The concrete guy is a little off on the height of the front and back stem wall of a daylight basement so 92 5/8″ studs are about 1″ too short on the back wall. No problem, just add an extra 1″ or so to the top plate, right?
The problem comes with the center (bearing) wall and the concrete slab that has about an 1″ to 1 1/2″ inch sag in the middle. (Those dang concrete guys…) Anyway, what is the best way to fix this? They could string the top of the wall and shim under each stud. They could leave the treated mud sill alone and cut a tapered top plate. Or they could rip the whole thing out and use longer studs cut to the varying lengths to make the top plate level. (I’m sure they would love to hear that.)
Also, I’m thinking about how this is going to come back and bite us later–like with the drywall. The 2 1/4″ base (standard on all our spec houses) won’t cover the gap at the bottom. Any and all suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
Replies
You don't even have a level deck on yet and you're talking about butchering some studs, screwing up the drywall and the trim to make a TOP PLATE level?
What do you really do for a living?
Sorry. The response should be: You are building a house over a basement, right? Wood framed deck on top of your stem walls, right? Wall framing above that in whatever plan configuration you have chosen, right? Etc.
Get your deck level first. Start with the mudsill, double it if you have to, shim and/or grout where you have to. Get the deck level first. Then all the rest will come off without a hitch.
Edited 6/30/2005 12:51 am ET by Ralph Wicklund
Maybe I need more explanation. The perimeter walls are not the problem. The support wall in the center of the daylight basement is. There is a dip in the concrete slab as it was not poured level. (The slab was poured prior to framing.) The studs are all the same length hence the top of this bearing wall has a dip in the middle of about 1 1/2". What is the best way to correct this so the TJIs will rest on it evenly?
The drywall question has to do with the basement walls. Given the mistake of about an inch on the perimeter stem walls, added to the dip in the floor, the wall height will be approximately 99 5/8" rather than the standard 97 1/8", therefore there will be a gap at the bottom of the drywall that the base will not cover. The drywallers will either have to use a 48" and a 54" piece ripped down, or add a couple inch ripper piece and tape another seam at the floor. I'm sure they will love that.
I am hoping that some of you wise men and women have other options I haven't considered. Thanks for taking the time to reply.
You could do away with the treated mudsill and gain back 1 1/2" lost through the dip in the floor. When you do this you substitute embedded truss anchors with a moisture barrier for the bolted on mudsill.
In your case, the standard unit would have to be a retrofit with a different product because you obviously can't embed in an already finished stem wall.
Any of the strap products that can be attached to the inside face or drilled and set with an expansion bolt or epoxy can be used to provide the hold down or lateral factor and a moisture barrier, such as vycor or grace I&W can be used between the wood and concrete. If your stem wall is way too rough on the top, a piece of flat steel stock can be used as a bearing surface. The goal is to protect the wood from contact with the concrete and to provide the proper tiedown to the foundation.
If the remaining inch of the dip in the center of the floor is still a concern then there are "self" leveling products that can be troweled on. If you do not want to use the leveling product as a bearing surface by itself, shim the bottom plate up solid first.
When the line for the sole plate on that bearing wall was chaulked, somebody could have noticed the gully in the concrete...but failing that lay another toplate on the wall. Hold a chalk line level at the two high points and snap along both sides of the extra plate. A good sawman with a good saw should be able to rip the double taper but you may need to shim the TJI's anyway, have him cut the line away if need be, shimmin' is easier and faster than shaving. Document your time, use photos if need be. Make sure that the first deck TJI's are on the money or you'll regret it later. I'm sure there are other ways but this allows you to procede with the build without buggering the schedule too badly. Check with Hector the Inspector to make sure he's cool with it (I've done it before, some had problems while others didn't)
You have a coupla choices with the trim; bigger base, add a crown. You have may be able to recoup costs from the concrete sub. What's the finish floor? If tile, then the tiler may want to float the floor which may add cost but eleviate the trim problem...
You may have more of a dip than most, but all basement slabs are somewhat out of level. Either add a second bottom plate and shim it level or toenail your studs in place, plumb them with a temporary brace, snap a level line at the top, cut the studs to the line, add your top plates. We use this second method often when we are framing walls directly on concrete.
this job need the concrete fix. it will be a problem all the way out. if you cannot skim it, jack hammer it.
How will it be a problem?
Any chance the concrete guys (who are at fault) can float a level skin over the whole top?
cheers
***I'm a contractor - but I'm trying to go straight!***
That would be possible. Would there be a problem with the skim coat adhering to the existing slab? I'm not sure, but I think it has a sealer on it.
I'd think about just buying a bigger base molding. To me that's easier than futzing with the extra rock joints.
Lightly scratch/scour/sand/?? the floor first, I doubt if the sealer has penetrated too far. Use a latex additive to the topcoat - or weldbond in the mix/painted on first.cheers
***I'm a contractor - but I'm trying to go straight!***
Wow! Sounds like some terrible concrete work. My vote would be to run a string line and measure each stud. I would also put a sheetrock ripping in the middle so yoy still only have one joint to mud. Of course it will be two joints a few inches apart. I hope your sheetrock finishers are better than your concrete finishers.
Mark
I've framed in an awful lot of basements and most of them were new construction.
That being said. I thinking I haven't ever seen one that didn't have variations up to 1/2". Sounds fairly normal to me. Sounds like yours is definately on the shoddy side of workmanship, but still, nothing totally crazy.
Personally, I'd just graduate the studs accordingly. If it's too late for that, then I'd shim under the bottom plate at each stud. Then resecure the bottom plate to the slab with tapcons.
It happens. If you want to feel better about your particular concrete issues, find my thread titled "Uh-oh" that I started on Tuesday night.
Thanks to all for the great input. Since the bottom plate was already shot to the slab, we are opting for the tapered top plate rather than shim up at each stud.
To address the extra 2-3 inches in wall height, the drywallers are going to have to rip down 54" drywall for the bottom piece. That seems to be a better option than a wider base throughout the entire house.
Thanks again for the help.
Steel shims under each stud, under the mudsill.
blue
My vote is to shim the bottom of the wall. Drywallers will see the problem when they first apply the second sheet and it does not line up at the end with the stud. They will lift the base sheet to match the top sheet joint. It is nice to keep the sheets off the floor anyways otherwise they will wick moisture. When house is completed you can and if you have extra money (that is rare) you can float a coat of new cement over the old, wire backed and nailed to the older concrete. If you choose not to hope you children do not play with marbles ---.
Sound like a good place for a drain in case the hot tube leaks--