It’s been a very bad day. I said and thought things today I shouldn’t have. Now I”ll try to turn it around and try to get a sense of humor about it. With that in mind, I’ll share the dryer vent from hades story. If ya need a chuckle, feel free to have one at my expense on this one. To appreciate the full horror of this story, I’ll include each savory detail.
Scenario: Townhome, built 1978. HO calls me 5 weeks ago, needs subfloor replaced due to leaky toilet. Insurance adjuster visits HO, tears hole in ceiling, and accidentally tears the vinyl dryer vent in the joist bay below the toilet as he was trying to move it out of the way. This vinyl was very brittle, slight moving of it caused it to tear very easily. Upon tearing the vent it is disclosed that the dryer vent is literally CAKED with lint, the 4″ opening reduced to virtually 2″, vent was prob never cleaned once in its 27yr history. HO asks me to repair subfloor and “splice” together the dryer vent (they didn’t understand it was clogged). I informed HO that the dryer vent is clogged BADLY. I sell the HO on replacing the entire vent pipe with aluminum (about 12′ worth which necessitates cutting the DW along the joist bay over to the exterior wall. HO says great, you got the job. Started it today (yes I have a 5 week backlog), wished I stayed in bed.
So here’s what happened.
I cut a hole in the DW to explore what’s in the bay. Straw, twigs, dirt and the like fall from the hole. Figured it was a mouse nest or something. Kept going, it kept getting worse, I channeled out about 6′ of bay and nothing but a constant stream of dirt, grass, straw, twigs poured out with each piece of DW I ripped down. The by itself was packed full of this crap up to about 6′ from the exterior wall. IT SMELLED HORRID. I was gagging seriously, almost had to run outside to puke. Never smelled anything that bad, foul, disgusting, like a cross between a sweaty athlete sock, an accompanying sweaty shoe, a bad case of Halitosis, rotting meat, I mean it smelled HORRID!!!!!! I was beginning to smell as horrid as the crap kept falling on me.
Investigated the dryer vent next and saw it was “cut in half” about 1 foot before it exited the exterior wall. Not only that it was CHOCK FULL of the same crap that had been falling on me. I mean this vent pipe was packed tight. If the dryer vent hadn’t been clogged it still wouldn’t have worked due to being cut in half, it’d just have blown into the bay instead of outside. But in this case, it was cut in half, and clogged solid. HO said the dryer always “worked fine, the clothes always dried.” Asked if it took an extraordinary long time the answer was that it “takes a while, but they dry in the dryer.” After seeing the mess in front of me I conclude the HO knows nothing and that it’s impossible the dryer had been venting to the outside in quite some time. HOs daughter says “we’re always burning out the heater elements in the Dryer, though, we’re not sure why it keeps going thru them.” Ok, so the HOs daughter hasn’t a clue either.
I go outside and view vent cap. Louvers are stuck open, no screen. I dismantle what’s left, feathers and crap and more puking smell abound. Obviously birds found a warm home and used the vent pipe to nest.
I bid the job replacing the vent with smooth aluminum duct. As I opened the remainder of the bay Iwas greeted with three surprises….three PVC drain lines, all conviently in the way of installing metal round duct (it was the 90 degree fittings that were actually in the path). I determine the aluminum duct will squish enough out of the way so I stick with my plan to use AL duct. I get over to the exterior wall and another nasty surprise……a 1 1/2″ PVC 90 ell is directly in front of 1/4 of the 4″ exit hole in the exterior wall. AL duct ain’t gonna bend around that. The ell was about 1 1/2″ in front of the dryer vent hole. No straight run was possible with AL. What to do….
I run to HD and get the rigid accordian style AL duct that you pull apart to increase length. I figure I can’t use my solid AL anymore, but maybe this other stuff will work and allow me to make that tight of bend to the exterior hole. Nope, wouldn’t work. The AL accordian duct kept ripping everytime I’d try to make it compress against the PVC fittings or it would bend so much into a tight oval in those locations that it seemed to be the wrong way to do it.
I trudge back to HD again, this time i get the 5 layered flimsy foil-like duct in a 20′ length. I figured it was the only way since before t hey had the same thing but in vinyl installed. It worked, I was able to make the tight bend arouind the 1 1/2″ drain fitting to do my straight run now t hru the bay. I made the straight run, then compresed it again the 3″ PVC fittings that were in the way further into the joist bay. the duct flexed good around those, though it’s still oval shaped in those locations.
Next I go to replace the vent hood with a new one with a critter screen. GEt high up on the ladder and the @#$# thing won’t go in the hole. The hole was BARELY 4″. The 4″ AL flex duct wouldn’t go thru it. Out comes the sawzall to give the hole a little room for the flex duct and vent hood. Fussed with that a while, finaly got everything put together, turned on dryer and voila, positive airflow coming from the vent hood.
The lady didn’t get the AL duct in rigid form as promised. But she got an AL duct, just the flexible variety. Tomorrow the DW goes up for the patch and mudding begins. I hope tomorrow is better than today.
I took THREE SHOWERS to get the smell off me. The first time after I got the old duct down I ran home to shower, ready to puke along the way. The other two times were this evening when it was apparent taht I still smelled horridly disgusting. I think I”m clean now My kids wouldn’t come near me, they said they wanted to puke. Also, on the trip home I had a contractor trash bag full of the debris of which contained the foul smelling stuff. So I got to enjoy the smell in my fact all the way home in the van.
It was a great day today. NOT!!!!! Thank God her dryer vent is now done.
Replies
You may be setting her up for another failure.
Good Reading.
http://www.fixitnow.com/appliantology/dryervent.htm
Good luck.
Dutch, I'm gonna print the article to give to the woman. There is absolutely no way to use rigid metal, the plumbing is in the way, need something that will compress, that's why I was forced to use the UL accordian flimsy AL, not the accordian rigid AL. I can't believe the dang drain is right smackin the way of the exit hole to the outside. This house was poorly designed.
While I on the ladder I had access to view the neighbors vent. I opened the louvers figuring I'd see the same thing. At least theirs had a critter screen on it. But what I saw took the cake over the one I was working on. What I saw was, the entire white vinyl duct was COMPLETELY smushed up against the critter screen. Ain't no way in H.E.Double L that the neighbors dryer is venting, no lint it either. prob never worked since the day it was installed. I'll tell the HO to share this paper with the neighbor. I might get another job from it. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
"There is absolutely no way to use rigid metal, the plumbing is in the way, need something that will compress, that's why I was forced to use the UL accordian flimsy AL, not the accordian rigid AL."Hey, you had your sawzall it seem with a little "creative" cutting of joist or pipes you could have gottne clearnace <G>.But I am not familar with the 2 types of AL accordian pipe.The only one that I am familar with is a "heavy duty foil" that is embosed with spiral pattern which both gives it stiffness and also the expansion.IIRC it comes about 3ft long and can expand to 8ft.
The only one that I am familar with is a "heavy duty foil" that is embosed with spiral pattern which both gives it stiffness and also the expansion
Yeah, what we call Viagra-duct around here!cheers
***I'm a contractor - but I'm trying to go straight!***
Bill, I was tempted to be creative with the sawzall, good idea, maybe next time LOL
There is rigid aluminum duct, kinda like steel metal ducting used in HVAC but is AL instead. Not accordian style.
Then there is the rigid like accordian style AL duct that you pull to length up to 8 ft and if you bend it, kink it, whatever, it stays that way like AL foil.
Then there is the 5ply flexible AL type. OK maybe it's not real AL, but it's real thin and flexible like AL Foil, very similar to the vinyl variety but is shiny AL lookalike. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Could be worst. that our house catch on fire, dirty lint vents.
"Then there is the 5ply flexible AL type. OK maybe it's not real AL, but it's real thin and flexible like AL Foil, very similar to the vinyl variety but is shiny AL lookalike."I have never seen that. Does it have wire support like the vinyl ones?
It's a little late to second guess the job... but...
Did you consider moving the whole shebang to the next bay over? You were already into the job for a length of drywall repair so what's another 16" wide or so?
That is exactly what I was thinking as I read the thread.In for a pound, in for a dollar. You already had things torn up. Might as well tear it up a bit more, and move the duct over one bay.That and thinking how easily pvc plumbing cuts and glues...
Are we there yet ?
Ralph, actually yes I did consider it and quickly abandoned the idea because if you saw the W/D setup in the utility room and observed that right beside the W/D was the HVAC unit, totally blocking the way to get into the opposite joist bay, not to mention about 8" of clearance between the Plenum and wall, it just wasn't possible unless some demolitoin of the HVAC trunk was done. Then again, I did have the sawzall out :)
Sucks cuz I want my name on a quality job, not the status quo. As it was I merely replaced the junk that was already there with something else inferior. Not my style, but....can't win 'em all. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Well, you had a sawzall. Why let a little thing like a drain pipe ell stand in your way? That plastic cuts real easy!(Hey! It's the way the plumbers do it to the carps!)
<<< "...can't win 'em all..." >>> There it is-
I have never seen that. Does it have wire support like the vinyl ones?
Bill, yes. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Hey,
Seems to me that ALL of these townhomes need a new vent (1978?). When you hand her the printout casually mention "I'm amazed there hasn't been a fire" and they'll start calling!
I'd get a mondo shop vac and one of those real long hoses first tho' now that you know what to expect.
;-)
Attention ALL City Plan Checkers. Make ALL dryer locations be on an exterior wall. 20' ducts in townhomes are just no damn good.
> When you hand her the printout casually mention "I'm amazed there hasn't been a fire"
TLC or Discovery had a show on the cruise ship "Ecstasy" fire. $17 mil in damage, all from dryer vent lint.
We used to have a problem here in my office with birds nesting in the restroom exhaust duct. I put up a sign that said "Whomp on the plenum with the umbrella handle to scare the birds out before you turn on the fan. Otherwise, the fan will kill them and make the place stink."
-- J.S.
So,? seems like just another day on the job.
LOL, just another day on the job, slighly more smelly.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Interesting story and all too familiar. - lol
Unfortunately, your fix will probably be temporary at best. Even a straight, smooth, duct run will eventually collect enough lint to seriously degrade the dryers performance.
Tell your customer to religiously clean the dryer lint trap after every load and have the dryers internal lint ducting cleaned out annually. It's a pain, but it's better than ripping out the ceiling every few years. - lol
Yeh, Dave, I already made it a point to tell them. Indeed the flex AL duct is still "turbulent" inside and bound to collect lint. No other choice. Tried like crazy to find a way to make smooth metal work, couldn't unless I'd destroy all the plumbing. They had the old dryer vent all smushed up inside the bay against the plumbing. Sickening. As always, my motto is when you think you've seen all the bizarre things in life, just wait another day and you're bound to find something else far worse still.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
What! No yellowjackets! No Romex, phonewire, or antenna leads running through the vent/duct?
Another job from 7734.
Great story, better luck in the future.
A have a sort-of related question: Why is 4" aluminum better to use than 4" galvanized (like the stuff used in HVAC)? Anybody? I used the galvy and notice a lot of lint building up on the outside of the house, especially in winter. I'm guessing condensation.- Toolfreak
I have 4" galvanized at my house. The aluminum would probably be a bit better since it won't corrode, but mine has been there for 25 yrs and is doing fine.
The amount of lint entering the duct - and hopefully passing thru - would depend on a couple of things including -
what's being dried (towels, sweats, flannel, jeans, etc positively ooze lint)
how often the dryer lint trap is cleaned (I insist that ours be cleaned after each load)
how often (if ever) the lint path inside the dryer is cleaned.
When my daughters were still living here, the dryer wasn't drying well so I went under the house, opened up the duct, and gave it a good cleaning. When I came out (with most of the lint in a bucket), I told them that if I had to do it again, they were going under there with me. The dryer worked great for the next few years. - lol
Can you come down on the price ?
carpenter in transition
Can you come down on the price ?
I think you meant to say go up, right?If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
lucky he didn't get canned for smelling up the house.
Organic vapor respirators work wonders in situations like this.
I ended up using one to clean out the pig pen, back when we had pigs once (pigs live up to their reputation of being the foulest-smelling farm animals, as their diet is so similar to ours, if you get my drift).
I was by there yesterday with a lawyer- he thinks the flex is in contact with the gas line.
what does your lawyer say?
ya haven't smelled stink till ya muckrake a horse stall, but this ordeal smells awful close.
I agree with Luka, smooth 4" pvc pipe might be best for this job.
very entertaining story.
now what happens when the tube temps exceed 100*F and it begins to off gass or it plastizes at 130*????
Since pvc is already used to carry hot water(and vapor) at 110 to 130, I fail to see how this material could not also be used here.
are you sure that's not CPVC???
according to the ppfahome website (a pvc reference), regular pvc has a max. temp rating of 140F. cpvc would be even stronger, as you suggest, and has a higher temp. rating. I think this would work; perhaps it's foolish?
since PVC is chloride based... guess what you get with off-gassing...
CPVC in 3 or 4 inch dollar wise would knock yur socks off... if you can find it... stainless would be cheaper...
so what is wrong with metal...
stainless or other is fine. the cheap flex stuff tears like rice paper.
yep, a metal to metal connection would be best....
Edited 6/30/2005 3:48 pm ET by jackplane
To me, metal (aluminum ducting) is cheap enough compared to PVC, or CPVC for that matter. A 5' section only cost me 5.72. I needed 3 for 15 feet of run, to me $15 is cheap insurance.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
look into snap-lock galv... IMHO it's better for this apploication than Al...
may be cheaper too...
Edited 6/30/2005 11:57 pm ET by IMERC
It may be cheaper. The AL was snap-lock also FWIW.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
the galv is much heavier duty and higher temp stable over AL.
Don't forget that it also has to vent gas dryers.And dryer fires are not uncommon.
the burn process gives him cyanide... cooking gives up chlorine gas...
let's not go there...
A plumber told me a story of a dryer vented into a crawl space. Lint fortified cobwebs everywhere. He was young and inexperienced and fired up a torch in there. An explosive fire engulfed the crawl space, and luckily the fire went out as fast as it had started. He emerged coughing, covered in soot, hair singed, heart pounding and eyes like saucers.
Thje blast was probably good for him, in that he didn't have to breathe quite as many mold fumes. I had a call to a fourplex aprt once for a "roof leak"I could find nothing wrong with the six year old roof, so I climbed into the attic above where the cieling was spotting. The dryer duct ended immediately above the insulation amidst a bushel of lint and all the moisture you could imagine. The insulation was soppped and mold was hanging everywhere. At the time, I was just a roofer, so I recommended that they find a HVAC guy to correct it.
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some dryer thermostats cycle at 145.The thermal fuse on a dryer is set higher
No way is horse worse than pig! Even chicken isn't worse than pig! I've worked with all the common farm animals, & I would rate them, worst to not- so-bad; Pig, chicken, cow, horse, sheep& goats...definitely agree about the organic odor respirator, in any case. It is also just the ticket for dead & rotten anything.
My present house had many dead rodents, a couple of cats, & the first mummified oppossum I've ever encountered, but the were mostly at the bottom of plastered wall cavities, & nice & dry.
Horse smells sweet compared to chicken
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I know a guy who, when he passes gas, or whatever it is that comes out that end, that it's prudent for everyone to evacuate within a 5 mile radius. Still, the smell I had on Monday with the vent, would give this fella a run for his money IMHO.
If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
that sweet odor of horse manure upon arriving in the countryside is far different than raking out a stall that's been fermenting for weeks.
no comment on pigs, never worked with them, except that folks here say it's much worse.
Edited 6/30/2005 9:41 am ET by jackplane
raised around ponies. I know all the subtle flavours
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I didn't mean use pvc pipe.I meant cut the pvc pipe that is in the way, and replace it with pieces cut so they are out of the way.Move the obstructions, don't try to wind around them.
Are we there yet ?
most electric dryers have a $30 thermal element that blows on overheating, and does not reset (you must replace it).maybe someone has hot wired around it. the reduced duct size you mention should have many times over burned out the thermal element
In the case of this HO, she remarked that they had to replace the dryer heater element several times since they lived there. They had the W/D before moving there, no problems. This is a single mom, divorced rather, husband stiffed her (keep your mind clean), then moved to this town home, started blowing elements.
While outside today cutting this ladys new subfloor the neighbor came over inquired what the woman was doing to her home. Told him toiled seal leaked, rotted floor, discovered bad dryer vent along the way and replaced it. He remarked that "none of the ?#@# dryers work in these homes, ours takes 3hrs to dry a load of towels." I'm not kidding. I explained that I looked at the OTHER neighbors dryer vent while I was up on the ladder and saw the vent was all smushed up to the exit hole and that ain't no way THEIR dryer works. He said maybe his is the same but said his is a connuption of elbows because his has a fireplace and they had to do a bunch of turns to get out past the chimney. I'm thinking, "some a-hole developer really made a killing on building crappy cheap townhomes." I might be able to make a fortune in this townhome development just replacing dryer vents. Geesh. If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
Pyro,Do you think any of these people might be desperate enough for well vented dryers that they would consider running the vent pipe suspended from the ceiling, instead of buried in it ?
Are we there yet ?
Have you updated your forum profile lately? Please Do!
Luka - I was just thinking the same thing. Move the vent down a few inches into the room, put up a 6" false soffit if need be, or a nice shelf unit to hide it in, go straight out the wall, close up the old one, done. Dryer works right. Nice safe clean metal pipe.
Bring a gang box, lotsa ladders, couple helpers, do 'em by the dozen. Don
I dunno, maybe, I can always ask and see.If at first you don't succeed, try using a hammer next time...everything needs some extra persuasion from time to time. -ME
The soffit Don suggested is exactly what I was thinking.I have seen a lot of soffits for that purpose in utility rooms, over the years. That small soffit space seems to me to be very little to sacrifice, for a well running and efficient dryer...
Are we there yet ?
Have you updated your forum profile lately? Please Do!
Heck, you might even sell them a cabinet to fit under it, if you work it right.
Did my shortest dryer vent in history. Dryer backed up to outside wall into carport all I had to do was slide a long outside tube with vent cover to the back of dryer took five minutes hole was already there.
ANDYSZ2
PS I checked my vent pipe and its full of lint so this weekend I am breaking out the shopvac and air hose while running dryer to try and clean out.
I MAY DISAGREE WITH WHAT YOUR SAYING BUT I WILL DEFEND TO THE DEATH YOUR RIGHT TO SAY IT.
Remodeler/Punchout
Edited 7/1/2005 6:08 pm ET by ANDYSZ2
Take it gently, Andy - very few duct systems will stand up to much abuse. I'm thinking of investing in one of those snakes with a 4" brush on the end.
I usually see a fair amount of lint caked on the bottom of the ducting and it takes some brushing to get it cleaned out.
When I get calls about slow dryers, I have people run a test to see if the problem is with the dryer - or the vent.
Pull the dryer out and disconnect the vent line. Cut a leg from a pair of pantyhose and connect it to the dryer vent with a 4" hose clamp then run a load of towels or sweats. Nine times out of ten, they're blown away by how quickly the load dries. - lol
This isn't a permanent fix, but it's a quick way to demonstrate that the problem isn't with the dryer. Customers are also usually relieved to know that they don't have to pop for a new dryer.
Aww Pyro-
What an opportunity for some pics.
Sounds like you would have won a prize.