Let me just throw this out here and see if anyone has any ideas.
Found some ground in the country with an old house (1875-ish) on it. House looked vacant, so looked up the tax info and talked with a neighbor to find out who owns the property. I think the situation is: Grandmother died and left house in trust to daughter, but grandson administers it.
Grandson lives in town and was contacted (maybe 40-ish). He said he didn’t want to sell it. He has let the house sit vacant for two years. Sounds like he is perfectly willing to let it sit vacant until it falls down. Suspect that the grandson just doesn’t like old houses and the labor-intensive ‘charm’ that goes along with them (neighbor had said the house was nice inside).
The property has a small field in front of the house, but otherwise is unusable for anything other than maybe pasture land
Not only do I like the property, but it is a crying shame to let an old house die just because the owner doesn’t want to mess with it.
So any ideas on how to change his mind?
jt8
It’s better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. –Chinese proverb
Replies
More money.
Make a real offer. Seller's asking price does not have to come first. What's it worth to you? His lack of respect for the house isn't relevant. You might want to first determine, without doubt, that he can in fact sell it. Or, if not, who can.
Worked for me here.
One of my clients had that happen to him with his horse operation, which wasn't for sale. Turned out the offer was large enough to sway him. But you're probably thinking considerably less than $19,000,000? <G>
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Make a real offer. Seller's asking price does not have to come first.
He doesn't have it for sale. It is a vacant property I spotted during my 'wanderings'.
What's it worth to you? His lack of respect for the house isn't relevant.
I'd have to see inside the house before I could determine what it was worth to me. I like the tax assessor's "fair market value" as of 2003, but the area is hard to price. Urban sprawl is starting to reach its fingers out to the area...which causes prices to skyrocket. A $2k/acre turns into a $20k 1/4acre.
It is possible that the grandson is holding on to it to await the urban sprawl, but probably 2/3 of the property (or more) couldn't easily be developed (with creek, ponds and poor access from all but one side).
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
Maybe have a realtor contact the boy and explain the situation to him, that it's not developable property and the fair market value is XXX.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Make a real offer. Seller's asking price does not have to come first.
He doesn't have it for sale.
Your problem is your attitude. Approach this like a normal listing and you'll fail every time. You don't have to see the inside of the house.
Very, very little isn't for sale. Sometimes the owner doesn't know it .... yet. If you take the information you have, you can make it work. Or find out the owner has unrealistic price expectations. Or that you do. If you don't know what a realistic price is, do your homework. Potential for development is a part of that.
Motivated sellers sell cheaper. This is not your situation.
Make a real offer. PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
That's why i suggested getting a realtor involved. A disinterested third party who could set a fair price and give the seller professional non-emotional advice.
I'm sorry, I thought you wanted it done the right way.
Of course, it works both ways. I have a 10 acre parcel that abuts a State park, and it's all pine trees and gravel. I don't want to sell.
A realtor sent me a letter last week stating that she had a "motivated buyer" for my property and would I be interested in selling? I guess for the right price, I'd consider it. Maybe just over a million bucks, and I might consider it....
A realtor sent me a letter last week stating that she had a "motivated buyer" for my property and would I be interested in selling?
Jon, a little slow to get back here, been out of town.
I held a Realtor's license for more than a few years. Surely you know that's one of the first lies. Doesn't have to be, but often is.
Maybe 15 yrs ago I was approached on our property. Fortunately the Realtor told me that we'd get interest in the whole thing, not just the portion that we were more or less wanting to sell. Sure enough, I was asked for a total price, and we hadn't even moved into the house yet. I gave a tentative price, subject to DW's approval. Had to scrape her off the (rental) ceiling when I told her. Then we negotiated and the price went up 20% from its already unreasonable level. I checked out the potential buyers, who had the means. They didn't bite, but apparently it was close. We were easily 3x market value, but the prospects were having trouble finding a place to walk their dogs. Our 83 acres would have worked nicely. You never know.
We bought this direct from the owner working from assessed valuation, which by Va law is fair market value, and sometimes is. I'm sure we paid more than market, but it was exactly what we were looking for and was worth the money to us (non-typical buyers).
The worst that can happen with a too-low offer is no counter-offer, leaving the buyer in a weak position. If it was a realistic offer in the first place, little time wasted on an unrealistic seller. I've done that too. Sometimes you win, sometimes you don't.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
horse operation, which wasn't for sale. Turned out the offer was large enough
I thought all horse types lived by the adage that "you always have aprice for your horse; else it'll go lame." Mind you, 19 mill ought to get just about anybody's attention (except in the Bay area <g>)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I'm sure you'd be right about the horses, but they weren't included, only the real estate. Didn't even have an owners' house. .
$19m has a lot of options around here. My neighbor's offer at $1.3m is 4x median. Only 18 acres and no horse facilities though.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
What'd the sister say?
What'd the sister say?
The mother? (grandmother's daughter, grandson's mother) I don't have contact information for her. But that is about the only thing I can think of. If the property actually belongs to the daughter/mother, maybe I could go around the 'administrator' and talk with her (if I can get contact info for her).
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
That would be mother.Unless this is in Indiana, then it could be both.; )
A person with no sense of humor about themselves, has no sense at all.
Oh man, don't get that stuff started again. :o)
be instigatored alligator
"I can't say I was ever lost, but I was bewildered once for three days."
Been there done that. Last one I tried to buy the guy was a nut. He just let the family farm sit, fully furnished while kids vandalized it and stole all his mothers stuff. Cadillacs were still in the barn, eaten up by animals. He held it till he died and a land developer bought it and dozed everything as nothing that was still there was worth a dime by that time.
Only way I have gotten past it (twice) if you really want it is to make an offer. Most of the time it does nothing but I bought a side by side double for 10k once. Had never stepped foot in it before and the windows were boarded up. Still makes money today! DanT
It's not always about money. See if he'll let you buy him lunch, get to know him a little, find out what motivates him. I did this once with a woman administering an estate - turned out, she wasn't getting any of the money anyhow, so it meant nothing to her. I offered to buy the house 'as is', even help her sort through the deceased belongings, and handled the MA title 5 process for her. That was the ticket - she sold it to me at a great price. I never would have known her hot buttons if I hadn't sat down with her.
I'm working on one now where I know the seller has turned down many offers - it's a rental, so I suspect she is worried about paying taxes on a property that is fully depreciated. I'm getting educated on like-kind exchanges and intend to approach her with that.
It's not always about money. See if he'll let you buy him lunch, get to know him a little, find out what motivates him. I did this once with a woman administering an estate - turned out, she wasn't getting any of the money anyhow, so it meant nothing to her. I offered to buy the house 'as is', even help her sort through the deceased belongings, and handled the MA title 5 process for her. That was the ticket - she sold it to me at a great price. I never would have known her hot buttons if I hadn't sat down with her.
Bill, it seems like half the battle would be to find out what his motivations were not to sell. It could very well be that he won't see the $$, so has no motivation to go through the hassle. Or, maybe the property has been in the family for generations or... or... We can come up with many possibilities, but if I can't get the guy to open up, I won't know what his situation is.
A friend's grandfather had been hesitant to sell his property until the right arrangement could be found. In his case, the buyer ended up paying him "X" dollars a year for "Y" years instead of paying him one big bulk sum. It worked out well for both. Buyer didn't have to pay interest and seller didn't get hit with as many taxes. I would be willing to set something like that up.
But so far the guy hasn't been very receptive to even talk on the topic. Like running into a brick wall.jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
John,
A co-worker once bought an old farmhouse from the owner who had turned down many offers. He was able to buy it when he convinced the owner that he wasn't going to tear it down and build new. He really was going to restore it.
Maybe approach the owner again and ask him if he knows of any other old places that would be for sale, because you want to restore one.
Bowz
Ed's suggestion has merit; could be worth a try.
I'm actually in a similar kind of boat. A vacant house next door to me, with a woman who owns it but apparently is not happy about gentrification(etc.) and won't sell. Period.
At least that's the word on the street.I've left several notes, she's never responded. So if you do get something that works, please let me know!
Ed's suggestion has merit; could be worth a try.
Ed used the "R" word. That would be a last resort. Most of my experience with realtors has been that they can make the process a lot easier... but never cheaper.
I'm actually in a similar kind of boat. A vacant house next door to me, with a woman who owns it but apparently is not happy about gentrification(etc.) and won't sell. Period.
At least that's the word on the street.I've left several notes, she's never responded. So if you do get something that works, please let me know!
Jack, do you know where your owner lives? You might drive by and see if you can catch her out in the yard or something and 'just happened to be going by...' and open the subject with her directly.
As far as I can tell, I currently have two avenues of attack: either through the grandson or the mother. I'll have to FIND the mother in order to pursue that avenue. Grandson has been reluctant to communicate. I've been considering a follow-up letter with maybe a restaurant gift certificate. In the letter just restate my position and my willingness to be flexible. Maybe it will at least keep me in mind if he does change his mind. (but letters are easy to ignore)
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
John
I've been in your position many times.
I have to wonder what the people are thinking. They have a building that is going to pot because of no maintenance and they wont sell.
I think Bill W hit on some good ideas, although I've had very little luck changing some peoples mind.
The last place I was involved in was an 1840's federal house in Iowa, it was about ready to fall down. The lady that owned it barely talked to me. I couldn't get anywhere with her.
My BIL went to her because I was getting no where fast. She sold him the place for $65,000. I had been offering $75,000. Go figure. Hes a doctor and I'm just a dumb carp, don't know if that had anything to do with it but I always said that he could talk his way in or out of anything.
We remodeled the place and made some decent money, but I have had very little luck trying to get a place that has family ties, seams that's hard for some to let go of, even if they have no intention of ever doing anything with the place.
Doug
John, it ocurrs to me that your main obstacle here is still somewhat unknown; the man's lack of intrerest in selling could be anything from sentimental to just plain "not wanting to deal with it". Whatever the case, the family doesn't appear to need money, or have a particular interest in selling - at any price. Before you put anything on the table you have to first be invited to sit down. Put the strategy aside, be direct and sincere and let them know who you are and why you're interested in their property. They already know what's in it for them, so just tell them what's in it for you. Your appreciation for the house might impress them enough to overcome their apparent indifference. At very least you'll gain some insight into their situation and find out if there's any hope.
It sounds nice, I wish you luck.
Shotgun works well, but be prepared with some paper towels if you have to use it.
Shotgun works well, but be prepared with some paper towels if you have to use it.
ha ha, I was wondering how long it would take for someone to come up with that option... or a hiring it done.
Part of what puts me into conflict in this situation is that I'm a person who strongly feels that folks should be able to do anything they want with their property (as long as they aren't hurting anyone). So if dude wants to let the house fall down, its his house so its his call.
But on the other hand... What a waste! That house has suvived for 130 years, but now will probably be gone within another 2 or 3 years because the current owner isn't interested. Plus its a nice setting and I like the location.
I think I'll go ahead and send the grandson a letter reaffirming my interest in the property and reassuring him that my intentions are to rehab the house, maintain the property as a single family residence, and that I'm willing to be flexible.
And if the letter doesn't get a response (which it probably won't), I'll try to keep digging up information. jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
I think sending a nice, non-pushy letter would be a good move while you try to locate the sister/mother. If I were him and I had already told you I didn't want to sell, I wouldn't mind the letter but if all of a sudden a real estate agent showed up I would be ticked off.
I'm just guessing here but are you sure the problem isn't the typical deal makers hesitation? We all have it you know. The "I can't offer first cause then I won't get the very best deal" disease? :-) DanT
I'm just guessing here but are you sure the problem isn't the typical deal makers hesitation? We all have it you know. The "I can't offer first cause then I won't get the very best deal" disease?
Dan, that certainly is one of the factors. No one want to offer $X to find out the guy would have been happy with 1/2 $X. Or worse yet, you offer $X, but owner is thinking $X times 4 (so now he thinks you're wasting his time). So it would be nice to get a figure from him... but that is at odds with the technique of getting him to sell it via a bid.
If I wind up throwing an offer at him, I will probably need someone to give me an idea what the property is worth. Usually I can come up with a ballpark, but this one is tough. If it were across the road in the flat farm field, I could give you a ballpark number after finding out if municipal water was available (and we would be out of my ballpark).
But this property is rectangle shaped with access only on one of the short ends. I would suspect that it wouldn't be as popular to a developer (as the flat farm field) due to the trees, and the creek which meanders through the property.
If I remember my septic rules, I think you have to be at least 100' from creeks and rivers. If you draw a 100' corridor around the creek and remove the portions non-accessible without a bridge over the creek, you are only left with a few acres at the top of the property.
So while I'm sure the property would sell, I do not think it would bring anywhere near what the 'developer' properties would.jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb