This is my first post, so be kind.
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I have a rental house in the Pacific NW that was built in 1977. The house was a private residence, but in the past 3 years it has been a rental. The house has copper wiring and standard 15Amp grounded outlets that are back wired.
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We recently had a tenant vacate the house. During the turnover I found a few electrical outlets that would not hold a typical plug in the socket and I replaced the outlets. I thought nothing of it and accounted it as some general maintenance issue.
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With the new tenant several other outlets have been discovered that will not retain the plugs. All of these outlets are low on the wall an in some normal traffic areas of the house. The former tenants had small children and I am sure had installed some type of child protective devices. I am not sure what they used since they took them with them when they vacated.
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Are there some child proof devices that are known to damage the outlets and create a retention problem?
I have never seen so many outlets that have failed like this at one time. Do you have any advice?
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Jeff
Replies
Replace then with 20 amp rated outlets costing more than 49 cents. Good outlets will provide a long safe life. They will could around $2 ea. Most 'el cheapo' 15 amp outlets installed these days are made to last only days. I've never understood how they earn a UL label.
The spec grade and commercial grade 15 amp receptacles are just as good as their 20 amp versions. The main difference is the extra slot in the faceplate.Now the residential grade receptacles are only available in 15 amp versions.
Please use a 15amp plug on a 15amp circuit. But buy a good quality plug.
You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.
Marv
Please use a 15amp plug on a 15amp circuit. But buy a good quality plug.
Overload protection is provided by the fuse/breaker. I find 20 amp outlets to be much better constructed and like using 12 ga wire on a 15 amp circut instead of the 14 ga as code minimum states. Using an upgraded outlet does not allow more current in the line, just provides beter contact and IMHO, safer operation, not to mention longer life
a 20 amp plug (t-slot) on a 15 amp circuit would not pass here, it encourages people to plug 20 amp devices into them, damage the device, wire, breaker etc ...
encourages people to plug 20 amp devices into them, damage the device, wire, breaker etc ...
Wane,
When have you ever seen a 20amp 110 device??? Very, very far, and few in between. Actually never seen one in my life. Anything that needs that many watts is 240V nowadays.
WSJ
> a 20 amp plug (t-slot) on a 15 amp circuit would not pass here, it encourages people to plug 20 amp devices into them, damage the device, wire, breaker etc ...
As long as the breaker says "15" on it, nothing will be damaged. It's perfectly OK to use better receptacles.
-- J.S.
Pete,
Somehow I doubt this rental unit has 12 ga wire runs for the 15A circuits, think about it; the outlet connections are back-stabbed, would that same electrician also run "oversized" conductors? I don't think so, I suspect 14 ga wire on 15A lines.
While you are certainly correct that the overload protection is provided by the breaker or fuse, a 20A duplex receptacle's configuration misleads the user as to the capacity of the circuit, by allowing a 20A plug to be connected.
I'm not sure it would be legal to do this here in DE.
It would be legal to downrate the 12 ga with a 15A breaker and install 15A configuration duplexes, but I don't think my inspector would approve of a 15A breaker, 14 ga wire, and a 20A duplex.
I do agree that 20A duplexes as a general rule are more durable.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
will the avg person know the difference btn a 15 and a 20 duplex?
bobl Volo, non valeo
Baloney detecter
will the avg person know the difference btn a 15 and a 20 duplex?
I was just thinking, will the floor sander, or the carpet cleaner, or some other service person who might just have some 20amp appliances not be misled? But then again, they're likely to be used to breakers tripping, if they are like most of the folk working in "investment property" I know . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The average person probably will not know the difference until they (rarely) have some sort of electrical appliance/tool/whatever in their hand with a wierd shaped plug (20A) in their hand.
Then they may figure out that the wierd plug will fit in these funny outlets with the T shaped slot.
BTW, my newer version of NEC is in the truck and it is cold and snowing outside, however, the 1993 NEC which is on my shelf (warm, dry) is rather explicit on the topic of receptacle ratings vs circuit ratings when connected to a branch circuit supplying 2 or more receptacles or outlets.
Table 210-21 (b)(3), page 70-42, shows for a circuit rating of 15A, receptacle rating is "Not over 15"; for a 20A circuit, receptacle rating is 15 or 20; 30 amp circuit, 30 amp receptacle, .........
Someone may want to check 2005 NEC, but I suspect it has not changed. Like I said in my original post, I don't think my inspector would like 20A duplexes on a 15A line.
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
"Please use a 15amp plug on a 15amp circuit. But buy a good quality plug."Actuall the code allows you to use a 15 amp PLUG and 20 amp circuit.The 20 amp circuit can have either 15 amp RECEPTACLES (if there are at least 2) or 20 amp RECEPTACLES.That the 20 amp RECEPTACLES are made to accept either 15 or 20 amp PLUGS.
By 'backwired' in 1977 I assume you mean 'backstabbed' by stabbing the wire into the small hole in the back.
In the presentday manufactured outlets of 'backwiring', a secure method of using the screws to force a clamp down on the wire is produced, much different than the backstabbing process of those times.
I would recommend replacing all of the outlets in the building as safety issues from the possibility of fire have been reported with those old backstab units.
At small cost and labor for peace of mind, especially in a rental.
Cheers and Welcome to Breaktime.
'Nemo me impune lacesset'
No one will provoke me with impunity
This is normal. Plugs, like everything else, don't last forever. A good practice is to get a simple plug-in circuit checker, about $10, and to test all the receptacles in the rental unit between tenants.
A good receptacle will light the right combination of lights and firmly grip the plug. Sometimes it is better to use a two-prong plug to test as the ground contacts are often the last to go. A two-wire plug and cord should be held tight to the receptacle once inserted and should not sag, slip out or require any wiggling to make good contact. A sagging cord, unless it was caused by the plug being forced partially out of the receptacle, is pretty much a sure sign of a weak receptacle.
While your at it look for cracked or missing receptacle, switch or junction box covers. Also check switches for consistent function. A switch which has to be wiggled, have more than slight arcing or feel warm to touch need to be replaced.
Replace receptacles on a 15A circuit only with 15A receptacles. The 15A receptacles are easy to identify as they have the more commonly seen two vertacle slots along with the roundish 'mouth', ground connection.
A 15/20A receptacle has a 'T' shaped hole. It is Code to be able to plug a 15A or 20A rated plug, load, into a 20A circuit. It is not Code to install a 20A receptacle, one with a 'T' shaped hole onto a 15A circuit. If the CB was to fail 20A load could cause the wiring to overheat if it was plugged into a 15A circuit.
Generally the $.64 receptacles are what most homes were built with. This is likely the sort which has given you 28 years of service. IMHO anything but the obviously deficient, no name and/or without UL listing, receptacles are likely to give you good service in most locations. Generally the overall quality of devices has improved over the years and even the cheapest available at any major supplier and having a recognizable brand and UL listing will likely give you good service in the majority of locations.
There are locations where commercial or even industrial duty may be a grand idea. Locations where appliances or tools will be constantly plugged and unplugged, especially if it is done under load, can benefit from the extra wipers, contact area and corrosion resistance of more expensive units. In a residential setting kitchens, baths, workshops, utility rooms and exterior receptacles may benefit from these.
You can easily spend anything from $.50 to almost $20 for a single receptacle and in the real world, as opposed to the world of ego-stroking bragging rights and imaginary 'quality', the actual performance in anything but extreme conditions may differ very little. If it makes you feel better or you have special ego needs to spend more go for it.
When you install your new receptacles go ahead and strip the wires back as needed, form a loop, install it around the screws in a clockwise manner and tighten firmly. The copper should wrap the screw shaft about 2/3 to 3/4 the circle and be very slightly compressed. Copper should not be exposed behind the back of the receptacle. Don't use the 'push-in' holes unless they use a screw type-clamping device. A mechanism usually only seen on higher end units.
"Generally the $.64 receptacles are what most homes were built with."Either you have been robbed or you have a BIG markup to your customers.Lowes has them for 0.46 each or 10@$3.70.
Re: "Lowes has them for 0.46 each or 10@$3.70."Shhhhh.Word gets around and everyone is going to want them at that cost. And mama needs a new liver.