Hi Everyone:
I just started working for a contractor months ago. Learning curve has been quite steep but I am getting up to speed in some facets of the job. We’ll be hanging drywall for the next week and a half. Here’s my question….and it’s a big vague one too: What are some pointers you can throw my way as far as ‘tips’ to save time, cut back on mistakes and generally just make me look good to the new boss?
Much appreciated everyone…
JP
Replies
Keep a short SurForm plane in your pouch to scrub the cut edges.
Keep the knife blade clean (with spit).
Double-check everything overhead - otherwise half will be mirror-imaged.
Dont cram the first piece in the corner - the second piece will cover a gap.
Back-up blocking prevents cracks.
Lay out joints with an eye to the motion of taping and finishing them - ie, not 6" off and parallel to the floor.
Forrest - all I can think of now
I'm more of a general remodler, but do quite a bit of drywall.
When I do drywall, I try to appraoch "perfection" a little at a time--meaning: when mudding, I put the first coat on not too thick (the depth of the mud, not its consistency--I use it right from the tub, don't have time to screw with adding water and stirring and so forth and I've found it works fine from the tub, though others may disagree). Go quickly and don't fuss with it--don't try for perfectly full and flat right off--the mud will shrink as it dries anyway. We always use mesh tape, so the tape is on before I start any mudding. If you use paper, you'll probably want to fill the joints first and let that dry before bedding the tape in compound.
On the screw heads, I use moderate pressure and make an "x" on each one--one stroke applies the mud and the other takes away excess. I do that every time I see a dimple where a screw is for subsequent coats too.
After the first coat has dried, just scrape any blobs or high spots and streaks with a drywall knife (same knife you use to put the compound on). Don't sand. [Here's where I differ with lots of people--lots of people seem to like to sand and they blob the compound on thick and sand off between every coat--I hate doing that--I don't like sanding, it wastes time, gets dust all over and it roughs up the paper.] Put second coat of mud on. Feather a little beyond first. I use a corner knife for inside corners. Again, don't use too much mud, but use enough that it is sort of piling up a bit ahead of your knife as you go. The longer the strokes the better (I love low ceilings where I can just walk the length of the joint and drag my knife in one or two strokes, but that is seldom possible).
Oh, keep the compound bucket clean! Scrape it down and dip out of it with a clean knife! Never put old crud from your knife into the bucket--fling that into the trash or into another bucket just for that purpose, otherwise that junk or bits of partially dried mud will cause big streaks in your work. Guy I work with is always "polluting" the tub with bits of dried mud and then you have to work all the harder to make a nice smooth mud bed.
When second is dry, scrape and do third. When dry, scrape and then sand, then use a light to bounce light at a shallow angle and close to the wall to accentuate flaws--using raking light like this will make strong shadows and will show up low spots. Fill in any low spots or nicks, really pressing pretty hard with the knife--with luck you will just need a little hand sanding after this dries.
There are other tricks to how hard you press and at what angle you use the knife--ususally low angle and little pressure to start a stroke and gradually lift the handle of the knife and increase pressure at end of strokes. Usually first stroke at low angle and pressure puts the mud down and the next stroke over it with more pressure and higher angle flattens it out.
Anyway, that's what I do, but I'm not really a professional drywaller. I'm sure others will have other advice (some conflicting with mine--welcome to Breaktime). Welcome to Breaktime and the world of construction!
#1 rule -- Don't cover any electrical outlets without somehow marking where they are. Ask what his preferred technique is (eg, on the floor, or on the rock itself) and don't hang a piece without double-checking that everything's marked.
(Now, if you'd asked for GOOD advice I'd tell you to look into a different line of work.)
For someone new to sheetrock: don't set sheets down on the corners. Don't try to force a sheet into place since it will just crack or break off an edge--cut everything at least 1/4" shy of the opening and use the surform rasp to take off long spots.
Nail or screw at least 2" from any corner or you look like a rookie. If the rock underneith ever cracks on a corner it's better to cut the surface paper and flake out the rock or cracks are likely to occur. The space is easily filled with quick set.
If you boss is small potatoes and hasn't used quickset on gaps larger than 1/4" prior to taping you might suggest it. It's much easier to fill a number of large gaps than it is take the time to cut everything to under 1/4".
Against the floor there should be a 1/2" gap so water on the floor doesn't wick into the rock.
It's probably most common to use a hammer and a few sheetrock nails to hold the sheet in place and screws after it's all up.
Keep all screws and nail heads slightly below the surface, but don't break the paper. If you break the paper put another screw 1"-2" away.
Go to http://www.usg.com and register to download their installation manual. There's a lot in there, but it's good to have as a reference.
If you are working for an experienced crew they will show you exactly how they want you to do everything. Try to stay in their rythem and ask a lot of questions.
If you are buying tools get the surform rasp, keyhole saw, a rock hammer and a pocket size sheet lifter. Eventually you'll also want a big t-square, full size sheetrock saw for odd or angled straight cuts, rotozip, and good quality sheetrock screw driver.
Before you start ask your boss how they straighten the framing. Hopefully someone will check the framing and use sheetrock shims (1/16" cardboard strips sold at Lowes or most decent lumber yards) and an electric hand plane to take out the worst unevenness. If he's never heard of that before say, "It's simple. Just use a 6' level laid against the wall and mark the studs with a +1 or -1 for every 1/16" that needs to be added or taken away from the studs." Use short drywall nails or staples to hold the shims in place.
Oh yeah, take pliers and pull the metal button off the top of your ball cap. Of course you won't do it until the first overhead sheet gets to rest on your noggin. :-)
Have fun.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
Don:
Thanks for all your time and sage advice.... much appreciated...
JP
Thanks for all your time and sage advice....
Hopefully it is worth every cent! :-)
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.
I fly all my ends... ie i prefer not to land on a stud with the ends... i rip up every scrap of 1/2" or better osb or plywood sheet goods (prefer 3/4") into 48" strips aprox 3" wide... i try to keep a few around 52" for mid wall runs... hang a sheet and let the end fly.... screw your strip to the fly'n edge leave'n a 1 1/2" above or below to catch a couple screws as the nex sheet passes over...
for me/my guys this saves a ton of time, makes a better finished product in my opinion and cuts waste way down..
p
"hang a sheet and let the end fly.... screw your strip to the fly'n edge leave'n a 1 1/2" above or below to catch a couple screws as the nex sheet passes over..."
Interesting technique. Do you use this method on ceilings too?New knowledge is priceless.
Used knowledge is even more valuable.
<<Interesting technique. Do you use this method on ceilings too?>>
Good question. I've tried imagining how this method saves time or materials. The only place I ever scab a joint would be on long runs where cutting would add a butt joint. Otherwise I can only see it being practical if a lot of the studs are twisted or bent.
Edited 3/19/2007 12:07 pm ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
ceilings also... yes... everywhere.... on ceilings i try to make sure i have some 52" strips to catch passing boards... we never try to make an end of a sheet land anywhere but in a corner... about all we use is 12ft board mostly 5/8"
is it faster? it is for us... nothing to measure as far as where your butt joints land... we do this on wood & metal studs... really helps on metal where the drywall passes behind wall intersections... takes 30 seconds to screw on the backer strip...
i think we get a better finished product... i've never been a fan of butt joints on a stud where you have nails or screws 1/2" from the edge... with the backer strip you can screw 1" out and be fine...
guess it's all what you are comfortable with and how you plan ahead.. all sheet good drops get ripped on the table saw and stacked so we'll always have em ... just less to end up in the dumpster... even the shorter ones get used around sprinker pipes ect..
p
Pretty inventive, I'd say. Particularly if you have guys who can't read a tape properly. I like the idea of holding the nails/screws away from the butt joints too. Keep the tapers happy or you'll pay, somewhere down the road.
I've used a similar method, with rock to rock screws, many times but never understood it as 100% legitimate. Maybe it was just a nervous union foreman who gave me that impression. None of those metal stud, commercial jobs are particularly memorable, for me anyway. Noise and dust, humping 5/8X12s, concrete floors, no sunlight. Eeeeck. Finally realized that topping off was the job to have so I applied my talents to imaginative cutting and got away from the heavier end of it.
I have had pretty good luck with Buttboards. Same as what ponytl is mentioning, but, it has raised edges and recessed center. This causes the joint to be slightly beveled. The tape and mud is then put on in the recess similar to a factory taper, allowing for a flatter finish.
Here is a link for you.
http://www.ezbacker.com/rock_splicer.html
i use to try for the taper... I'd make my boards wider and use strips of cardboard (spary glued on) on each side then screw in the center form'n/force'n a shallow taper... just wasn't worth the effort for me... if i had somewhere where i thought it'd show and i was going for super super slick... think i'd do it again...
p
Thanks for the link. I've been away from that end of the trade for more than ten years now, thank goodness. It's good to know about those inventions. I'll be building a new home for myself soon and that's one area of improvement I'll gladly look into, now that you've given me the info.
I've been interested in trying butboards for some time now. I have one question. When doing walls, what about the top and bottom plates. Won't they forbide the drywall from bending back at the top and bottom per the purpose of the butboard. Or because it will be covered in corner mud and baseboard it won't matter?
Chuck
I haven't noticed it to be a problem. I also use No Coat Ultraflex 325 on my corners, so they are built up a bit.
I've heard of going this scheme one further, and placing shims on the edges of the splice board, so that the screws would draw the edges in a little.
So convenient a thing it is to be a reasonable Creature, since it enables one to find or make a Reason for everything one has a mind to do. --Benjamin Franklin
I've done this but only when I had to with odd stud spacing or odd leftover pieces. Can't see any reason not to do it all the time. There is never a shortage of ply/osb scraps.
I could never get away with it here in NJ. Customers and builders alike would not like the idea of not breaking on studs.
I'm in NJ too and I've gotten away with it... so far... (maybe I should be posting this anonymously)
One particular job was a low ceiling in a sunken family room. As one approached the room, but before stepping down, the ceiling was just above eye level with a row of windows at the far end. I wanted to completely elimate the classic butt joint hump. It worked out well.
-Don
TR,
Rent or buy a drywall jack, you and your coworker will be on much better terms after the ceiling is up.
Saw
rotozip,10 inch blade. drywall lift, screwgun. and a flood light
You just asked for a book.
You might try Myrons book sold on this site . I havent read it.
Youre going to have to gain the experience like every one else . It would help if you had a good teacher . If you do , dont worry about it.
Stay busy and keep moving . Use your head all the time on the next move . Seconds count in drywall . If you delivered a down stroke then figgure somthing to do comming back up. Left to right , then right to left with your hands loaded. Dont shoot BS and dont answer it . Keep your mind on what you are doing every second. If you need a break , let the apron hit the floor and walk away from it. When the apron goes on you need to be all business . If you do that you will not only impress your boss but become valuble to your self in the future. Thats how to make money and more of it .
Work ethic is the first thing to learn with drywall.
Tim
You learned the trade when it was less than $0.20/ ft. didn't you?
Dave
Cheaper than that .
I started hanging for .05cents per ft and finished for .10.
Tim
Hey I got plenty of work for you!
Im too old.
Tim
I started at 0.19/ft hung and finished. Couldn't afford the Ames tools, so used a wet tape banjo. Hired help to hang and did all the finishing alone. The last big residential job was in 77,....lost my arse on the dw, but broke even with the decks and cabinet install I picked up. I went commercial after that and learned to sub the high volume stuff to guys like you.
Dave
I would not doubt that everyone loses their arse when they start contracting drywall.
Or work for wages.
I know I did when I started.
Ive had several different busineses in my life time and one thing remains the same with them all is that we have to learn the business. Its like this guy asking for pointers and thats great hes asking but everyone has to jump off the clift of experience.
Drywall isnt hard to learn compared to other trades but is one of the hardest to learn to make money since the profit margin is so low compared to others.
It always provided year around work in any kind of weather so at least it was above some of the others in that sense.
The way to make money at drywall is volume . Thats what there is to learn mostly and bottom line which goes with any business . You have to manage time and be a minute manager. If you manage minutes , the rest will fall in line .
Tim
drywall easy to make money, hire mexicans
If you can find the time, try to locate a crew of pro rockers who will let you watch and ask questions. A drywall supplier is a good place to make that kind of contact. Check the yellow pages under "drywall equipment and supplies".
Otherwise, don't worry about looking like you know what you're doing when you don't. Your boss doesn't expect you to do anything but hold up your end of the board and pay attention. You'll learn quickly enough like that.
Edited 3/18/2007 7:36 pm ET by Hudson Valley Carpenter
All these guys are right, so I'm not going to try to confuse you with any other techniques.
But...
1. keep an eye on your bosses technique and copy him. You'll find that every contractor has their own ways of doing things. The only way that really matters is the bosses way. Follow his lead and you'll be all right.
2. Don't screw up!
Dave
P.S.
It's nice to talk to some close by.
Were preactically neighbors. I'm in Fonthill.
Dave
Hudson said it best. Get the basic tools, pay attention, and practice. Do it for 20 years and then we'll see what ya got.
<<Do it for 20 years and then we'll see what ya got>>
He'll have sciatica, that much we can promise.
I subbed drywall with another guy for a few months, one winter. We got pretty fast, after we figured out how to attack the two story, three bedroom apartments we were doing. But I started every day with back pain and was glad to see the end of that job.
Our best day was one full unit in eight hours. 104 twelve foot boards, 5/8" ceilings and 1/2" walls, all windows wrapped. We were working in cold air, average about 20 degrees, wearing heavy clothes and cotton gloves which slowed us down some. But the framing was pretty good and we were allowed to cut the plastic boxes in place so that evened things out, I'd say.
Good side to the inside.
Put a sponge or rag in your ball cap to save your head when you are hanging ceiling rock.
Get Myron Ferguson's book on Drywall.
http://www.drywallschool.com/
Awesome site.......you rock.
Cheers
JP
Sorry about the time delay…
I saw this and remembered a thread on this subject that I saved, but never got around to sharing with you.
If anyone else already gave it out, I apologize.
Check out this link a lot of good tips. (that’s why I saved it)
http://forums.prospero.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=45815.1
Dan019
thanks Dan