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"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
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Very thorough article. Never heard the word cladding referred to in reference to framing though. Is he talking about plywood shearing maybe?
Mike
Trust in God, but row away from the rocks.
I got confused on page 4 when he talked about primers and sealers. I thought they were the same thing but he's saying they aren't. Anyone care to explain? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
A primer is a coating that goes to a surface and the finished coatings.It's purpose is to helpd bond the two, seal porosity, seal stains, be easy to sand and give a uniform base for the top coats.As there are many different substrated, different top coats, and different problems there are many different primers.A sealer is just a primer that main function is limited to sealing the porosity differences fo the DW/mud. IE, a PVA primer..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
You were being helpful till you said that a sealer IE is a PVA primer.So...are primers sealers? Are sealers primers? I'm seriously confused all of a sudden. I thought they were one in the same. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
This of the term vechicle.There are all kinds of vechicles (primers) that are specialized for specific functions. Some are more general purpose than others.One specicalized vechicle is a moped (PVA sealer). It is inexpensive and efficient for what it does. But it is limited in it's funcitonality.Other vechicles are more general purpose. For example an extended cab pickup. Such a primer would be Bulleye 1-2-3."So...are primers sealers? Are sealers primers?"Yes to both. But it all depends on the specifics. And in an article like this the terms aren't used very exactly. For example sanding sealer is a clear undercoat that is used with clear finishes. It is clearly a sealer, but not the type that he was talking aobut here.By sealer my guess is that he was talking about PVA. It is a type of primer, but it main funcition is limited sealing surface of DW and mud so that they absorb finsih coats equally..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Is the term "vechicle" one that is used in drywall finishing ?
The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,Moves on: nor all your Piety nor WitShall lure it back to cancel half a Line,Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it." - Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
I have used a variety of primers on drywall/compound. Some were meant specifically for that purpose and others were general purpose primers. Some were primer/sealers and others were just primers.
So far, I haven't found a difference in the final results. All of the primers prevented "flashing" (or white-banding/dark-banding as they called it in the article) so I don't get too uptight about using the so-called right primer for new drywall.
I've heard good things about Sheetrock First Coat, but if I can't tell the difference after the surface is finished, I don't see the motivation for using it. Maybe it's more economical for large jobs, but I tend to just do a few sheets of drywall at a time so I just use a general purpose 100% acrylic primer.
Big difference between an ordinary primer, even an PVA one, and Sheetrock First Coat. SFC has microscopic joint compound in it, thus when it's applied it's acts as a skim coat of joint compound over the drywall. Then when you paint, you are painting on one type of a surface.Primer to me is a material for better paint absorption while a sealer will seal the drywall or paint (sealing any oily spots, crayons, ink, etc.)
Edited 7/7/2008 3:10 pm ET by Zano
Could you give me a brand name of a primer? Can you give me a brand name of a sealer? I'm still not understanding the difference. Maybe I'm dense or maybe I have to go to a paint store and have them explain it and show me the difference. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
Jim,Primer: Any ordinary primer at HD or Lowes.Sealer: Kilz, Bulleye,.. these are a combination of primer and sealer.Sherwin Williams had a similar product to Sheetrock First Coat, I believe it's called Builder's Choice.When I drywall, I prime with 2 coats of Sheetrock First and touch up after the first coat of it, then apply the second coat and I swear to you..the drywall is 99.999999999999% perfect. Can't see the screws and seams thru the paint and the entire drywall/paint job is superb. For the past 8 years I only used Sheetrock First Coat on new drywall so am not familiar with other brands.
Thanks Zano. I'm going to try the sheetrock first stuff and do as you do. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
About 6 weeks ago I drywalled an addition. The master bedroom had all kinds of crazy angles. I primed it twice with Sheetrock First Coat and the HO painted it. I saw the job after he painted as I did the ceramic tile in the bathroom. I checked the drywall/paint in the morning, noon and late afternoon and could not find anything wrong..and then the HO told me he still has to put another coat of paint on it. The walls were darkish brown and the ceiling white.The article that I brought here truly pursues "perfect drywall". The SFC avoids problems with the drywall and paint. It avoids that unsightly seam when the sun is shining thru the window at a severe angle on the wall and when you use eggshell or any shiny paint..no problem at all...everyone is happy.
Does this Sheetrock First Coat replace a putty coat on a level 5 smooth wall? What type of finish/texture on the job you are referring to?Thanks, John
By "putty coat" I gather you mean a skim coat. Yes, it does replace a skim coat. I only do smooth walls, no texture, that's the way it is in New Jersey.
Zano,
Thanks for the article. It confirms much of what I've learned over the years.
I'm not aquainted with Sheetrock First Coat. Is it an adhesive type primer? Does it also show taping flaws well? Why did you have to prime the new work twice with it?
It hides taping flaws because it is thick. By priming twice with it, after the first prime, I can check it for pinholes and the general overall finishing job. This way I know that when I leave the job, there are no drywall flaws and after that there is no debate between the drywall and painting.By doing it twice, it's a "thicker skim coat" over the entire drywall.I don't know what you mean by "adhesive primer".
OK. That gives me a much better idea about what that product does. Sounds like it's worth the extra effort to get a good prime for semi-gloss.
I use the term adhesive primer to mean one of the primers made for new drywall which has a lot of adhesive in it. It bonds like crazy, feels almost like the roller sleeve will stick to the wall if you don't keep moving right along. When dry, the adhesive also pulls the top coat out of the sleeve making a one coat job possible when done carefully.
Behr makes a primer which works like that. It's specifically for new drywall.
Edited 7/8/2008 10:53 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
There are BONDING primers that are used for difficult surfaces such as slick or chaulky ones.Here is one line.http://www.ximbonder.com/products.asp?id=20But I don't think that DW requires any such thing. DW and mud does a very good job of absorbing paint. In fact too good. That is why a sealer is used.PVA primers are what is common used on fresh DW. PVA is bascially white glue. Thus it is sticky.But I don't think that the characteristic that is needed is adhesive, but rather sealing the surface so that you get uniform absorbance.BTW, Monney says that the "first coat" type of products are basically DW compound and a primer (I think a PVA primer). He said that he used to mix his own..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
BTW, Monney says that the "first coat" type of products are basically DW compound and a primer (I think a PVA primer). He said that he used to mix his own.
There's an interesting idea, one to put in the memory banks for future reference. Get the same result that we're talking about from using that skim coating type primer mentioned in the article, by mixing the left over drywall compound with water and a gallon of PVA (adhesive) primer. All in one swell foop.
But why do I get the idea that the roller would be sliding all over the wall? Hahaha.
I believe this discussion is creeping toward D-Mix...I have used the Sherwin Williams Prep Rite High Build primer/surfacer product. It works VERY WELL for what it was intended to do: Conceal minor surface imperfections and prepare for a good paint finish. I've never used the Sheetrock First Coat product, but I'd use this Sherwin Williams product again in a heartbeat.
I'm going to try one or the other of them, whatever is easier to find, the next time I have to paint new drywall, particularly with any level of gloss top coat.