Replies

1. 
   BillHartmann | Sep 08, 2006 02:15am | #1

   "I placed it in the hole right next to the main neutral that goes to the meter bace"

   I am not sure where that is.

   "I know one of these is for grounding the water."

   The water is not "grounded".

   Here are the basic rules.

   If you have a metallic underground water pipe that is at least 10 ft long then it MUST be used as one of the grounding electrodes. If you have a ufer ground (concrete footer with wire or rebar connections) then it MUST be used as one of the grounding electrodes. There are a couple of others, but rare to find them in residencial.

   However, the water pipe is not allowed to be the only ground electrode. Possibly because it might be replaced with plastic.

   Ground rod(s) may be used as a ground electrode. However, unless it is tested, using special equipment, to be less than 25 ohms, then a second electrode is needed.

   Thus, where the water pipe qualifies the most common installation is uses the water pipe and one ground rod as a ground electrode.

   What I am saying is that they are one in the same and should terminate at the same place.

   Now if the neutral bus is bonded to the ground bus, typically by a jumper between the two or a screw bonding the neutral to the metal case, then the either bus can be used.

   But if you water pipe does not qualify as a ground electrode but you have metal piping inside the house then the water pipeing needs to be bonded to the ground electode system.

   Also note that there is a lot of local variations in this area.

1. 
   plumbbill | Sep 08, 2006 05:06am | #2

   & I thought "double check" was going to be a thread about backflow prevention devices."I'm here to chew bubble gum & kick azz, & I'm all out of bubble gum" Rowdy Roddy Piper

2. 
   JohnSprung | Sep 08, 2006 10:12pm | #3

   > Now if the neutral bus is bonded to the ground bus, typically by a jumper between the two or a screw bonding the neutral to the metal case, then the either bus can be used. 

   It's also important to note that a connection between neutral and ground is *required* at the service entrance, and *forbidden* everywhere else.   

    

   -- J.S.

    

1. 
   CAGIV | Sep 09, 2006 01:44am | #4

   Can you explain why the ground and neutral must be bonded at the service?

1. 
   maddog3 | Sep 09, 2006 02:43am | #5

   because the POCO grounds their "neutral" at the pole....geez hit the button too fastthe bond provides a low impedance path for circuit faults ....which allows fuses or breakers to blow or trip more quickly .
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   .Wer ist jetzt der Idiot
   ?

   Edited 9/8/2006 8:06 pm by maddog3

1. 
   kayaker | Sep 09, 2006 03:54am | #6

   Thanks again for all of your help guys.  Just met up with a good friend of mine who happens to be a licensed electrician.  So you no longer need to think.  "he's going to kill himself"  or "get a professional"

2. 
   maddog3 | Sep 09, 2006 04:21am | #7

   good for you kayaker......you're one smart cookie, just keep posting your progress...with pics.

   .

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   .Wer ist jetzt der Idiot

   ?

2. 
   JohnSprung | Sep 11, 2006 10:38pm | #8

   Ground and neutral must be bonded someplace, so that a short between a hot and any piece of metal conduit or a metal box will trip the breaker or blow the fuse.  Otherwise, you'd have a large amount of metal going electrically hot all over the place, very dangerous.  People could get shocks -- or even electrocuted -- far from where the short happened. 

   If a connection between neutral and ground exists anywhere other than the service entrance, the ground, including conduit, could potentially be carrying current during normal operation.  That's dangerous if anybody works on the system and takes apart something that's carrying current.  One of the plumbers here tells a story about nearly getting electrocuted when he took apart some water pipes that were being used as a bootleg neutral. 

   That's a whole lot of text.  The simple thing is just to remember this:

   A solid, all-metal connection between neutral and ground is *required* at the service entrance, and *forbidden* everywhere else.   

    

   -- J.S.

    

1. 
   CAGIV | Sep 11, 2006 11:29pm | #9

   Thanks for the explanation.

   I know not much about electrical.