Hello,
We hired roofer to strip and re-shingle my mom’s roof. They took off drip edge and did not reinstall new drip edge. When I called the office the woman answering the phone said that they often reuse the drip edge but if it is to bad then they just don’t put it back, to save the homeowner money.
The crew doing the roof finished, packed up and left. The crew doing other work brought in new drip edge to install. Of course, the roof is done. I can’t believe they are going to try to put the drip edge on now, but that’s the plan.
The owner did not return my call today.
Should I let them install drip edge under new roof?
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It's a mistake on their part but it can be done if their careful. Make sure they get it fully under the felt. Not the best of situations but not the worst.
I'd look around tho and check to see if they forgot anything else.
I would check to make sure there installing drip edge not rake edge and as the above poster said look around did they "save" the home owner money by not flashing chimneys, dormers and booting pipes too? I would look to see if they used a starter course as well and make sure its staggered properly. As far as saving them money thats b.s. drip edge is 2-3 bucks a stick tops and labor to install it before the felt is minimal at best. If you can I would also check a few shingles to make sure there fastened properly ie: nailing schedules are correct for that shingle and application.
Edited 11/6/2008 1:26 am ET by xrcyst
what is "rake edge"?
BTW - "As far as saving them money thats b.s. drip edge is 2-3 bucks a stick tops and labor to install it before the felt is minimal at best. "
Here the going price for drip edge, installed, is around $1.25 a foot.
Here the going price for drip edge, installed, is around $1.25 a foot.
Yeah. Somebody forgot to order it with the other materials and they didn't want to wait while someone went to the store to get it. View Image
http://www.calibermetals.com/big.asp?ImgFile=c6.jpg&ImgTitle=C6 C Rake Edge
So why does the link call it "drip edge"?For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
we install.... and require our subs to install.... drip edge not only on the eaves , but also on the rakes
if someone told me they were going to save me money by not using the drip edge, or by reusing it....
they would never set foot on my job
if you haven't paid... i would get a meeting with the owner... and review the specs
download a roofing manual to see what is considered good practise.... before the meeting..
inspect your work.....and then make a punch list.... review it with the roofing owner
and write down his replys
let him know you will be perfectly happy to pay in full once the deficiecies are correctedMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for saving me the trouble to write all the same.
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It's much harder to do it after the roof is on, but it can be done.
There's never enough time to do it right the first time, but there's always time to re-do it.
View Image
A lot of quick-buck companies were touting to leave the old drip edge "because is matched the fasica", despite it was between 10 and 15 years old.... It just saves the roofing company time and spending a couple of hundred dollars..
Go back and check their work after it is installed.... They will have to lift the shingle and the starter shingle. If it cold, it'll probably crack them. While you're checking their work, if the new drip edge is nailed down, it will be but with very few nails... AND Then you'll see that they may have just slipped the new drip edge under the starter layer and the NAILED THROUGH IT. Usually not with but one or two large head shingle nail, but mostly a small 4penny, ungalv. nail with a small head so the quick work they put in on the installation it won't be seen.
I'm dealing with Lon Smith roofing...they now advertise on TV that they are in the top 25 companies in America.... The work is done with subcontracted workers...it just another job, done as fast as they can get away with. I've already turned in a PAGE of items not done, even though their "Inspector" checked off all 20 items on their "quality inspection list." I mean where Ice and Water shield and #30 lb felts was to be out to the front rake edge of dormers, BARE wood decking could be seen 6" back on both side of two dormer roofs. I've had worse roofers, but it would seem that the mistakes made by the roofing company are left to the customer to be found...either now are years later...
If you pay the company before all the things done, you have zero ability to get them back to redo or complete shoddy work... No matter what they say or how "nice" they say it don't give them a dollar until it's completed to yours or maybe a hired inspector's acceptable level.
I've had to learn this lesson the hard way. But, it is MY home and I AM paying the bill. Being a nice guy and getting the short end of the stick isn't my cup of tea... Being tough will last only a few weeks and until it's done right. Hopefully my roof will last Years...or until the next storm... ;>)
Bill
I'll be the salesmen you were dealing with got promoted to sales manager...
I'm telling you I'm NOT impressed with this company's personnel nor of it's performance to date....Matt,with your insight to such things, an old saying comes to mind:
"So goes the Boss, so goes the Company."....
Bill
Edited 11/6/2008 9:52 pm ET by BilljustBill
Yes - I whole heartily agree with that saying...
OTOH, the way I remember things you got your panties all in a wad because you were sure the roofing company was trying to cheat you big time when in actuality you didn't know the number of bundles per square for the shingles you were getting. It was a turn key bid! That means you get the job done for the x$ dollar amount that you agreed on. The amount of materials that are used are not your concern. Then you started counting rolls of felt... How many #s of nails to you figure they used?
Now you have other issues and just know that all roofing companies are low lifes and out to take advantage of the poor little home owners... Sounds to me like you didn't do a very good job of specifying what you wanted to start with.
I know it's tough as a HO. Been on that side of things too....
But.... more experienced people, like for example GCs, know how to control situations, know how to get what they want and know what to expect. There are good roofing companies out there so don't be mailing the OP on this thread a neuse just yet...
Personally, I prefer to deal with HOs as little as possible. And, yes, some are actually the kind of customers contractors don't want as customers.... Personally, I'd rather stay home and watch Oprah...
OTOH, the way I remember things you got your panties all in a wad because you were sure the roofing company was trying to cheat you big time when in actuality you didn't know the number of bundles per square for the shingles you were getting.
With the Armor Shield II, actually half a dozen roofing people, including salesman at Bradco, didn't know that this class 4 shingle was 3 bundles to the square due to the modified formula it's made of.... Everyone had to go look it up.
If a roofer/salesman sits down across from me and tells me I have 63.39 squares on these two roofs, and then says EACH square sells for $201 installed, then I understand the costs. But when the salesman AND his supervisor say their "Comfortable with the figures and measurements", then the actual bundle count used, including 15% waste, only comes to 50 squares, when completely done. I'm not paying for the ripout of the valley when no metal was put in, or coming back to cover bare decking when the I&Watershield was 6" from the rake edge of the dormer roofs, nor am I paying for 22 sheets of OSB they wrongly added on top of the patio roof's 22 sheets of new cdx plywood I WAS charged for in the contract. I'm not cutting anybody any slack that tries to cheat me and the insurance company, using DISHONEST tactics to up their bid and shortcuts on materials actually used....
The amount of materials that are used are not your concern. Then you started counting rolls of felt... How many #s of nails to you figure they used?
If you roof for a living, as a homeowner, what if I said the same thing to you... What kind of sense do those statements really make? I have the "Home Pak" Invoice listing all the materials they physically delivered for the roofing... like 3 cases of plastic caps, 33 rolls of #30 felt, but no 1-1/4" shingle nails are listed for their pneumatic nailers....Guess that's what the subcontractor figured in his charges, along with old and waste shingle disposal.
The good thing is that my roofs will last as long or longer than the neighbors' roofs that got hail, too, and my attitude and actions will go by the wayside long before a good roof goes bad.. No, I'm not saying all roofing companies are rotten, but I am saying that if you don't stay on top of the job, the odds of getting the actual quality of roof the company says you're buying are not good. If I gambled, I'd never take those odds and go to Vegas!!
Drip cap: One fellow I know lives, sells, and installs GAF roofing in Alanta, Georgia. He said they don't even use drip cap there.... Another fellow posted on another forum that he lives in Maine and has never used roofing felt under his shingles....but does use drip cap...
No matter where you live, there are different ways the building trades do things. BUT, I believe that NO MATTER where you live, RIGHT IS RIGHT AND ANYTHING SOLD TO YOU THAT IS LESS THAN WHAT IS WRITTEN ON A CONTRACT IS WRONG... period.
Bill ;>)
I went over today and they have put the drip edge up. It was raining and I didn't get out the ladder and see it up close. It is under the felt, but more I can't tell from the ground. Tomorrow I will check it out completely. Thanks for the information. I will count the nails on shingles and see how they nailed the drip edge down.
No money has changed hands yet, so I am in a good bargaining spot. The roof looks good and they did a good job cleaning up after themselves.
Marion
Here is a link to properroof flashing.
http://www.extremehowto.com/xh/article.asp?article_id=60348
Rich
Update:
Drip edge is on top of tar paper and under the starter course. They didn't put it on the back rake and the front rake was never removed.
The drip edge is firmly nailed on with roofing nails every three or four feet.
I had two whirly vents replaced. The one is not level and spinning okay. The other is not working.
The job looks okay. They cleaned up, except for a dozen old roofing nails left on roof under one of whirly vent.
They have about 120' of seamless gutter to install yet. I'm of half a mind to fax them a stop work order, until the owner talks to me about these other details.
As I think you know the drip edge is supposed to be under the paper on the eaves and over the paper on the rakes. Personally I don't think I'd make them re-do it though, but would derive some satisfaction in telling them they are DAes for doing it the way they did. That mistake It isn't gonna cause a big problem. It's just basic procedure. Most shingle install instructions show it.
Regarding the "whirly vents" they are supposed to be mostly level. If it is the kind I'm thinking of, sometimes called turbine vents, they can adjust them by simply turning the pipe joints in the stack portion. They can be hard to turn sometimes.
First of all, if its a conditioned building I hope you mean Ice and Rain shield at the eave, not tar paper.
Second if you payed these hacks anything, I hope it wasnt full payment. I would never pay these hacks off.
I wouldnt pay for that roof even if I had a judgement against me telling me to do so.
Good Luck.
If drip wasnt up on the roof before anything else I would have stopped them.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Insane, How in the world could a roofing company come out and not expect to replace the drip edge?
What savings? That equates to going to McDonalds and not getting a bun cause they thought they would let you reuse the last bun you ate.
I guess thats how some have chosen to weather the latest economic storm, by leaving half of their #### at home.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Around here, I see a lot of 'rake trim,' a 1x2 trim board, used in place of drip edge on the rakes.
Also seen profiled trims on rakes that did not get a drip edge.
The argument I have been given is that drip edge on the rakes is not necessary if this rake trim is in place.
I don't like it b/c it's a wooden member that serves as the drip instead of the metal flashing.
Usually when I see it, that trim is punky, peeling, not painted well...
However, off the shelf drip edge doesn't fit those trim pieces well, and looks crappy...
Thoughts?
I've always called that "Shingle Molding" and most often have seen it with wood shakes or wood shingles. Some are plain 1x2 and can easily be covered by DE. Some are actually profiled, and either are left as is or custom DE is made to not obscure the beaded profile.
A lot of comp shingle roofs w/that USED to be wood, hence the oddity of it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
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