It is slowly sinking in to my thick head that sometimes, it is much smarter to hire the specialist. It runs against my personality to have to admit that somethings I cannot do, but , the reality is I am not perfect. Anytime somebody starts to consider doing it themself, I feel that we should get a real good handle on the motivation. If you are trying to learn a new talent, then fine, learn, but remember that school can be a long experience. If you are trying to prove that you can do something that you have been told can’t be done, tread slowly, maybe it can’t. The big problem comes when you start to think that you are going to save a whole big bunch of money. What about all the time spent, that could have been spent doing whatever it is that you get paid to do. I can safely say that the pro’s can do anything a lot quicker, and normally to a higher standard than somebody who has little experience. If you have lots of time, which I thought that I did, and don’t get paid well, it might work out for you. However, when you can work for the same wages that will hire a pro, then you will make out better doing your specialty and letting them do theirs.
In the example of my house, I will have an awful lot of time in a project that will have taken way to many years, and the only real benefit is the PRIDE of saying yes I did that, with little help or experience. At least if there are problems, I will know who to blame.
I sure have not made wages on this house, but have learned a lot, and hope to be able to do even better next time. BUT I will always wonder what happened to all that money I was going to save!!
Have fun, and stay safe
Dan
Replies
You've made some good points and given exellent advice.
However, doing it your self has some advantages if you approach it right.
First, in any project, plan, plan, and re-plan. Make sure of your proceedures and try to see any problems that you may encounter.
Write the sequence of work down and review it occasionally when you're into the project to see if your logic was correct. This is second nature to the pro's , because they do it for a living everyday.
Don't be afraid to sub out a portion of the project that you don't feel comfortable with. In our on-going remodeling project, I don't lay carpet or vinyl, but I'll do everything else.
Get the tools you'll need. Don't buy cheap crap. If you don't want to keep it after the job, quality stuff is easier to sell.
Do something every day. Don't get disgusted and quit for a week. You'll be amazed at how quickly things get finished if you do this.
Take a break when you need it. Bad decisions and mistakes are usually caused by fatigue and pressure.
Have confidence in yourself. Just remember, most any mistake can be repaired, so don't beat yourself up when you make one. Pro's mak'em all the time.
Too many homeowners think they can do as much as a pro, and fail. Then they call a pro to undo what they did, and fix it right. Why waste the pro's time to fix the non-fix?
I have a neighbor that likes to work on his house. He is a professional landscaper who does very well at his job. His bathroom remodel, however, was a trainwreck. They admired our bathroom with the limestone everywhere, the jacuzzi, the new lighting, the relocated toilet, and asked alot of questions. He and his wife asked me about high quality fixtures, types of tile, etc. before they started. Then they said thanks, we'll call you when it's done.
Two weeks later: They are living in a #### because they had no clue about dust protection, they still have their radiator hooked up in a partially demoed bathroom, and are trying to get the plaster off from behind it, the casings are still attached to the door and window( which they wanted to reuse), there are little dustbunnies of cellulose insulation everywhere. They had no clue about logical construction sequence. They went HD for the $69. toilet.
They had called me to show them how to drain the boiler. Now, if a guy can shut off his water, and half-azz solder a few pipes, why can't he figure out how to drain his boiler?
All of the houses on our block were built by the same guy. They all have the same settling problems. ( The 10 x 10 post supporting the stair framing is at least a couple of inches down from the rest of the house.) I have worked on 3 houses on our block, and know for a fact that they are all leaning over an inch or two in the bathrooms. Mine was almost 1 3/4" out of level and plumb. Any experienced remodeler who takes pride in his work levels and plumbs floors and walls before the rock get's hung. They didn't do that. The toilet is not level. They tried to "level" the tile using thicker and thicker thinset as they neared the low part of the floor. There are also HUGE pie wedge caulk lines.
Then I got a call from them when I was on the golf course. They needed a galvanised cap for something, and wanted me to tell them what size it was. I said look at the pipe and figure it out. They got mad and hung up on me.
They had their walls all opened up, and refused to update their 73 year old wiring due to the cost. It woud have cost maybe $100. in mats.
Needless to say, they are proud of their crapppy job, because they "did it themselves". Now, there is yet another horrible remodeling job perpetrated by a neophyte who should have hired a pro, and maybe asked to be a helper to get some experience.
I'm not ripping on all HO's. I'm just ripping on the ones who have no business even owning a toolbox.
As far as subbing out the parts you don't feel "comfortable" with, a professional counts on simple aspects of a job to be his profit margin. The hard parts of the job are not always the most profitable.
This last spring, we were doing some landscaping ourselves, to beautify the new cedar deck. He had the ballls to tell me " You should have hired us, we're experts".
I realise that homeowners make up half the readership of this great magazine, but it's the professionals that made it as great as it is.
rg
you should of never ask that question about do it yourselfer, because we learn from last week statement that there is " Too many HO on this page" So go get a plastic bag and start picking up the beer can behind the pro's and might learn something.
BB
Wish I'd have taken a photo of the excavation we just did on my old place the past two days. Must have been fifty cases of beer cans burried within all the excavation. Two days and it looks absolutly amazing....over half a dozen heavy equiptment machines running from 7AM till 4:30PM.....Demolished an old addition and moved more dirt around than they did at the World Trade Center (well seemd like that to me....kidding of course).
Its a whole new world here now....sun comes in (not for long) where it didn't before and all the beer cans are crushed and buried. The work was immaculatly orchrastrated...The ground is so much neater and perfect than I bet its been in a hundred or more years. Hundred years of butchers...the first two hundred they had it right....was the last hundred they f'd it up.....
Beer can? We uncovered a hugeeeeeeee water well made of brick and cement that was right in the middle of a trench for a footing/foundation..had to dig it out with the excavator....you shoulda seen the old beer bottles I pulled out as well as Coke bottles.
When my wife got home yesterday her jaw dropped!!!!!
Next is the concrete guys....Monday.....They might have to bury some more beer cans.
Then I start framing.......
Like Zappa's song is called, "Beer Cans On the Moon".
Be bustin' suds
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I dunno, maybe shoulda called in the hazmat team...
;)
Know why that wall was leaning now? LOL.
Excellence is its own reward!
Piff
If anyone knows why walls in old houses lean, I DO! Still kinda shocks me that a house that was so uncared for and F'd with still stands proud. I should only be so lucky when it comes to my body.
Getting one price to see what a framing crew will charge me......I just gotta know!
If its worth my while I'll go that route but kinda doubt I can afford that... plus missin' all the fun ....not to mention some new toys(new nail guns)..lol...I certainly have all the equiptment.
PS..Wanna give me a week after the lumber arrives?
Be well bro
andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, so where's the pictures of all this stuff you're doing?
Joe H
Andy, so where's the pictures of all this stuff you're doing?
Joe,
I actually took lots of pics so far on my non digital camera (afraid I'll F up the shots on my new dig camera..lol).
Pics soon to come no doubt!
Be shot
Andy
In his first interview since the stroke, Ram Dass, 66, spoke with great difficulty about how his brush with death has changed his ideas about aging, and how the recent loss of two old friends, Timothy Leary and Allen Ginsberg, has convinced him that now, more than ever, is the time to ``Be Here Now.''
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
For me, doing it myself isn't about pride, or saving money. I do stuff myself because I like doing stuff. I can't imagine what anyone gets out of spending Saturday shooting 18 holes of golf. That would be one of the inner circles of Hell for me. Give me a pile of quartersawn oak and my tools, and I'm in hog heaven. Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator
" can't imagine what anyone gets out of spending Saturday shooting 18 holes of golf."
Well, for one thing, the guys who kept seeing 68 or 72 on their test scores in school can now bring home little pieces of paper that say 98 or 96 and feel good about it!
LOL
I'm same way. What is the magic in making a little old golf ball disappear?.
Excellence is its own reward!
Andy and all.....when you're driving through a neighborhood and you seen a garage with the door open......what do you think when you see there's nothing in the garage but a car and maybe a lawnmower?
What does that guy do with his spare time, watch TV?
Joe H
I don't know, but I think that guy's closer to normal than me! Anyone else find themselves slightly irritated, say, if they've committed to going to a party and it ends interfering with progress on their house? Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator
"Anyone else find themselves slightly irritated, say, if they've committed to going to a party and it ends interfering with progress on their house?"
Yup. Giving up farming to go to parties also annoys me.
I do stuff on my own for more than one reason. Saving money is sometimes one of them. Sometimes I just don't have the money to do something unless I do it myself.
Not being able to GET a contractor is another. They're all to busy, can't get enough help, don't return phone calls, etc.
Another reason is to get it done the way I want. Even if I explain things carefully, sometimes they just don't get done the way I want them done.
Also - I think I can do some things BETTER than a contractor. For instance - All the trim and wood doors I put in are hand sanded and hand stained. If I had hired a contractor to install doors and trim, he would have wanted to buy prefinished stuff. I like to mess around with the sanding, try to get the stain even, etc. And I can leave the stuff in the shop and finish it as I have time.
Edited 8/14/2003 1:40:58 PM ET by Boss Hog
Well, I have noticed that DW seems to more irritated with delays to my home projects than I am..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
I think mine's gotten used to living in a construction site. Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator
Andy, It's that hole in the floor where a toilet's supposed to be that pisses 'em off the most.
Joe H
"I can't imagine what anyone gets out of spending Saturday shooting 18 holes of golf. "
I agree. I get angry enough already why would I want to be mad a little white ball.
Now fishing, that's relaxing and you can eat what you catch.
I work in large scale construction, mostly in the office, now. I still do HO stuff and enjoy it for the most part. Well, except my last concrete pour. You can read and laugh about it in knots 13454.1
I think that a number of HO do it initially to save money or to keep up with the Jones. More often it seems to be keep up with the Jones. It's going on in my neighborhood right now. Seems everyone has started remodeling right after us. We hired architect and a GC. I'm doing the interior trim and cabinet work.
The neighbors across the street are constantly asking us if we like their remodel and now they are trying to find out every detail and one up us. Whoops, that's not what this thread is about.
I think it's great that people take care of their homes. Lots of research and some practice on mockups is helpful for the DIYer. Be cautious of the Big orange box people. I've heard them more than once give bad/wrong advice. Local building suppliers are usually more knowledgeable.
My dad did a lot of DIY because we were poor. I look back and realize what valuable lessons he gave me.
Len
you don't know what your limits are untill you exceed them! i remember when as a carpenter i first started doing pick-up work. the foreman wanted to keep me employed there because i was a good framer and he would need me in the future. i didn't like pick-up because i wasn't any good at it and complained about it till i got back to the framing. eventually i started getting good at pick-up, and started liking it a lot more. finally i became a pick-up man that did framing untill there was more pick-up to do. most people don't have the patience to become good at what they are not naturally gifted in. i can't agree more with the poster who said plan, plan, and re-plan. even a bad plan is better than no plan, or as a co-worker of mine was fond of saying, "have an idea!" i would be willing to bet that if piffins painting jobs did not look good, or if he rushed it and was not satisfied with the outcome, he would not "enjoy" painting. he enjoys it because he is patient, through that patience he has developed some skill, and now that he's good at it........i tell my kids self esteem comes from working at something and seeing yourself improve. when you see the improving results of your efforts you feel good about yourself. while i do not like golf personally i think the act of working on improving the game is what most people like about it. i have over 20 yrs experience making my living in construction, i am continually learning and improving, and feel pretty good about myself. in fact i feel so good about myself that if you look up the word prima donna in the dictionary you will see a picture of my smiling face!
YES! as Hercule Poirot said: "I do not chase the little ball!"Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
I prefer my beer in a dark green bottle with a cork in it.
rg
" This last spring, we were doing some landscaping ourselves, to beautify the new cedar deck. He had the ballls to tell me " You should have hired us, we're experts"."
I wonder if they are setting on the deck saying --
"Some of the plants that they used are just the wrong type for that exposure. And some of the other planted too close or too far way and in the wrong grouping to look right. And for G*d Sake while they were doing all of the work why in the h*ll didn't they spend $50 and mix in some soil admendments. Such simple detals that any pro would do."
" Needless to say, they are proud of their crapppy job, because they "did it themselves". Now, there is yet another horrible remodeling job perpetrated by a neophyte who should have hired a pro, and maybe asked to be a helper to get some experience."
We did't use too many plants, just edged the weedy spots and mulched.
We have already consulted another landscape designer, and have the future landscaping plan hanging on the wall in the office. We are really just killing the weeds for now. The designer cost $400.00. Please don't say we didn't consider all that stuff you mentioned, because we consulted a professional, and are planning for next spring's projects.
rg
That's why I told the original poster to "plan, plan, and re-plan."
Dust control during demo and construction should be a basic factor in what you're doing and when you do it.
I'm sure the rash of do it yourself shows, HD demonstrations, and the economic down turn has triggered the impulses in a lot of people to tackle jobs
The only way to learn to do something is to do it. Anybody that doesn't make mistakes isin't trying to improve. That doesn't mean that framing one house makes you a carpenter, just that as a homeowner I've learned that planning is sometimes more important than cutting wood.
We (my DH and I) don't want to do it all ourselves. I like working with good craftsmen. I'm happy to pick up beer cans and sandwich wrappers and bake them cookies, get them some good music on, if they will let me look over their shoulder. :)
But you guys have said it yourselves in a few threads. Everyone is SWAMPED...busy. And we have a horrendous fixer-upper that needs things done now. I hate muddling more than the next guy...I don't want to touch electricity, plumbing or masonry with a ten foot pole. But more and more lately I find myself picking up a DIY book and gritting my teeth because I can picture myself living without tile on the walls of the bathroom otherwise.
It's almost like a no-win situation for the low-middle class homeowner these days. We are so happy to pay for great work and I have unbelievable respect for workmen. But I don't have the gobs of money that folks on the North Shore do and the contractors know that they can charge premium rates up there and be busy all of the time. I work at a church. In lay ministry, you make less than the neighborhood babysitter (no lie! these kids charge $10/hr...wow!)
We got the fixer upper because it was the only way we could afford to be near family and that is important to us. We made money on the condo we sold and can afford to pay for work...but can't compete with the North Shore Premium crowd right now.
Somedays, it is very discouraging. So, it is the DIY route for us right now...and we are having to learn from books as we go and pray that we don't mess it up badly. We don't want to muddle or take short cuts.
I don't know what the solution is. Bummer. I'm happy for the contractors though! It is good to have work in such an awful economy. And good craftsmen deserve to be paid.
There's always an alternative. Next time you're having some work done, check with some of the guys on the job about doing work "off contract." That is, on their own time and you pay them. Sometimes you can get a real break on labor costs. Tell'em that you need a list of materials, and will have them on site, and everything ready to go so all they have to do is jump in and get busy. Ask what you can do to prep the area so you're not paying for down time.
I would jump all over one of my crew who did side work for homeowner of my job. what are you trying to do cut out your contractors percentage .
ANDYSZ2I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Speaking for myself, when I decide whether to do or not do something for myself, it depends on whether I like doing it or not. Cost savings is far less of a concern because I know from experience that I am not likely to save much, if anything.
I happen to like painting. It let's me relax my mind. So I do my own.
I happen to hate plumbing or mechanical work. it seems like all those threaded fitting go around in circles and I never get anywhere. I'm likely to end up with leaks in the plumbing or replacing the wrong part on the car/truck, and having to call a pro to get it right anyway so I save the agravation.
As a builder, I have often had HOs want to work with me to "save money" on their project. I offer them the choice of a firm price from me to do the job turn key, or to work along with them at an hourly rate.
Invariably, even though they have my direction and availability of tools and proper equipment, they always end up spending more when they help. The sign in many mechanic shops that says something like, "Rates, $35/hr - $45 if you watch - $55 if you help " is based on reality. I spend so muych time teaching them and correcting their mistakes that they are paying me more to supervise than to work productively.
But there are many DIYs who can do well and do. They take pleasure and projects are often family affairs that teach the kids something about the work ethic. These folks seem to keep moving up in style and value of home. It's a profitable hobby in some ways. And it keeps Dad home instead of __.
I think each person considering a DIY project needs to plan and understand whether their skills are up to the task, and not by going to a one hour HD demo about installing tiles over the weekend. Maybe by reading a book on the subject and trying to find a tilesetter who would let them watch for an afternoon. With the right attitude, of course.
I try to be realistic with customers.
My clientele now is far removed from most DIY stuff but in my early years, about half my work was connected to HO DIYs. For instance, folks building their own house who had planned to put the roof on themselves, suddenly find that they are worn out to a frazzle and it is October and the snow is appearing in the upper elevations...."By Golly! We better find a roofer quick!"
Excellence is its own reward!
Many times a job at the 7-11 store would pay much better than some jobs I've tackled, but they all get done and something gets learned.
Usually it's only "Don't do that again" but still, it's always good to know what it takes to do whatever it is.
For sure, anything to do with concrete is best done by someone 30 years younger, but I can still do it.
I did buy this BD-5 kit one time though. Gave up on that after a couple years of staring at it. Looked like a big aluminum Pinata full of pop rivets. Used to get a lot of questions from people who came into my shop. I think I'd still be staring at it if not for having to answer the questions......
Just think of those people who go through life never doing or trying anything new. How dull, and you never need a new tool for that job you're gonna do.
Joe H
As a mechanic, I've seen more bad work than I could ever describe here. Some of which is almost beyond description. Many, many times I've repaired vehicles that have spent endless hours at other "shops" and had $$$$ in parts thrown at them.
EG: Local Mitsubishi dealer sends me a 1993 3000GT VR4 (twin turbo, AWD). Seems the car's been at their shop for 6 weeks, every guy there's had his hands in it and they've put sumthin like $1200 in parts in it. Still no-go. They've got the manuals, but I've got the skills to find that somebody in the course of the attempted repair has cut and reconnected(with butt splices no less) 2 critical ECM signal feeds, and crossed the wires when they did it.
It took me 2 hrs to diagnose and properly reconnect the wiring, and check over the rest of their work. They had it back the same day.
By seeing it happen so often, I've learned to evaluate my strengths and weaknesses and keep myself from getting in over my head.
The guy I bought my house from was the kind of person we all bitch about..."That gonna cost what?!!....heck, I'll just wire that outlet with lamp cord."
Mike
EDIT: Boy did I go off on a tangent!
I do it because I like the challenge and pride of accomplishment. Saving a few bucks is a factor, but not the main one. In hindsight, there's things I would have done differently if I'd had experience in that area, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist and a pre-work planning fool so I tend to keep outta trouble.
If something's way over my head, I call a pro.
Edited 8/14/2003 7:12:25 PM ET by Mike Gabriel
Why we DIY:
1. We save money, lots of it. Not as much as we would like and not on every project, but overall, a lot of money.
2. My husband can do it. He's talented and he's a perfectionist. I am in no way biased. :-)
3. It is a constant personal challenge and a growing experience.
4. You are not at the mercy of other people. I guess there is a control issue here, but this way, we get to keep it.
I can tell you that no contractor would have done some of the things on our house as nice as we did. Oh, sure, for a price, but we aren't rich and the budget is tight.
Some days, however, I'm so sick of it I could scream! I've decided that DIY stands for Dumb Idiotic Yahoos, and DH and I are definitely one of those! :-)
Paula,
You sound like us. We've had one project or another going since our first house twenty years ago. Sometimes I don't know if I should thank or curse my builder father for teaching me his trade. But we do it for the same reasons that you cite. There's great satisfaction at teh end of the day and I wouldn't even know how spec some of the things we've built. Even if we could, we couldn't afford to have someone else put in all of the details.
We have a journal of our projects and on the first page is an article we found about ten years ago titled "Homeowner-Builder Syndrome..."
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." --Norman Schwartzkopf
There's great satisfaction at teh end of the day and
I wouldn't even know how spec some of the things we've built. Even if we could,
we couldn't afford to have someone else put in all of the details.
Exactly. We are on our second log home and EVERYTHING is unique and custom. Sometimes it just requires getting some wood together, some tools, and trying different stuff until you like the results. We just trimmed out our "wall of glass" over the weekend and it came out beautiful, but it was very custom....what can I say, logs create a lot of challenges that you don't have in a frame house.
Now when I say we, I really mean DH. I just tried to stay ahead of him on staining, and getting what he needed.
My role is usually "Human Tool Belt" ....as in Paula, hand me this, or hand me that. Everyone should have a human tool belt, really, although it never seems to come up in the tool forum!
Back in the 70's I had a partner in remodeling (and about anything else someone would pay us to do!). His father was both an attorney and a very successful businessman. He told us to look at business like so:
Everytime you learn something, it costs you. So if you learned, identify the cost so that it's not a surprise later, and then figure out how to use what you just paid to learn.
I'm all for DIY'ers. Practice, practice, practice!
Any jackass can kick down a barn, but it takes a carpenter to build one.
There is not a single professional here who could not, at some point in time, have been considered a DIY.
A good heart embiggins even the smallest person.
Quittin' Time
...and yet there are so many DIY'er that'll never be considered a pro......
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Wow;
now I know why I only get on the computer once, and that at night. Thank you all for taking the time to read and reply to my little rant against myself. I never really intended to imply that people should not DIY, only that we should always spend a little time on thinking out the reasnoning for doing so. If the time was spent doing something else, for profit, and then paying to have a pro do the work, I am willing to bet that the financials would be better. NO, profit is not always the motivator, but it seems that budget is a very popular subject, and sometimes I think we cost ourselves money trying to save it. Just my thoughts, and I am still doing it myself, and almost broke, so I can't even take my own stupid advice, so there.
Thanks again for all the viewpoints, carry on please.
Dan
There was a classic experiment quite a few years ago where they tried to measure software productivity vs quality characteristics. They formed a bunch of teams and gave them the same functional specification but with different primary objectives (run time speed, reliability, code clarity, etc). In the end when they evaluated the products against all of the criteria they found that every team except one had ranked first in what they were told was the most important objective. So the conclusion was that a team will try to do what they are told is the most important. They also found out that different objectives conflicted, which makes sense. Finally, Barry Boehm spent years measuring the factors that affect software productivity and built a software cost estimating model. The two factors that had the greatest impact on productivity were the quality of the development team and the complexity of the product.
Why am I going thru all this? Well I think the same reasoning applies to construction and DIY vs pro. DIY projects often have different objectives than pro projects. The pro's objectives generally are to build the project as quickly as possible within the quality specifications. The pros will generally be more productive development teams because they have knowledge, experience, refined processes, and good tools.
DIYs may or may not have cost as their primary objective. If so, then there is definitely a tradeoff between a DIY learning curve and a pro's productivity. If a DIY considers his/her time as free then that's one thing. If a DIY puts the same dollar value on his/her time as a pro would charge then there's no way a DIY will be as cost effective. If the DIY puts a value on his/her time somewhere in between nothing and a pro's fee, then the DIY's productivity does have to be traded off.
But if the objective of the project is to build something really cool or make something absolutely perfect, then there are definitely some DIYs who can compare to the pros. In some cases, if the project is very complex, it may be cost prohibitive to have a pro do it. For example, if the project is trimming out a house using standard trim that will be painted, then a pro will certainly do it faster and within acceptable standards (at least most of them will). If the project is building a British style wet bar with custom hand carvings in a particular floral pattern and the DIY is a sculptor, then he’d be better off doing it himself than hiring Joe Shmo cabinet hanger.
Soooooooo, I don’t think there’s one answer in the DIY vs pro thing. It all depends on the objectives of the project and the capabilities of the person doing it (DIY or pro) compared to the complexity of the project and quality expectations.
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." --Norman Schwartzkopf
Some people consider DIY the same as a hobby. Would you pay someone to play golf for you? To many, it is an enjoyable experience.
I have turned into my own contractor. Not particularly by choice: previous contractor did not pay any of his subs or suppliers, and then filed for bankruptcy when the house was at the crackfilled stage. I guess the window guy got tired of waiting for his money, and then the house of cards all fell. I understand how GCs earn their pay, but I am also enjoying it. At this stage, it is pretty much project management, with some final design and decorating decisions thrown in. Lots of phone time spent chasing crackfiller.
Luckily, only one sub has tried to d*&k us around. Most accept the fact that we have been stung pretty much the same as they were by the GC, and we will all work through the liens act to work out a resolution. It's not pretty, but then again, it's not our fault. In fact, you could ask some of the suppliers: how do you let a GC get up to a year behind? Still hasn't paid for flooring or windows on his last 3 houses? And he has a small crew, so he's usually only doing one house at a time? (Mid size, but high quality houses with lots of custom features). If you were a plumber or electrician, a small one or two man show, would you let a GC (even one with a 30 yr track record) string you out for $60,000?
Jeff, my bet is that you're thinking "Job securtity". <G>Andy Engel, The Former Accidental Moderator
A couple DIY reasons not seen in previous posts:
1. The time needed to do the job is usually less than finding someone to do it.
2. It is a lot easier to rationalize your own mistakes rather than someone else's.
3. Tax free adds a lot to the economic/cost savings equation.
4. 'Most' DIY tasks require so little thought the second time that one can plan the next, new, different project.
5. Gotta use up all the windows and lumber found free at various places.
6. You'd never had realized how easy it is to get (or bypass due to grandpa clauses)some of the legally required licences otherwise <G>
Everything in this household is DIY except medical and dental, and some of that even. Someone once asked, "who cuts yur hair?" DW, naturally. "Who cleans your septic tank" Me, naturally, etc. etc.
I will hire side work if only the people are not working any of my job first and its on weekend only. another thing is price. I refuse to pay anybody more than $100 a day for side work. That really is good money. First most of my job last about six hours at the most so thats 18 hour with no deduction, that real good pay around here. But most want $35 a hour with no resposibilty because that what they company charge. No workman comp, no warrenty no resposible..... no chance,
Becareful with side work its a time bomb, they will fake a injury and sue. I got to know them real good before I offer sidework. I usually just offer beer and bbq only and then when they leave there will be an enevolpe on the dash with a thank you note.