any recomendations on drill/drivers. example craftsman $59.00 12V VS makita $120.00 12v.
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I don't think anyone on this forum has any qualifications to deal with this topic. In fact, none of us have any opinions.
For what its worth, all drill/drivers are made by the same factory. Then they are packaged in individual cases of different colors.
For instance:
Black - Craftsman
Orange - Harbor Freight
Yellow - DeWalt
Green - Hitachi
Light Blue - Makita
Dark blue - Bosch
Red - Milwaukee
So pick your favorite color. That's all there is to it. ;)
By the way, some supposedly helpful soul will soon write in to advise you to use the "Search function". Don't waste your time; it doesn't work. [And, even if it did, all that info is would be out of date anyway.
~Peter
Where is the Tavern?
Edited 3/13/2005 6:48 pm ET by PM22
thanks for the info
You're welcome.
Incidently, the Panasonic is also black and the Hilti is red. What the other guys are trying to do is support their own foolish purchases ["I bought such and such so it must be good"]. As for the issue about batteries, they are just pointing out that you get stuck with just one manufacturer's line. This is ridiculous since there should be an international standard. Why shouldn't you be allowed to put a Craftsman battery in a Milwaukee drill? or, for that matter, put a 16 volt battery in your 12 volt drill to get a little extra speed?
Actually, there is a standard --and it is the D cell battery. Available at any drugstore.
~Peter
Bring back the Tavern!
16Volt battery??
And you're telling me that ALL cordless drill/drivers are made in the same factory?
How'd you come across this information?
In a valiant effort to conserve our nation's precious supply of electrons, I decided to round off 15.6 volts to 16 volts. Notice how you recieved that message substantially faster than this message and that is because I rounded off.
As for the universal factory thing, that was a premature generalization. For instance Ryobi makes Craftsman drill. Black & Deker and Bosch are linked like oxen. I understand that Milwaukee was recently bought by someone else, perhaps Skil. Or maybe DeWalt was always a part of Skil.All the cordless drills -- except the eggbeaters -- use universal motors. There are minor differences such as sleeve vs. ball-bearings, plastic vs. metal gears and so on, but the main differances are price, color and, of course, the nameplate.
The cost of a $100 drill out the factory door is maybe $30. The incremental cost of the drill off the assembly line is probably something like $3.
~Peter
I like your wit, but some of your information is a little off base.
Bosch acquired the Skil company in the last year or two, however there is and probably always will be miles of differences in quality between a Bosch cordless drill and a Skil cordless.
I believe it was Porter Cable (Delta machinery) that recently merged with Milwaukee. I've got no problems with the quality of either companies tools there. They both have some great stuff and some dogs as well. (Like every tool manufacture)
As far as Black and Decker, they have been the parent company of Dewalt tools for quite some time now... no secrets there either. While I'm not a fan of Dewalt cordless, their tools are still superior to the "Firestorm" line that still carries the Black and Decker branding.
Regarding the quality of ball bearings and plastic vs metal gears etc... those are far from minor differences when talking about tools. They are major differences which directly reflect the performance, durability, and longevity we can expect from our tools.
I do, however, see your point. Many of the tools are very similar and are often times "related" via parent companies. But I think it is less than fair to say that they are all the same. I also feel that your statement regarding those of us who offer suggestions based on experience was off base and off color as well. Speaking for myself, I would never recommend a tool I've had a bad experience with just because I bought it. I'd be the first to say, "hey don't waste your money.... such and such is a hunk of garbage".
I really don't have any brand loyalty when it comes to tools. I'll purchase the best I can justify and afford based on the suggestions of my peers regardless of color, price or brand. I've got tools from every major manufacter out there right now and I purchased all of them based on experience and/or referals from other trademen. I would have missed out on some good deals and great tools if it weren't for the suggestions made right here on this forum that you just dismissed as inflated brand loyalty or justification of "foolish purchases".Edited for spelling....twice... ;)
Edited 3/14/2005 9:16 pm ET by dieselpig
Edited 3/14/2005 9:18 pm ET by dieselpig
Dewalt bought the tool group of Pentair, which was devibiss compressors and air tools, porter cable, delta and oldham. Milwaukee was bought at about the same time last summer buy TTI which is the corporate owner of Ryobi power tools. I think TTI is a hong kong based company.
I don't know why milwaukee sold but I know Pentair wanted to get out of the tool business and concentrate on their main business of I believe water treatment.
With cordless drills,I believe that you get what you pay for. If you stick with the main pro grade brands,Dewalt,Milwaukee,Bosch, Makita,Porter Cable you can't go wrong.
The Craftsman Professional drills are solid drills but tend to be "bulky". I found that Craftsman often stretches the truth with their torque ratings. I wouldn't buy a Craftsman drill unless you see a great deal. I got a Craftsman Pro 9.6v drill with one battery,and no charger(I already had one) for 17 dollars.
As far as the consumer grade cordles drills,I would recommend the Ryobi (Home Depot) brand and the Craftsman EX series drills. I have heard good things about these tools. These are good lower priced drills,but they are not for professional use.
With the lower priced drills,you normally get,less power,less runtime,plastic gears,an inferior plastic chuck,and you may find they you will become frustrated during a big project,and head back to the store to buy a better drill,after the motor overheats,or the plastic chuck won't hold its bit.
It depends on your budget and your needs. If you have a major project coming up and you have the money,get a pro grade drill.
Remember,look at the bargain shelves for deals.
There is an excellent review of 14.4v drills in the Feb-Mar 2005 issue of Wood Magazine.
Frank
To clarify...Porter Cable/Delta, was sold to Black and Decker last year, some Ridgid tools are made by Metabo (the 6" ROS) and Dewalt we all know is just a yellow B&D...other than that, I don't know...Hit 'em hard, hit 'em fast, SHOW NO MERCY!!!
MILWAUKEE TOOL, AEG BRANDS SOLD TO HONG KONG COMPANY
09/02/2004
STOCKHOLM, SWEDEN -- Atlas Copco Group has agreed to sell its electric tool business to Techtronic Industries Co. Ltd., based in Hong Kong, for a total purchase price of $627 million.
The divestment includes two divisions within the Industrial Technique business area: Atlas Copco Electric Tools (Germany) and Milwaukee Electric Tool (United States). In 2003, the business had revenues of approximately $700 million and 3,100 employees. Products are marketed under the Milwaukee and the AEG brands.
Several companies were interested in acquiring Atlas Copco's electric tool business. The successful bidder, Techtronic Industries, a leading supplier of home improvement products, offers a global brand portfolio including Ryobi power tools.
The New MillenniumThe year 2000 was full of change for Porter-Cable. In January, Porter-Cable consolidated with sister company Delta Machinery. Delta relocated it headquarters and distribution center to Jackson from its Pittsburgh location in early January. While keeping its manufacturing operation in Tupelo, Delta and Porter-Cable began sharing several resources such as a newly constructed 425,000 square foot distribution center, accounting & finance departments, engineering, and purchasing. The efficiencies led to cost savings that went straight to the bottom line. These savings were passed on to end-users via lower price points.
Later that year, Pentair, Inc. acquired DeVillbiss Air Power Company, which gave Porter-Cable and Delta significant advantages for an expanded product offering. By the beginning of 2002, Porter-Cable had introduced a complete line of compressors, generators, pressure washers, and air tools to complement its line of power tools and air nailers. Distributors need only look at one brand for all of its jobsite needs. Porter-Cable offers the broadest product offering available in the industry. Professionals and do-it-yourselfers increasingly turn to Porter-Cable to tackle the tough jobs that demand perfection.
A Look AheadNo one can anticipate the future. However, one prediction can be made with certainty - Porter-Cable's tomorrows will center around quality, innovation, and people. The spirit of Art Emmons will live on through the company well beyond the company's 100 years. It is a safe bet that Porter-Cable will continue to pioneer the breakthroughs that simplify the tasks of working men and women. To quote a Greek soldier many centuries ago, "This isn't the end. It isn't even the beginning of the end. However, it is the end of the beginning."
or perhaps it's the begining of the begining, begining to end.. or the ended beginning ending to begin.. or--______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
that's right ....what you said!
....I stand corrected, this is the most bitter post I've ever read!Justin Fink
FHB Editorial
How did you get that rubber suction cup on a handle [aka "plumber's helper"]?
It is a pleasure and an honor to be nominated for this unique distinction. But I'm a bit dubious about the tern, "bitter". I think "acerb" would be more apt.
~Peter
P.S. Some sites make available the use of smilies. Perhaps you could add this feature sometime. One should be a wink or a sarcastic grin. ;]
The four major food groups are noow: instant, frozen, snack and brewed.
Geez Peter,
That was one of the most bitter posts I've ever read! Justin Fink
FHB Editorial
Peter,
<!----><!----> <!---->
Where do you get your mis-information? Do you make it up? You say “all drill/drivers are made by the same factory.†You can not be more wrong.
<!----> <!---->
<!----><!----><!---->Orange<!----><!----> is Ridgid and the cordless drills are made for Ridgid/Home Depot by TTI in <!----><!---->China<!----><!---->. TTI also makes many Craftsman tools in the same plant for Sears (in China). TTI also makes Ryobi drills. This may be where your confusion stems from.
<!----> <!---->
<!----><!---->Milwaukee<!----><!----> makes their 12V and 14.4V drills in the US of A and the 18V and 28V tools in <!---->Europe<!---->. Delta, DeWalt and Porter all come from the far east.
<!----> <!---->
So much for your theory one factory makes them all. The trouble is people actually believe the stuff you say. Too bad for them.
My information comes from a verifiable, reliant source -- namely the Internet. To be sure, it comes from the FineHomeBuilding website; to be precise, the forums and to be even more precise, it comes from this very thread, Post #2, to be ultraly precise.
Your argument is flaked by unfathomable flaws. For instance, you state, "Delta, DeWalt and Porter all come from the far east". So where is China? Answer: the Far East. QED. [for those of you who do not understand Latin, that means quad erat demonstratum. Then you venture on to allege that Milwaukee makes their tools in "Europe". Look at your kid's globe and draw a line from Wisconsin to "Europe". It heads east and it's pretty far so it must be the far east and, as has already been pointed out, the far east is China. So there.
By the way, you spelled TTI backwards. It is actually ITT.
I cannot comprehend why you feel sorry for the "people [who] actually believe the stuff you say". What am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to willy-wally like a certain politician from Ohio? Do I expect people to take what I say with a grain of salt? This would be bad for those who have a high chloresterol count and I wouldn't do that. This Forum is good for people and non-fattening.
Finally, I would like to close with an objection to the word "chuck". This is a denigratinging term for a dignified, but essential, part of the drill. The proper term should be "drill Charles". The same goes for "plumb bob". That should be properly referred to as "plumb Robert". Have some respect!
~Peter
Instant, frozen, snack and brewed.
<!----> <!---->
Peter - you kill me! I'm rolling on the floor here ... BTW, the term drill Charles has been abandoned due to overwhelming pressure from the English Queen. Apparently, she had issues with a tool that screws everything in sight having parts named after the prince.View Image
Actually, my Milwaukee cordless drill says "Made in Czech Republic."- Toolfreak
What do you want it for? What are you looking for, 12v, 14.4v or 18v?
I would go with either milwaukee or bosch. If you want to save money then look for a refurbished over on amazon.com
I'd stay away from the Craftsman if I were you. Other than that.... you can probably take your pick of Makita, Milwaukee, Bosch, Hilti, or Panasonic and be happy. Your biggest deciding factor should probably be that you choose a tool made by the same manufacturer as your other cordless tools, if you have any.
If you don't, then take some time and look at other cordless tools offered by the companies you are considering. Think about what other cordless tools you may be purchasing in the not so distant future. Then make your decision based on whose other cordless offerings you like best.
If you just want a cordless driil/driver and don't have plans on purchasing any other cordless tools then I'd go handle a few in person. Which one feels best to you?
Me? I'm a mess. I've got a Bosch 18V Brute Tough drill driver. Two Makita 12V impact drivers and I just ordered a 15.6V Panasonic multi-driver just cuz it was a good deal.
I can give advice....I just have a hard time following it!
Go with the Mak ya cant go wrong with blue...
like a old timer here used ta say.....
By the blue makita stream...
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
.
PANASONIC
If you only need the drill/driver, then Panasonic is the best for what I do, which is some of everything. Longest lasting batteries, compact, light for the power, balanced, comfortable in the hand...so, what's not to like?Bill
OTOH, Panasonic makes batteries for a lot of other companies. I just got a refurb'd Milwaukee 18V hammer drill. That thing kicks butt! Comes with two batteries, case, charger and full 5 year warranty.The drivers and drill are mostly made in the same country, not the same factory. I have a friend who works for Milwaukee Tool and he was been to Taiwan, ROC and Singapore several times.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
DEWALT
I have a 12v Dewalt that is 12 years old and I'm just now looking to replace it. Replaced one of the original batteries just two years ago, and still using the other. Read up on cordless drills and how to care for them and their batteries and it'll add years to whichever brand you decide to buy.
Just my 1 cent after taxes,
Bill
The new Lithium Ion batteried Milawaukee's are out this month. Check them out if you're looking for cordless drill that has the power of a corded drill....
you can read all this stuff and decide on your own--I'll only give you this one piece of advice...
forget about trying to run one brand across the board if you are considering multiple tools.
I decided early on no to get caught in this trap and I have three types of batteries.
I have one charger board with all three attached to it so if one goes they all go and no one battery sits around unused and forgoten while the rest are run continuesly.
With short time chargers I have never had two dead batt. at the same time so that is Not an issue.
Some companies offer the certain tool to complete their line but they are not neccesaraly the best available, which is why I run what works and not what matches.
So you can take this for my personnal experience and do with it as you wish.
O.K. I feel better now ----thanks, MIke
I was given a Ryobi 14.4 as a gift 5 yrs. ago. I'm in the business so I use it most every day. I probably would not have bought it due to my tool snobbery but it has been a great drill. I blow right by other workers with different colored drills. I'm not going to drive 6" #14s all day, I use a corded for the heavy stuff. I would buy another one if this one ever quits. The batteries can last for days and it came with a real nice flashlight.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I also had a Ryobi 12v. for about 6 years used it everday as well, and the only thing that finally quit was the charger. For what its worth I replaced it 18 months ago w/ Hitachi,
there is a makita deal right now (look at amazon or coastal tool if you cant find it locally) for a 12v makita impact driver for about 200.00 it comes with a free cordless drill/driver body.
______________________________________________
--> measure once / scribble several lines / spend some time figuring out wich scribble / cut the wrong line / get mad
Just threw my 18-volt Craftsman in the garbage. Only had it for 3 years, but it did a decent job while it worked. Bulky and heavy as hell, though.
That said, I just bought a new 14.4-volt Milwaukee "Lok-Tor" drill (model #0616-24). The difference is like night and day! You can feel the quality of this drill when you hold it in your hand, compared to the Craftsman. Plus, it's lighter and actually has more torque than the 18-volt Craftsman. It also has a metal chuck as opposed to the junky plastic one that came with my Craftsman.
Take a good look at the Milwaukee. Twice the price of the Craftsman, but worth it. It also got a good write-up in the FWW/FHB 2005 tool guide. Just be careful not to buy the "Home Depot" version of this drill with the plastic chuck and belt clip. It's not the same drill.
- Toolfreak
jk3,
Like PM22 said pick your favorite color; as for who makes each brand I don't really care. I work in a architectural millwork shop (http://www.onsitewoodwork.com) and we have guys running 80% craftsman drill/drivers. We are using our drill/drivers as drills and screw guns five to six days a week during 10 to 11 hour shifts. These guys don't have any problems with the craftsman tools. If money is a stipulating factor, go with the craftsman ($60-$100). I myself run a DeWalt 18v ($249) because I like its power, versitility and battery life (XR+). I've used a DeWalt drill/driver for years and that is all I own as far as DeWalt; well the exception is my DW708. Heck, there are two apprentices that each use a Harbor Freight and Menards brand (Shop Tool or whatever the name is) gun and they give dependable service in a much more limited role. But for me, when it comes to boring out a 5/8" by 5" hole in a solid core door for paint pins, I don't have to grab the Milwaukee 0302-20.
Troy