replace a 4 x 8 sheet of plywood where the tree hit. I was in a race to finish before the rains came. The hardest part was blending the new shingles into the old shingles. With a nail gun, it was easy, trying to do that with a hammer is probably no problem for a roofer, but for me it was difficult. The roof was very bouncy because the previous roofers nailed the sheathing on top of occasionaly rotted 1 x4 shingle nailers which were spaced about 8 inches apart. This wasn't as bad where I had put down new 1 x4's but on the old part of the roof, they just threw the sheathing on top of the 1 x4's. The people that owned the house before must have hired morons. Home depot only has electro galvinized roofing nails. I figured, that's why the heads were gone, cheap thin heads with very little galvanizing rusted at the nail head base and failed before the shingles would. The roof is about 15 years old and the shingles still look great, but I doubt the roof will make another hurricane. After all the roofing craze dies down, I will reroof.
"When does this head loosing occur?"two thingsWhen I am using the coil gun, occasionally a head will disappear, so I just throw another nail in the same place immediately. I have had times when 4-5 nails in a row lost heads.
then sometimes when I am replacing shingles, I slide the flat bar under and the head flies off. Almost always with gun nails and I relate it tot he stress of the force driving or removing it.
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i would think it's a question of mfr'g tolerances... some are tighter than others.. the cheapest generic is not as strong as the better brand nameshow do they mfr a roofing nail is the head seperate ? and welded onto the shank ?
when i look at them tat's how it looks for the gun nails i know most nails are mfr'd by a press system... but gun nails look like they have welded heads... so a skimpy weld would failbut i'm just guessing about the mfr'gMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The thing is, the nail head missing to nail head intact ratio was more than 50% in favor of nail heads missing.If the nail heads were popping off like that during installation then the roofers would be really piss poor not to adjust their guns or get some new nails. (Of course, the previous homeowners did seam to have a knack for that, I found 14/3 UF ran on a 20amp breaker in the attic instead of 12/3 NM.)I didn't dream that the heads were popped off from installation, I figured it was due to a corrosion process.None of the nails I drove by hand or air had heads pop off. I figure if I drove an entire roof full of nails, I would see a few heads pop off, but if most of the nail heads were popping off, I would stop and find out what was wrong.
but if most of the nail heads were popping off, I would stop and find out what was wrong.
I've gotten bad coil nails before and due to the driving process, the head usually stays put even though it's not still connected to the shank especially on a walkable roof on a warm day. It may not have been real apparent to the shingler.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
I can tell from your writing that you haven't done that much shingling. It is not uncommon either for nail heads to stay in place after separating or for the fracture to loosen it a day later - nor is it uncommon for shingle layers to be so intent on number of shingles laid that they don't really care to notice, so if the boss provides cheap nails, that ios what they use - as long as they get paid for the job. I hate it, buit there are way too many shingle layers out there like that.
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Thanks for the respones. I'd like to add something else to the discussion. I came across a magnetic faced hammer at jchammer.com. (Sorry, I don't know how to make that a link).
They have a video clip demonstration and the guys nailing seem to be moving along pretty quick. The hammer itself is 16oz and has a smooth face. I thought roofing went better with a heavier, milled face hammer??
Anyway, it seems interesting, has anyone ever used one?
"I thought roofing went better with a heavier, milled face hammer??"16oz is just about right for most.
When you lay over 15 squares a day, that comes to about ten thousand thousand times a day you have to lift that hammer back up again, meaning you lifted five tons with that forearm/wrist.Make it a heavier hammer and you multiply the work by that factor, and slow yourself down to boot. I knew some guys who used a 12.5oz drywall hatchet with a long handle.
By while the handle length helps when you can use the wrist to snap it down if you work above the shingle, most guys work below the shingle and a shorter handle is needed to keep from smacking yourself in the jaw, or ripping an ear off. There was one particular hammer I quit using because it had a cutting blade on it that would catch the brim of my ballcap, yanking my head forwards and pulling me off balance. with a regular hatchet, I have also managed to chip the brim of a hard hat on the same corner.The milled face is better for work on cedar shingles IMO. My composition shingle hatchets were all smooth or I made them nearly so.Back when I was a novice, I learned about hatchet weight. I had been using a rigging axe with short handle, because I saw another guy doing pretty good with one. A new guy on the crew who was really fast laughed at me and it.
Then after a day or two, he explained about all that weight slowing me down, and helped me pick out a new one. Within a week, I was laying almost another two squares a day, and less sore in the arm.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
piffen------ I used to use an ESTWING steel hatchet--wore out one of them-and halfway though a second one.I currently use a wood handled AJC titanium headed hatchet--very sweet--elbow problem gone.
as you know----we are usually popping the nail in with our wrist--not the elbow/shoulder---and we need a short handle for that--very different motion than driving framing nails.
I cut shingles with a hook blade--and remove the sharp blade from my hatchets---i do NOT like seeing that sharp blade coming back at my face several thousand times per day!.Stephen
It was an AJC that caused me trouble. After some cuts, that straight blade turned into a hook on it's own and that is what would catch the hat brim. But other wise, a very nice hammer. Still have one someplace.right about the wrist. I knew one guy who started with us who was reall muscled up in the upper body, so he would choke up and try to drive all the way from elbow and shoulder, which was fine for the knockout round saturday nite in the alley, but he started having elbow problems until I showed him how to swing a hatchet from the wrist. I actually end up with just about 2-1/2 fingers on the end of the handle with it pivoting in my palm a lot of the time.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
yes-my pinky hangs off the end of the hatchet----usually the next finger also.
the motion-for me is more like "pulling" the nail into the wood rather than pounding it or driving it.
stephen
I am not a professional, but I have shingled three tab asphalt and wooden shingles. I have done it with a hammer, but on average there were two or three of us involved. The air powered shingle "gun" will be considerably faster and, if you are not use to swinging a hammer, a lot easier. One problem I have seen with "guns" is too high an air pressure setting and consequential driving of the nail/staple through the shingle, but this can be seen and remedied. Think of the speed and energy savings of the gun as giving you more time to properly lay out work and answer questions.
From my limited experience and your questions, in offering an suggestion, I am assuming you are doing your own home or helping someone. I would suggest that the special shingling hammer or hatchet for asphalt shingles is not needed. I only used the shingling hatchet on wooden shingle and shake roofs. A spacer stick might help and just the nature of the three tab shingle is a helpful guide. Your far bigger challenge may be to start square and stay square as you move up and across the roof. Is the roof square? Also, the joy of staggered shingling and coming to the roofs edges are concerns. It will show if you get off much--start on the least exposed to the public side of the house :-). I strongly suggest reviewing a few books on the subject and/or have a friend you can really actually trust.
Take care,
Cal