I’ve built a small basement 26’x26′ on level ground and now I have about 200+ cu/yrds of earth to redistribute around the foundation. The fellow that dug the basement used a backhoe and it took 3-4 days to dig out. So now it’s time to spread out the earth that came out of the hole and I’m wondering what the neatest/most cost effective approach might be.
I’d like to remove the topsoil in the areas this dirt is going to go then place the dirt and spread the topsoil back over. The dirt from the basement excavation is seperated in piles but I want to be sure I have plenty of topsoil to cover everything. To me that seems like a job for a dozer. Around here (central wv) a dozer usually runs $50-60 an hour for a mid-sized dozer/operator. The guy with the backhoe (an older case model with a front loader, probably a yrd-yrd and 1/2 sized bucket) charges $35 an hour. I have a pretty good idea how long the backhoe would take: 2 1/2 days+. But how long should a dozer take?
I think the dozer would do a smoother job so I’m sort of leaning that way. One guy says it would take a day another says two – the first guy seemed more professional and has a good reputation but I got the impression even he was padding his estimate a little.. Estimates range from $600-1000.
The other option is to rent a bobcat and do it myself (nope, I’ve never run one but I have some apptitude for that sort of thing – plus it would be fun!). Would a bobcat be capable of removing the sod and topsoil effectivly or are they limitted to moving and spreading? How long should I expect to take?
Any opinions?
Thanks!
Replies
A good dozer operator would be money well spent. The bobcat rental would cost as much and it won't fine grade as well and take more time.
I remember seeing a few years ago a "dirt exchange" web site, for buying and selling fill dirt. You could advertise 200 yards of whatever it is located wherever, and see if you could get something for it, or at least get rid of it for free.
Here's one in the San Francisco area, http://bayareadirt.com/, you might spend some time on Google to find a local one.
-- J.S.
As someone else said, I'd go with the dozer. They can do a heck of a lot more digging/pushing than a skid steer.
a dozer here rents for $500 a day without operator. remember it takes a low boy to haul a dozer and somebody got to pay for that too. Hire it out be done in two days . forget about it. you cannot get it cheaper
Napalm
We always get it right!!!
the third time....
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
plan "B"
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Dozer. Then find someone with a 9N Ford with a box blade to finish it off.
From a gut who does this sort of work, hire the dozer.
A competant operator on a D3 can push 40 yards of dirt in one hour. Distance traveled will change this figure somewhat, but the 40 yards per hour is a good rule of thumb.
I'd say if a person can get his equipment to your jobsite early in the morning, he can be done in a day.
resist the urge to rent the bobcat at all cost! it is undersized for that much material and can't get the smooth finish you want.
i vote dozer
Thanks everyone for your input!
A dozer it will be - that is unless I can get 200 people to show up with shovels and wheelbarrows (free beer provided of course) ;-)
Thanks!
H
(free beer provided of course)
With this crowd, the dozer would be cheaper than the beer ;)
jt8
It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. --Chinese proverb
> unless I can get 200 people to show up with shovels and wheelbarrows
Given that the material is fairly loose from having been recently dug out of the basement, it actually wouldn't be all that hard to move by hand. A few years back, I moved about 40 yards in four weekends, not even trying to work hard or go fast. IIRC, it took me under ten minutes per wheelbarrow load. We'd have ten yards dumped in the driveway on Friday, and I'd wheelbarrow it about 150 ft. and dump it over the weekend. It works out to about 7 wheelbarrow loads per yard. You could do your 200 yards over 20 weekends or maybe a lot less -- if you really want the exercise.
-- J.S.
7wb/yd X 200 yds X 10 min = 14000 min =233hours+20min
233.33 hr x 15$ (laborer rate) =3500$
233.33hr x 50$ (What any sane persons free time is worth minimum) = 11,666.66$!!!
hire a dozer
We always get it right!!!
the third time....
<!----><!---->
"Almost certain death, small chance of success.... What are we waiting for???"
14000 min =233hours+20min
14000/20 = 700 minutes or 11:40 hh:mm * 3 beers per hour (or about .6 BAC) is 35 beers * 20 hands is 700 beers (call it thirty cases). Case price (local) is 67¢@, for $469 just for beer . . .
More proof positive people will sell their free time cheap for beer.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
No wonder those quotes you been doing haven't been getting a response!
You've counted the labor impact twice!
Here in WV everybody has a backhoe behind the house...its just that only 20% of them ever run.Its like surfboard rack s in Calif. If he doesnt have to move the dirt far the dozer is the way to go, if you have to cart it all around the house a track loader would be better.You may not need it with a good dozer operator(not lever jerker) but i like the tractor and box blade ... it does a nice job.
If you have other ground work to be done which would benefit from a dozer, you might consider purchasing a good used one & then re-sell once work completed. If all you do is break-even on the price, you will have saved a few bucks!
For small jobs, look toward the forestry dept auctions for one used to clear fire paths or just someone who has purchased & no longer needs. Perhaps may be previously leased equipment with few hours on it.
Ex: Paid someone $3500 for pond excavation; bought old medium dozer for $6500, dug a larger pond then sold the dozer for $6500. Of course, there were some small maintenance items, but nothing like $3500! Now have one of those forestry machines & hope it never dies as was like new!
The downside of buying something used is potential problems that your inexperienced eye would miss upon initial inspection.
For instance, I bought this old used backhoe off one of my clients that was retiring from the excavation business. Silly me failed to recognize the reason he tied up the hoe prior to transport. One, the hydralics leaked something fierce and needed a rebuild of the control box. Two, the main pivot bearing for the hoe had worn through it's brass liner into the casting. Not to mention the new tires, seat, alternator, etc. I never bothered to even try to repair the transmission where it kept popping out of third gear. The clutch was a POS, too. Had the damn thing at my buddies machine shop for a year and half trying to get it operational.
Finally got it functional and did a few of my projects before letting it go for 5K less than I paid (not counting repairs).
Hire it out!
I agree.
The last thing you need to do is jump on a machine you know nothing about and let a clutch slip and throw you into the side of your house.
Let the insured and experienced guys do the work.----------------------------------------
Let me drop everything I'm doing so I can work on your problem!
Agree to your post. As always the buyer needs to be aware of the downfalls with used equipment. Always insist upon trying out the equipment prior to purchase when buying from an individual; auctions surely are "buyer beware".
Obviously what has worked for us may not prove to be of value to others.
Obviously what has worked for us may not prove to be of value to others.
Of course. I'm a tractor buyer also. My first track loader was a result of a bad driveway that none of the professional road builders could figure out how to fix, coupled with a truck I was having trouble selling. Traded it for the loader.
That loader, a wannabe, is long gone and I have a pair of Cats, track and rubber. The track is the one that saved me from divorce over the driveway. After a few jobs with it, I could drive it into the woods and leave it. Owes me nothing, but's still running strong.
Last weekend it also provided great entertainment for a city-slicker house guest. We started with him driving the compact tractor so I could grade the driveway with my pull-behind road grader. Then he graduated to uprooting 30' trees with the track loader. The look on his face was priceless when he first got in and realized there was no steering wheel. This is an old machine with lots of hand levers.
I also bought a well rig when I didn't like what the local drillers were telling me. Cost what one well would have, and it's not through working. Just gotta have the right attitude if you choose to buy rather than hire. A decent-sized initial job helps too.
Here's a pic of my wife checking my driveway progress:PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Being a tractor buyer truly does have benefits. You know better than many what to look for in used equipment. Key message in your post is one must have the right attitude if choosing to buy rather than hire...plus...having a decent sized initial job helps too!
Necessary is the aptitude to maintain, etc.; fortunately, no problem here.
From the looks of your driveway, your job is definitely decent sized. Do hope you will share the pics once completed. Little doubt, your track may not be parked in the woods long as now your wife having now seen its value, she may find other uses for it. Do hope you will find the time to follow thru.
There truly is great value in buying used, doing work yourself & knowing the eqp pretty well holds it value considering maintenance & good working order when you deciding to sell.
There truly is great value in buying used, doing work yourself & knowing the eqp pretty well holds it value considering maintenance & good working order when you deciding to sell.
There is no reason to lose money on used machinery. Mine are worth at least what I paid for them, including the compact tractor and hoe. Track machines are a little more complicated in that the undercarriage is the major old-age expense, often to the point of retiring the machine. I knew nothing about tractors when I bought my first one. What I did know was where to go for advice.
The transmission on my track loader died on a job. Looked like a nasty repair so I took it to a shop. $5k later I got 18 hrs before it froze up. Long story short, I ended up doing the second rebuild. Found 2 bolts and 4 roller bearings in there from the first repair. One of them took out three teeth on my custom made reverser gear, requiring a second gear. Cat no longer supplies that gear, but it would have been $1k just for one. With older machinery you need to be willing to get greasy occasionally and, ideally, be friends with a good machinist. I am.
But even with my transmission losses from a negligent repair, the undercarriage would still be the larger cost. One that would encourage me to sell the tractor before it got so bad as to require immediate help. That was a major thought in my decision to buy a substantially larger rubber tire loader (23k lbs.) with an 8' bucket. These old industrial loaders are incredibly inexpensive. My 944 in the pic was $6k, needed very little to be fully operational (I want a canopy for widowmakers). Got it from a guy who used it almost daily in a small gravel pit.
Driveway was completed 4 yrs ago, and nobody got hurt. That's not really the best place to learn operation, particularly on that slope, but that was the job that desperately needed doing. I'll take another pic. At present it could use some stone. Had a Porshe 911 visit not long ago. Must not be too bad.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Where are you in Va? I have a small parcel near west point, need to put in a road, clear site, etc.
Your fleet could get some exercise.
Thanks. Kind of a long haul from Charlottesville. I did have one guy convince me to go 3 counties north of here, but only after a driveway survey convinced him that it couldn't go where he thought. Steep hill involved. Turned out well.
I agreed to 2 small dirt projects today for a GC friend. And I still have to finish a driveway I started for a guy I sold land to, similar to our 1/2 mile drive which rises 400'. Somehow, you get machinery, learn what to do with it, and you get popular. I guess that's the "economics of earth moving", eh?
Around here I've become a go-to guy for difficult driveways, due to my experience with my own. West Point should be pretty flat. I'll send you the number of a guy near there who has machinery. He isn't in the business (neither am I) but I'm pretty sure he knows how to operate.
After a nightmare 30% slope driveway, Sadie, here's what my new driveway looks like (14%) standing just about the same place as the other pic:PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Just beautiful driveway & amazing what one man & a machine can do!
Love those VA ridges, a beauty of their own!
Thank you. Our house guests couldn't really get the concept that there was nothing but forest here when we started. Then I hired a professional road builder and lost almost $20k on a too steep driveway. That's real economics. DW used to make a pit stop at the closest restroom before coming home. Whenever it even rained, I had to get the tractor out to pull her up, so she never could be sure just when she'd get to the house. Hiking doesn't work for her.
After every road builder I could get to come out left, scratching their heads, I started measuring slopes. The areas that worked pretty well were all under 15%. We had 3 stretches of 30%. Nightmare is not hyperbole.
Took 2 tries before I figured out a new route that allowed 14% maximum. Almost killed the little JD crawler I started with. Going to a substantially larger Cat solved that. Now we have a drive that works with any vehicle and requires considerably less maintenance than what the professional left me. Ended up with a small sideline, driveway surveys. I've done a few around here. Sometimes I do the actual work, sometimes others. But they all end up good roads.
Oh, and it took second machine, my duece-and-a-half. The winch actually. Twice the fill on the outside slipped down the hill, leaving me sitting at such an angle I couldn't back up onto the road. Fortunately the winch, with 200' of cable, was strong enough to pull the Cat's azz sideways and up. Had to nose the truck into a good-sized tree to keep it stationary. Pretty exciting when the fill under one track heads down the mountain carrying you with it. Not for the faint of heart.
Here's our muffler garden out front. Courtesy of the original driveway.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
That email didn't go through. If you're interested in that phone number shoot me an address that works.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!