ELEC – ringing out a house – tips??
ELEC – ringing out a house – tips??
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My Habitat assignment next week is checking out all the circuits in these four town homes to make sure that we don’t have any issues with what goes where – before the drywall goes up.
How do you do it?
It has been years since I had the change to ring out a house with doorbell and test leads, so I hope you guys have a lot of tips and a 1,2,3 procedure that can be taught to our day campers, who know less than I do on this topic.
Our traditional method is to barge onward, wall up a few outlets, then hunt them down. The super wants to have all his electrical device locations marked on the floor for a cross check. That’s no fun.
The ToolBear
“You can’t save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice.” Dogbert
Replies
Yeah, the first thing is to just mark the outlets on the floor. For switches & smoke detector boxes or any outlet not at standard height, write down the elevation as well. Use a plumb bob to mark ceiling boxes. Have someone double-check your work to make sure none were missed.
Yeah, the first thing is to just mark the outlets on the floor. For switches & smoke detector boxes or any outlet not at standard height, write down the elevation as well. Use a plumb bob to mark ceiling boxes. Have someone double-check your work to make sure none were missed.@@@But if we mark them, the DWers find them, cut them out and there goes the outlet hunt <g>. Amazing how often this basic step is overlooked. I will mention heights to the super.The PLS 5 works wonders on witnessing overhead devices. Had a bunch of cans to set last year. Did the layout on the floor, all centered, etc., then put the PLS5 on each mark and centered the can above. Now, best ways to ring them out?? There is usually some circuit done sideways. One job the hall light turned on the bathroom fan.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
What's the big deal? That lets you snuff some others turd bomb stink outta the bathroom before yah go in :o)
Is the distribution panel made up?
Is the distribution panel made up?
@@@As of last Sat. the hots were all in a bundle.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
I don't do residential electric work. Strictly commercial, but I have seen residential panels with the neutrals and grounds all landed on the buss(es) and the hots just loosely bundled in the panel. That would be a heck of a mess to ring out if a few of the neutrals got inappropriately tied together in a box somewhere.
Since virtually everything we to is conduit, mc cable, or armor cable we take the time to label everything. We use wire numbers everywhere. Both in the panel and in any j-box or device box. It makes keeping things sorted out a whole lot easier, especially with three phase.
renosteinke covered things much better than I could. I just like to see neutrals as well as hots labeled in any panel. It makes trouble shooting in the future so much easier.
I just like to see neutrals as well as hots labeled in any panel. It makes trouble shooting in the future so much easier.@@@That would be helpful. If they did it like I do, there is a slug on each circuit where it enters the box. Now, try to read the abbreviations <g>.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
That is why I use wire numbers. A small book cost about $4 and I peel off the numbers and wrap them around the wires. Numbers match the breaker number in the panel. Label the other end of the wires where they get made up in switch, lighting and receptical boxes. Since I deal with multiple distribution panels the backs of recpt. covers and front of j-boxex get panel and circuit identifiers also. When I open up a box I know what panel and circuit it is fed from. The wire numbers make truble shooting, adding to, or load checking so much easier.
at home I make up an anotated legend to replace the legend on the distribution panel.
That is why I use wire numbers. A small book cost about $4 and I peel off the numbers and wrap them around the wires. @@@Would be cleaner. Have a set of numbers somewhere. But, this is not my job. Did not wire it, etc., so I don't get to decide the style.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
Put some lipstick on that pig!!
The only function of economic forecasting is to make astrology look respectable. --John Kenneth Galbraith
Then toolbear will fall in love with it.
I suppose it comes down to the 5 (or 6, or 7 ...) P's ... Prior Preparation Prevents Poor Performance. Or, you can choose to spend 5 minutes now, or an hour later.
Rule #1 is to leave as little as you can for the rockers to harm. If the wires are to be run in pipe, pull them in after the rock is up. Whatever the method, you don't connect the wires together until after the rock is up. Fold them up, push them back, and pray they aren't murdered by the rotozip.
Nothing ... and I mean NOTHING ... gets connected in the panel unless EVERY device on that circuit is connected and installed.
Identification is a really big deal. Often skimped on, it makes all the difference when there's a problem.
Boxes are indicated with marks on the floor. Wires are identified with bits of tape, or cable sheath, where you've written the information. It doesn't hurt to make a sketch of the circuits on a floor plan either.
Probably the most confusing boxes are on the ceiling; it can be hard to tell if a smoke alarm or light is supposed to go in that box.
To "ring out" a circuit often means connecting two wires in a cable together ... then seeing what other cable is showing continuity between the two. Remove the wire nut, and check again to be sure. There are fancier ways, but that one will still work.
As you identify switches and circuits, mark them with a piece of masking tape. Leave this tape up until the job is complete. Ditto for when you're checking to see if everything works; green tape for OK, red tape for there's a problem, blue for notes. Often the tape markings will let you spot a pattern easily.
Edited 11/17/2008 7:36 pm ET by renosteinke
I know the 6 Ps. I wonder what #7 is.@@@They have been good about IDing the circuits with slugs and probably will mark the floor for all the devices in walls, ceiling.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
When we test our habitat house, we have the panel all made up and usually it is hot. We turn on one circuit at a time and check the outlets that are suppose to be hot. If all checks out, we drywall. Mistakes can still be made, but thats the way it goes.
I would urge you to make up the service panel.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
When we test our habitat house, we have the panel all made up and usually it is hot. We turn on one circuit at a time and check the outlets that are suppose to be hot. If all checks out, we drywall. Mistakes can still be made, but thats the way it goes.I would urge you to make up the service panel.@@@@That is one job someone else has. I will suggest to the super that we can temp power to the panel if they make it up.The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert
That strikes me as a very poor practice, for three reasons.
First, to do that, the devices (switches, receptacles, fiztures) need to be in place. With the little 'plaster ears" on the devices, you either need to remove the devices before rocking ... or make your holes too big.
Second, there is always the possibility of combining a steel tool, wet mud, and a hot wire ... a bad mix.
Third, the devices are just begging to be painted, or damaged, during the rest of the job.
I will admit to having put in (essentially disposable) "keyless" kight fixtures to facilitate the work if the drywall and painting crews. That's also the time I put in a GFI breaker - if only temporarily.
That's why I don't make up the panel until last. Oh, I will generally have a couple receptacles 'hot,' for the use of the crews, and maybe a few lights ... but that's it. Other circuits are not landed on the breakers. That's just the main panel, though ... the other panels remain dead, wires only, breakers and covers safe in my truck. I cover the panels with cardboard, until the paint is dry.
Safety is one reason for this. I've also had both covers and breakers disappear in the course of a job.
I agree with you.
actually I have never heard oof this "ringing out" on a residential job
On the only residential jobs i have done in the past 16 years I had to get the inspector's approval for even one or two reccptcles to be made hot. I could only istall the breaker(s) for that cicuit and had to cover the box as you did.
Here was my last day of playing ele.
I thought you might like to see it.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=112731.1Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Just looking at that makes my arms and hands sore. I hope you had a tugger or something to pull that.
I had to pull out some 650 cml last year about this time. Only about 40' of abandoned underground conduit. Ended up using a backhoe and even then had to leave about 8' cut off and left in one of the pipes. It took two of us to load it on the truck and then unload it in the scrape wire dumpster. I bet if we had left it on the ground over night one or two of the street people in downtown Louisville could would packed it off for us :->
3 of us in the basement with the 12 spools ( at 400lbs ea) and 2 guys at the transformer end, one on a ditchwitch with the rope, one with the pulley hooked to a bobcat bucket over the conduit stubs. Guy at the trans. hollered "stop" and "go" as we fed as fast as we could. We found out reel fast, "whoa" and "Go" don't mix well..LOL
4 pulls of 3, 160'..took us about 3 hours. Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
You have already gotten some good advice and suggestions. A couple more......
1) Make your marks on the floor with Marks A Lot or other indelible marker, then spray your marks with spray lacquer so they will survive the schmutz generated by HfH drywall and finishing crews.
2) RotoZip vs wire - as you know the Roto always wins. However this battle is simply and reliably avoided by a) tucking the wires back in the box at least 1-1/4" and b) using the depth guide on the Rotozip - max depth setting of bit past guide = 1" - therefore it becomes impossible for the bit to hit any wire.
I was a HfH crew leader for years and the electricians would always P&M if any wiring got nicked yet refuse to consistently tuck them back. I would check and tuck back wires routinely - and leave a note in boxes where I had done so which the electrical crew would find at trim out. The note said if not for the conscientious DW crew leader they would be trying to connect a 2" wire at this location and reminded them to tuck back at least 1-1/4".
Took a while but they eventually got trained. To work HfH has to be a co-operative venture ya know!
Jim
1) Make your marks on the floor with Marks A Lot or other indelible marker, then spray your marks with spray lacquer so they will survive the schmutz generated by HfH drywall and finishing crews.@@@ We have been using spray paint. Nothing much survives the DWers.2) RotoZip vs wire - as you know the Roto always wins. @@@ One guy did cusinart a wall of wire.However this battle is simply and reliably avoided by a) tucking the wires back in the box at least 1-1/4" and b) using the depth guide on the Rotozip - max depth setting of bit past guide = 1" - therefore it becomes impossible for the bit to hit any wire.@@@ Helps if they use 22.5ci boxes. I see 18" ci handiboxes on this job. Back to their old ways. The note said if not for the conscientious DW crew leader they would be trying to connect a 2" wire at this location and reminded them to tuck back at least 1-1/4".@@@ May not be code, but I have had to use butt connectors from time to time. 2" is a lot.
The ToolBear
"You can't save the Earth unless you are willing to make other people sacrifice." Dogbert