Got to wondering if anyone had ever taken an old decrepit, sagging, rotted, brokendown ready for the dozer house and salvaged the thing bringing it back to a simple modernized living quarters?
…sitting in his nowhereland.
Got to wondering if anyone had ever taken an old decrepit, sagging, rotted, brokendown ready for the dozer house and salvaged the thing bringing it back to a simple modernized living quarters?
…sitting in his nowhereland.
Ford Motor Company slashes prices for some F-150 Lightning models to stimulate demand for electric vehicles (EVs).
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Replies
Rez:
Is that the bedroom or the family room?
C
That was the upstairs bath. Always liked it rustic, you know. Speaking of rustic, I decided to carry the theme throughout other areas of the cottage....sitting in his nowhereland.
Yeah, knock it down and start fresh. So many repairs - window opening not structurally proper and split/ sistered studs - whoa! Problems waiting to ripen.
Here's a nice view from the upstairs window. Blue sky country living is so grand.
And here's one of a rural style of carpentry on the roof framing before it enters under the eaves. How do you like that unique technique?...sitting in his nowhereland.
Rez....
I got a special phrase I pull out for special occasions....
Feel free to steal it......
"Ya can't scare me.........."
I'll use it for customers when cases like this come up. What's the big deal.....it's all part of remodeling. You wanna save it..sorta...fine...I just gotta support it here..replace all that's shot...then support the supports........and..oh, yeah....
"Ya can't scare me".......neither can yer old house. REmodeling big or small....it's all a huge pain in the ####......so why let the big stuff worry ya.......the small sh!t'll kill ya just as quick.
My theory.....one big mess is better than a bunch of small one's that think they can sneak up on ya.
Have fun....buy a chain saw..........trust me.........remodelers "big demo and fine tuning" special tool.
A nice little electric chain saw goes a long way on jobs like that.
And a well fitting ball cap makes for shorter showers at the end of the day.
JeffBuck Construction Pittsburgh,PA
Fine Carpentery.....While U Waite
Roar! Yep, got the little electric chain saw and it proves itself invaluable. I kinda gave up on the ball caps tho'. Started wearing cloth welder's caps. Cheap, easy to clean and stays on the head when the winds blow.
It wasn't so much the lack of fear as much as the lack of awareness of the monster in the making. When weeks went to months and months to years I vaguely remembered thinking about how I was going to vaccuum the dirt out from between the first floor ceiling's plaster lath and the second floor's flooring. Gee, I'd have to get a shopvac. Little did I know.
'...scares me and I'm fearless!'
Needless to say I will never be the same again....sitting in his nowhereland.
rez.... nice pics ... but i got a cable modem so the format you're using doesn't scare me..
if you want to make it easier for everyone to view your pics, convert them to nnn.jpg... those .bmps with 400 kb will convert to .jpg with less than 100kb
here's some freeware that a lot of people use for conversion..
http://www.irfanview.com/Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
okay, I will return one day when this computer illiterate figures out the code on the irfanview. Will download and investigate. Maybe I'll get lucky....sitting in his nowhereland.
pretty slick freeware. i'm sure you won't have a bit of trouble..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
is the big button on the keyboard called the space bar? :O)...sitting in his nowhereland.
yes, dearMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
The space bar is in Roswell.
To Rez
Run For Your Life! (and let the dozer go to work)
I can't. I'm already out in the middle of the lake so I might as well swim to the other shore....sitting in his nowhereland.
Rez
Could you convert your photos to .jpg or .gif. I con only get 28k max connection speed on my ancient pentium1 computer, so I avoid looking at anything over about 60kb due to the ridiculously long time to download. Microsoft photo editor will work to change the format also. It's free I think. It's on my computer, but I don't know where it came from.
Edited 12/29/2002 10:15:53 AM ET by MARKH128
Is this better?...sitting in his nowhereland.
Tear it down and start over
Jay
Buffalo Watse Services Inc.
Man, that was so funny. First gufaw I had all day.Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
Mark-you'll have to bear with me while I learn this computer stuff-
...sitting in his nowhereland.
Edited 12/30/2002 1:40:46 AM ET by rez
by gosh , i think you've got it !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
You da man!
And your place is a bit rougher than mine. You weren't kidding.
The court jester's got himself some new digs!
Doing it up right!
Wait'll Mrs Jester sees this..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
Twice - against everyonebutthehomeowner's advice. I will never (never say never?) do it again. The only thing that allowed us to do it was the houses became T&M projects. Would never have done nor ever will do it any other way. Too many unknowns. In each case the HO refused to believe "fixing" old was more expensive than demolition and building new. Keep in mind that interior walls that are fine now will have to be ripped open to run new electrical or plumbing and then patched. "Moving a wall" (99% of the time) is no different than knocking a wall down and building a new wall.
I understand that the Homeowner has just spent a lot of $$$ on the house or has lived in it for many years and does not want to see it demolished and thrown away. But the time required to retrofit EVERYTHING, discovering the unknowns and determining the proper solution for each case, surgically cutting out this joist or that stud.....is soooo much longer than tearing it down and starting fresh, fast and right. The additional material cost is so much LESS than the cost of labor involved in the surgical repair method. And you will have the project completed much faster.
BUT......do some research to determine what the building code/ classification is concerning renovation vs. new construction is in your area. You may have different permissions for each. This may impact the foot print, or the height, or the proximity to the neighbor's property line/ street/ shore of the house. If it is different, which I imagine it is, you may be "required" to keep one wall, room, or maybe just a footing to keep the house in a "renovation" permitting classification.
If cost is your reason for asking, you might want to concider building the new house in phases - 2 or 3 Each Phase will then be prepped in the previous Phase. It will take a little more planning but as we all know (?) planning is the cheapest part of construction and the most valuable.
One last point. By knocking most, if not all, of it down you have a "blank slate" to design whatever you truely want rather than being confined to the "shortcomings" of the existing design/ structure.
ONE HUNDRED PERCENT CORRECT!!!!!!!!!!
I'm just finishing a design for renovation where the owner kept wanting to move structural walls and windows within walls. This house is "grandfatherd" in an area where it cannot be rebuilt if torn down so I had to work hard to explain what he was doing to costs and sell him my designs working with existing spaces, minimal movement of windows (two for my design vs. twenty three for his ideas), and requred limitations for extensions of volumn.
In the end, he said, that's why I hired you, to give me professional advice. Doing his design would have required tearing it down and re-building one wall at a time and half the roof, doubling the cost, at least..
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit.
The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are."
--Marcus Aurelius
I agree that T&M is the only way to go on a project like this one. I am working on an exterior re-do on a similar-condition building right now. The structure is the smokehouse on a family farm. The farm's been in the same family for over a hundred years, and the siding is falling off of the smokehouse. After 110 years (they actually have it documented) I guess that might be kinda normal.
But at the time of the bid, it was impossible to know how much of the framing is still solid.
The biggest challenge in my case, is that the HO insists on using vinyl (they have about 8 square of is lying in boxes in the large barn) but they want me to do as much as possible to preserve the liik of the old structure.
I told them that I could either hang the vinyl the way it's supposed to be hung, or I could re-side with rendom-width, rough-cut, 1-by lumber. And I gave them my rate per hour.
I've been putting up straps to hang the vinyl, and I'll hang the siding this week. It will look better than it did with the falling siding, but it won't look anything like the history that could be there.
DT
We had a house in our old neighborhood, affectionately called "the drug house" that was close to being in this state. House had a long dysfunctional family history, and the last owners either had to move or social services was going to take their baby. A local guy had previously approached them about buying it, and with money in escrow, bought the property for $120K, about half of what the house would cost in reasonable shape. Turned out to be way more of a project than he had planned on. Previous owners were slacko druggers (inherited property) and they literally pee'd in every room, along with having dozens of cats. New owner literally had to strip walls to studs on both floors, and in the bath to the joists. Even with 6 months of airing out, your eyes still watered when you went in. In some areas he had to seal the odor in with paint. But it has been a couple years now and the place is starting to shape up. Real estate prices have also shifted the value up over $300K so he hasn't had a loss by keeping it empty. I'm glad he was there because I had my eye on it as a fixer upper, but this is something that would have resulted in a dee-vorce if I'd bought it to fix up. I've had more than enough to do over the last year, this other house was an order of magnitude worse. Also, the neighbors are happy that it is being rebuilt rather than having a new modern house in their 1920's historic neighborhood.
I'll just jump in here.
Most guys that post on breaktime are pro/semipro being paid for services. This thread doesn't go that way. This is aimed at communication dealing with the idea of a shoestring budget and rebuilding to a livable building so normal laws of time and materials won't work here. We are getting into areas of sustenance living. Kind of like fishing solely to feed a hungry belly as opposed to sport and proper technique.
A personal observation of a good purchase for a total redo on a shoestring budget. Rural or even semi-rural if you can get away with it. Ideally the building is so far gone it doesn't really add any value to the property. Planning should include how involved city officials will be as inspections and permit yanayana can shoot you down before you're even out of the gate.
This is for personal residence so more legal rules are broken since you're not planning for resale. Some counties don't inspect septics every time a place is sold. If you have to be concerned with things of that nature then you've got to look elsewhere.
So the initial outlay of the dollar. Got to have a pre-existing structure you can work on hassle free no matter how far gone it is. How that happens from savings, land contract ,whatever. A lot of books out there on that stuff.
Septics can usually be reworked to a functional use unless really ancient and gone. Even then you're not building for a family of five now as much as for independence so a lot of variables here.
If you're really lucky wiring is still intact to the house and can be turned on providing juice to the box then you're home free and loving rural america. If not then getting juice can be complicated and expensive and cause attention to be given to you. Not good. Remember, the building inspector is not your friend. Complications? Keep looking. There are places that would rather see someone take a ramshackle back to functionality and pat you on the back in the process. I've seen it but never happened to me.
Those are the big moneygrabbers.
Luka-Sure I'll shoot the breeze. Give me some exact questions or I'll end up writing a book. :O)
Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
Well gee, I was kinda hoping for the book.
What would you do differently next time ?
Level the thing up first thing ?
Worry less about looks, and more about structure until you had the structure true ?
Hook up your computer sooner ?
: )
Hire someone to do some of the more labor intensive stuff like demo and cleanup ?
Anything different you would do in the finance department ?
Quittin' Time
Tim's post covered a lot of ground. Teardown and Rebuild can be the best way to go if your regulations permit it. Easier and less time consuming. My case that wouldn't fly 'cause regs are enforced and they want your money. I wouldn't take on another one as far gone as this was unless the price couldn't be resisted.
When I started out on this project my knowledge base was so close to 0 I was approaching a negative number. Had no tools outside maybe a hammer and an old tapemeasure. Had gumpshun tho' after I decided to do the project. Don't know if it was inborn ignorance or life's rule that to a hungry man every bitter thing is sweet, but I ended up with nothin' but gumpshun and sometimes that's the only thing that'll push you thru. That and my savored old issues of Finehomebuilding. 'Oh, so that's how that's done.'
Ya, level the building right off the bat. Not that awful involved unless the foundation is pukey which is a good possibility. The foundation as always is priority followed by the roof.
Less about looks until true? Yep. Except getting a general idea of what the final might look like if you're going to add dormers, entryways and the like.
Demos just the process of doing it. Ugly of course but if the whole idea is dollar savings then that extra labor added here and there adds up quick and you might as well have just got a loan and bought one that doesn't need the work. There's a reason why those old buildings sit year after year:O) Everyone wants them already done with no grief.
I find the one big item toward the success of the project is secure storage outside the building. Even if just a 20ftsemi trailer. The idea is not to store the supplies inside the house where you'll be crawling over them and having to waste time moving them around. Resist the urge to plug up that empty space or you'll end up paying for it one way or another.
Then get all your windows ahead of time at auction, salvage or whatever. Unbelievable prices on new stuff with a scratch on the vinyl at those new merchandise builder auctions. I've bought new thermal pane 4x5 for like $10 to $20. A 5x8 for $35 for what reason I have yet to discover. (resist this urge also) Double casement 5x5 for over the kitchen sink $70 still in wrapper. Often times you'll just be bidding against the guy that runs a seconds store somewhere who his buying his stock. Then rebuild your walls to fit the windows.
Finances? I've heard of this thing. 'Course the more you have to spend the better off you are. If you had it to spend you probably wouldn't be rebuilding a dozerhouse to live in. I imagine a bank would laugh you out of the room if you got to the point where you couldn't stand it anymore and just wanted to GET THE DAMN THING DONE!!! ROAR!
I personally resist that urge but do see it as a viable alternative especially if you made a mistake and put yourself on a time deadline for some reason. That'll add to the stress of putting up with the naysayers that'll come around laughing and telling you to doze it over then go back to their home and spend $500 a month rent they'll never see again on their shack or $1200 a month on their house with $50 going against the principle. Ya right and I'm the fool?
But to each his own. You could just go join the system and get a job to pay the many pipers for the dance. I think New Hampshire's state slogan says it the best...
'Live Free or Die'
Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
So rez, must have missed the beginning of this thread someplace else...
This is your place you rebuilt? When did you buy it? How does it look today?
I've seen a few places in similar shape restored...I was amazed. I'd never have the patience...
Thanks for the smaller pictures and now how about some more recent pictures please. I keep looking at the original old house and wondering what it'll look like.
I'll even ask Pi to put your next drink on my tab!
J
Guys- Roar! I'm about ready to break down and buy a digital camera. Just a regular without the video stuff. Do you have a recommendation? I need one capable of being able to take closeups for Ebay.
Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
Edited 1/13/2003 11:26:59 PM ET by rez
I just thought it might be good to mention one of dads tricks. [not to say he has been the only one to do it ]
My Mother and Father were starving in Arkansas . Literally, as there was no work . [1950] They had a rough time of it , but moved to Rockford Ill to work for National Lock as all are familiar with their hardware. He built demo cabinets to display hardware. They only let him work 40 hrs a week and he didn't know what to do with his extra time as he logged daylight to dark in Arkansas seven days a week. Funny what starving does to the mind. Anyway he came with no money and he built houses the rest of the time . Saved his money and bought some land . He dug a basement and topped it with a black stuff that I always thought was tar and mineral paper. I'm not really sure , as I was six years old. We moved in the basement while he kept saving money. Long story short we ended up with a house paid for and it sold when it was complete. The whole family worked on the house as always , while raising a garden in the summer and milking a jersey cow called Lucy. I remember it was a family effort mostly . My jobs included feeding Lucy , sweeping the floor , picking up blocks , and handing Dad tools out of his open wooden tool box with a closet rod handle. Remember those ? There was a place for three different handsaws , holes for chisels and nail sets , etc. My older brothers worked much harder and they never thought it was fair that I was too young.
The reason I mention the story is that I know I take some of my ideas from my raising. A way of life when we were poor remains in my mind and I've always had a fear of starving. [wonder why?] In my later years I ran a business and looked to the best peers I could find to form my business after all I had always learned watching my family . [even brothers , but I didn't admit it . ]
The most solid business people had an iron defense , while flashy business people developed an awesome offense . Over my lifetime the defensive people prevailed and stayed in business. I believe that about business in general. There is a lot of fancy people reading these posts but there are some defensive people also. Defensive = conservative of course. There is a place for all , though all posts are not for everyone. I'm glad we are having a wide range of posts to serve everyone's interests.
Tim Mooney
Luka- I was wondering if you are really considering doing a reno and if so, how close time wise are you to actually pursuing one?Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
Not even thinking about it at this point.
I asked all the questions, because you never know. If something happens here and I lose what I have, then I have to think in terms of trying again somewhere else, or just plain giving up.
At this point in time, I plan to just stay right here, and keep improving not only my own living conditions, but improving the property as well. Eventualy, I suppose, I may get to the point where I can actualy sell the property for more than I would have in it, and at that point I would have to consider a reno somewhere, again.
This time I didn't get to reno. As I said in the other thread, I started out with a raw piece of property. Most of it steep. All of it muddy, and/or choked with brush.
I lived in a tiny pickup camper for a year and a half, before I was able to pull my own head out of the mud, (depression.), and start actualy trying to make something of this place.
I am now working on bringing a structure that I built, into line with what the county wants. (I have to cut it into two separate structures.) I am also working on the trailer I am living in. This coming summer, I hope to get the water system dug in, and frost proof. I also hope to get a 120 sq ft structure built at the end of the trailer. In that structure I hope to put a human sized shower, a clothes washer, at least a 20 gallon water heater. (110v.) A small sink. And if I can find one, an incinolet.
I was considering putting in a bootleg septic system. I have studdied them, and gotten a huge amount of information from very learned people, on the subject. I could put one in that would put the county approved system to shame. But... I am tired of doing things on the sly. I do not want to be looking over my shoulder all the time. Besides, dealing with the septic storage, the transport tank, etc... is dirty and unhealthy. With water at a premium, it is always a crying shame to have to waste so much water just cleaning up.
An incinolet is perfectly legal. I have now seen three of them. I have seen the results of using one. And I have seen how to use one. I am sold. Even if I have to buy one on payments, I think it is a good idea. It will pay for itself in the long run. If only on saved stress and bypassed health problems.
Point here, is that I am not looking for another place now. I am looking to inprove this place, and to find ways to make my living conditions healthier, more confortable, and well within the law.
I also have as a goal, just to get the place liveable for now, but eventualy to start incorporating more aesthetic appeal. Fine woodwork, sculpture, unique and beautiful use of unusual materials, use of materials on the property, etc. I hope someday the whole property looks pretty much like a park.
The biggest opponent I face is the depression. The strangest and one of the most diabolical effects that the depression has is called volition. (Or lack thereof.) For some reason, I could go to your house, and help to rebuild the thing, and never get tired of it. But when it comes to my own place, just forcing myself to make new handles for the post hole digger is impossible.
Quittin' Time
>For some reason...never get tired of it.
That's because you've got the Holy Ghost.Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
I don't know if you are yanking my chain, or are sincere. I will assume that you are sincere. More fun that way.
: )
I won't say any more than this, because I try to live my beliefs, not parade them, or push them on others. If you want to talk about it, send me an email.
Fact: It is THE reason I am sitting here talking today, instead of feeding worms and tree roots. If it had been only my own meagre inner strength, I would not have survived.
Now, I take my meds every day, and watch what I eat, as well as watching many different habits. I also keep a close eye on stress, and do something about it before it is too late.
As long as I keep ahold of the handle I have found, I seem to be able to 'handle' it. But when all was stacked against me, and I had none of the above to help me... if it had only been me standing there, I would have failed.
Quittin' Time
I wouldn't yank anyone's chain about the fabric of life. Just was recognizing the similarity with my own A.D. attitude with washing dishes. In B.C. hated doing dishes period. In A.D. I would be at someones house and want to help with the dishes but still hated to do my own. Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
Luka
Congrats on your progress. Funny, I understand the part about working on your own place. I just can't seem to get into working on my own anymore, don't know why though. There's a ton of work needing done. I think sometimes that if I just start it will be OK, but I never start. I do seem to have no problem coping with the occasional emergency type repairs, but then thats the end of the work.
"Luka- I was wondering if you are really considering doing a reno and if so, how close time wise are you to actually pursuing one?"
I suppose I missed the point also.
Tim Mooney
The subject could go a dozen directions and thought if Luka was in a go mode that would help direct the topic.Character? I never had any problem with character. Why, people've been telling me I was one every since I was a kid.
How much land are you sitting on ? Is it rural?
I know one instance where some one tore it down and built a future garage . The material from the house was used to build it. It was an efficiency apartment with the garage door headers in place and covered with temporary fill in studs . It was drywalled . It had a kitchenet , bath, wood stove, air conditioneer installed in the back wall. In my memory every thing but the drywall was used material or bought from salvage stores that sell new reject material. We have about 5 of those stores here. They are called frieght sales stores. Truck loads are bought from people like Lowes, etc. I bought some cammodes that were broken for example . I made four cammodes out of 9 , and hauled the rest to the dump. I paid 2$ apeice. I do that quite a bit with the rental property. I know several people who use their extra time to tear down others homes for the material. Some places pay for the tear down. I think Ive already written about this kind of thing in some other posts.
I wont rebuild a dozer house because I would be kicking dirt if I did. We need to have an uplift from a days work in remodel. Im not saying Ive got a snubbed nose . I have looked at a bunch of houses noone wanted. The trick is to buy one for a song and get money out of it in rent or out right sales. In your case to live in . Same resolution in the end.
The codes here call for roof line changes to be permitted in the city . Rural is free of inspections for building codes. Interior and exterior plumbing gets inspections on new systems. Old systems are not inspected unless there is a complaint . [raw sewage water present]
To Luka,
If I had the time , but on limited budget ;
I would rather buy all the land I could afford to buy in rural with buildings already there. Sub divide the land and save one spot for my use . Tear the building down and rebuild it with the materials. I did this once. The land that sold cleared the material bought and the purchase price. I ended up with a nice small house paid for that rents today for $500 per month. There was no value considered in the building I tore down, but I got a septic , well, water line , natural gas plumbing, and lumber for free. I rebuilt the house a lot quicker than fixing the old one , and I have value as listed in an appraisel. The house is appraised at 49,900. If I would have remodeled it still would not have been worth but the purchase price of 14,000 with out the land to go with it. My estimate of time was less to tear down and rebuild than repair the existing strucure to adequate standards.
My father did this at age 76 also. He bought 356 acres and built a stoage building to live in while he built a new house alone. Storage building was 8x16! He died in that storage building before the house was complete. I felt bad about that , but he would not have had it any other way . He had money in the bank and the land payed for in his life efforts after nearly going broke after 5 surgeries. He had other properties paid for as well doing it the same way. In his younger days he built a small cabin on land he bought. Cleared and sold the timber and subdivided while he worked full time at carpentry.
I have seen it too many times start from" nothing" .
Tim Mooney
Old buddy, I hope you had fun with the place...