Don’t know “bottom plate” is what you call it, but our 10 x 25 greenhouse was sitting on wood. Just a shoddy job from the previous owners!
Anyway, this 2 x 4 plate rotted out. I’m planning on putting a pressure treated 4 x4 under it and then putting it on those concrete blocks with the metal bracket.
The question is how to “treat” the exsisting 2 x 4 that has water and I guess you call it dryrot.
There is a product that has copper in it and was wondering if those are a good type thing to stop the dry rot
(as a dyi-er: how does wet rotted wood get called dry rot)
Thanks for any help
Replies
I will let the others anwers your question about treatment.
However, it might help to give more details. If it is really "rotted out" then you need to replace.
Since this is a greenhouse it is not typical house construction what does it support and how are the connections made.
"(as a dyi-er: how does wet rotted wood get called dry rot)"
By not being wet when inspected. Or in the cases like yours it probably means that there is no visiable water, with direct contact to the soil or concrete the moisture content of the wood is high enough to support fungus.
Now there is a true dry rot fungus, which I don't think that is in the US, where the fungus has "tenticals" from a water source that can be 10 or 100's of ft away.
But in most case "dry rot" just means that visible water is not present and by be caused by periodic wetting or moisture conducted into the wood.
Bill,Thanks. Lots of good info. This wood is so wet that so of the supports had termites. I've cleaned all those out. Sometimes I wish I had the skills to rebuild a structure like this.
@@ "Now there is a true dry rot fungus, which I don't think that is in the US, where the fungus has "tenticals" from a water source that can be 10 or 100's of ft away. " Yes, it's called Poria Incrasata (check my spelling) and it lives in Europe. We have a number of fungi lumped together as "brown cubical rot" because when they finish, the wood looks like brown sugar cubes. Do the job, though.The ToolBear
"Never met a man who couldn't teach me something." Anon.
Just setting it up on the timber may dry it out enough to stop the rot from getting worse. Depends how humid you keep the greenhouse.
csnow,Thanks. That's probably what I'll do as to rebuild it is beyond my level of technique.But is there a "solution" I can paint on the bottom to stop the current rot?
You can mix up a Borax solution to stop rot. It may leach out over time, but it would work if it stays mostly dry most of the time. Someone I know uses a borax/ethylene glycol mixture which seems to work well.
csnow,Thanks. Mabybe if someone know ratios they can post it...
Pretty sure it was just straight antifreeze saturated with borax.
Did a internet search and got this, looks pretty authoritative*************BORATE WOOD PRESERVATIVES:
COMMERCIAL AND HOME-BREWED Tim-Bor¯: Solid sodium octaborate; dissolves in water to make approx. a 10% solution containing 6.6% borate (B2O3); about $3/lb. plus shipping.
Ship-Bor¯: Same as Tim-Bor¯; $19.95/lb. plus $2 shipping.Bora-Care¯: 40% solution of sodium octaborate in ethylene glycol; 27% borate content; $70/gal. plus shipping.Home-Brew Water Solution of Borates: Based on U.S. Navy spec. of 60% borax-40% boric acid (this ratio gives the maximum solubility of borates in water); 65% water, 20 %borax, 15% boric acid; 15.8% borates; borax costs 54 cents/lb. (supermarket), boric acid costs about $4/lb. in drug stores (sometimes boric acid roach poison, 99% boric acid, is cheaper in discount stores); equiv. to Tim-Bor¯ or Ship-Bor¯ at 30 cents/lb. To make this solution mix the required quantities and heat until dissolved. The boric acid, in particular, dissolves slowly. This solution is stable (no crystals) overnight in a refrigerator (40°F.), so can be used at temperatures at least as low as 40°F.
Home-Brew Glycol Solution of Borates: This is equivalent to Bora-Care¯ diluted with an equal volume of glycol to make it fluid enough to use handily; 50% glycol antifreeze, 28% borax, 22% boric acid. To make a stable solution you mix the ingredients and heat till boiling gently. Boil off water until a candy thermometer shows 260°F. This removes most of the water of crystallization in the borax. This solution is stable at 40°F and has a borate content of 26%. With antifreeze at $6/gal. and borax and boric acid prices as above, this is equivalent to Bora-Care¯ at about $15/gal.
Good stuff. I suppose the Boric acid serves to create a roughly neutral mix, since Borax has a pH of 9.
BTW, you can get Boric Acid packaged as a "Roach Killer" in many stores. One brand is "Victor".
Thanks. I'll check. That Bora care seems expensive...
On the topic of "wood rot:" Can anyone identify a form of rot that turns the wood to a kind of flakey red residue? I took a 2x4 sister off the side of a 2x10 floor joist in an old house and found a gash in the side of the 2x10, bark coming off, and that kind of red residue in it. Since it had been there for 75 years, I didn't do anything to ameliorate it, now that 2x10 has 2x10 sisters either side. Could I still remediate by drilling 1/8" holes in from the top and pouring in borate? Could some kind of epoxy consolidant be used afterwards?I started taking this more seriously after I found a similar kind of thing happening on top of one of the sisters, but a few feet from the original trouble area. Might be that kind of brown sugar cube someone referred to, though in this case it was red. I was able to dig it out and I'll be filling in the space with some epoxy putty.
Kind of off my orginal post. But I'm seeing the "large" ants in the house, but I don't have any wet wood. I wonder if they live with the termites I saw in the greenhouse and got displaced?
"as a dyi-er: how does wet rotted wood get called dry rot"
Even though the term 'dry rot' is used for a wide variety of decays (mostly because when the rotted wood is discovered it is dry - even though it had to have been wet at some point for the fungus to tagke root), technically Dry Rot is a specific fungus that can live in wood & has runners or roots that can reach several feet to get the moisture it needs to live.
Dry Rot still needs moisture to get started, but even if the wood dries out, the fungus does not go dormant because of the runners.
> There is a product that has copper in it and was wondering if those are a good type thing to stop the dry rot
The Jasco product "Termin-8" (copper napthenate) is an excellent long term treatment against both termites and fungal rot. It has a strong petrochemical smell for the first couple weeks after you apply it. We made a "temporary" wooden walkway out of Doug fir and Termin-8, it's still in good shape in direct contact with the ground after being "temporary" for 34 years.
This treatment will kill the fungus and stop the rot that it touches. But it won't affect rot that it doesn't reach, and it won't do anything to restore wood that's already rotten. You need to replace the bad stuff, and treat everything.
The borates are only good if they stay dry. Rain or a squirt from watering plants will wash them away.
-- J.S.
Woodguard (copper quinolate) is a product that is made for protecting log homes.
I was going to use that for protecting my framing during construction (building my own house), but Huberwood (maker of Advantech sheathing & subflooring) recommends against using oil based sealers (which woodguard contains) on their product. However from your description, it seems like it would be excellent.