I am a DIY with little electrical know-how. For some reason my mater bedroom overhead light stopped working. I installed a new switch and still no current to the light itself. All breakers are on – in fact this light is part of several upstairs lights and outlets. All are working fine. I checked the wires on the ceiling with a volt meter – zero. Is this a need for a professional? Is there anything else I should check first?
Thanks, Mike C.
Replies
was it working before you replaced the switch?
If yes, the connections at the switch is a good place to start looking.
If no, do you have volts coming into the switch?
118943.1 Too all who helped - thanks. I was the DIY who had a MBR ceiling light out. You responses allowed me to fix the problem with little effort. And from the responses I learned a little more about simple wiring issues in a house. If you want to know the solution read on if not - well thanks again.I removed the receptacle and noted the 'tabs' on each side had been snipped. I put in a new one with the tabs intact and everything is fine. I obviously had cut the source for power off when I cut the tabs. So, the reasonable question might be, why cut the tab in the first place. To save my life!Years ago when I was younger - less knowledgable - and with young children - I stayed up late on Christmas Eve to finish a paint job in the kitchen. Guests were to arrive early the next day. My then wife wanted everything perfect. When I was done painting I replaced every receptacle - make things look clean and neat. Each had two black and two white wires. Before this project I flipped the breakerS - caps are on purpose - for the kitchen. All was good. Beer in hand. Went down to reset the TWO breakers. When I reset one the other would flip. Remember I was stupider at the time. The only way I could get both to 'hold' was to set them carefully at the exact time. Now I felt good. Job done. Time for another beer. It was @ 3:00 am. I went to the kitchen to vacuum the small mess I had made. Remember all had to be perfect.I plugged in the vacuum cleaner and turned the switch on. I cannot describe with words what happened next. The vacuum cleaner ran really fast - and smelled like fire. The receptacle blew out of the wall and a very beautiful - golf ball sized - glowing blue ball rolled across the floor. It hit the opposite wall and with a huge bang smoked my new paint job. Lots of really black soot. The hole where the receptacle once was was huge.You guys know what I had done. Two lines to each duplex controlled by two seperate breakers. So after that I must have cut all tabs in fear of my life.Problem solved and I am still alive.Thanks again - Mike
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Actually what you had was 240V feeding that outlet. I'm not sure exactly how you managed that (there are several ways it could occur), but either you were making some significant mistakes or the wiring in the house was already a bit mucked up.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
I'd suggest checking for power at the breaker first. (Breakers can and do go bad) Work your way out from there to the next junction, open up the box, and see if you still have a good connection there.
By working step by step out to the switch you should be able to track it down.
A: They all have telephones.
Does the power feed through the switch or through the fixture box? Have you checked the incoming power vs the power at the socket?
It's possible that some jackleg before you put the light downstream of a GFCI outlet (say, in the bathroom), and that's tripped.
The obvious...
Is the light bulb new?
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
check your neutrals
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Thanks for all responses. The light fixture on the ceiling is down - paint job - and there is no power to the wires out of the ceiling when switch on. The breaker is good - other duplexes and ceiling lights covered by that breaker are operational. I did check all GFI's and all are on. I tested each with a GFI 'tester' - tripped each and reset. Still no power. The feed from the switch to the ceiling fixture goes through the attic. The light worked until @ 2 months ago - quit on its own volition.Mike
It is not clear where the power enters. If it comes into the switch then you will have 2 (or more cables) one with the incoming power and one to the light fixture. There might also be other cables to continue power into the other other devices downstream.And only one cable in the ceiling box (unless there are multiple lights off the same switch).If power comes into the ceiling box then you have one cable with power and one to the switch. And possibly a 3rd to continue power downstream.Have you identified the incoming power cable and that it does not have power?Most likely the problem is feed from the last box. Most likely a receptacle. If power comes into switch check receptacles on that wall including the other side of the wall.If power comes into the ceiling box you need to check all of the receptacles in the room. And it might come from a light in another room.To make a way too long story short I had a call for the lights & receptacle in a master bathroom. Got there and not only bathroom, but also 2 receptacles in the MBR and can lights over the bed. The main ceiling light worked and both where controlled by a switches the same 2 gang box.The house was 40 YO and appeared to be very well built and not much remodeling and none in this area. So it was apparently wired this way in the first place. Now days code would not allow receptacles in the bath be shared with the bedroom or other places.Otherwise it was OK, but the way that power was run, while meeting code, was very, very strange. It split and went in 2 directions several times.Spent 6 hours finding the problem.Turns out that it was in a working receptacle behind a dresser. It used Back Stab connections. That is the wires just pushed into hole in the back and springs held them in place. The out going neutral was making a bad connection.There is a good chance that you have a similar problem.In most cases a small flat blade screw drive will release them. And use the screw terminals. Some of the receptacles don't have terminal so you will need new ones..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I once ran into a situation where the wire had been pushed into the release slot instead of the back-stab hole. Worked for several years and then failed. Place appeared to have been wired by a regular electrician (or what passes for one in Fargo).
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Bill: I will check the receptacles in the bedroom and there is one in the hallway behind the switch but of course closer to the floor. I put all receptacles in - and I used the 'easy' snap duplexes. I will instead use the screws in the side and see if that cures the problem. I was trying to remember when the MBR ceiling light ceased to work. My kids say years. It has been several years since I replaced the receptacle on the opposite wall as the switch. I replaced it because it stop working. Bet I did something there to stop the flow of electrons - wanna bet?Mike
The better receptacles are the "back wired" variety where you push the wire end into a hole and then use the screw to tighten a clamp on the wire. These are even more reliable than the regular screw connection, since there's no chance of the wire slipping out from under the screw head, and there's less chance of shorting. They're also a lot easier to use (though more expensive, of course).The big boxes and many hardware stores have them, but you have to wander away from the 39-cent units to find them.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
"The better receptacles are the "back wired" variety where you push the wire end into a hole and then use the screw to tighten a clamp on the wire."
I've always wondered why they don't make switches with this connection method.
I'd buy 'em if I could!
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
They do make switches like that, but they're much harder to find.I wish the code guys would just outlaw anything else, so that the backwired would be all you could buy. Would drive up the cost of a house maybe $100 on the hardware side but would easily save twice that on sparky time, and would be safer for weekend warriors.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
"they're much harder to find"
Yeah, like impossible. And I've looked. A lot. If I ever find any, I'm gonna buy a pile of 'em.
These things are a better way to do things by several orders of magnitude. And I'm sure there are electricians out ther who'll use a backstab without even a second thought. Those backstab devices should be simply outlawed.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
It would be nice if all devices were Spec grade. I hate stab-ins, totally unreliable.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
Lowes has them.
"Lowes has them."
Hmm. I've looked at every switch in their bins. Three times. No luck.
I'll give it another try.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Apparently back-wired switches exist, but only in commercial or industrial grades.http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmDspRte.jsp?sitex=10026:22372:US&item=158540http://www.cooperwiringdevices.com/productCatalog/pdf/E%209-10.pdfBruceT
Cool! And in various colors too. I'm on a mission now.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Yeah, the color option can be used to nice effect.I wired my 120V shop receptacles as GFCI protected runs. I got 4 different colors of receptacles (Black, brown, white and cream) and color-coded each run. Matched the receptacle color with plates, as well. Kind of cool to do when it doesn't add anything to the cost.Now when I trip a GFCI, I just check the color of the protected receptacle and find the matched GFCI at the head of the run. I suppose you could do the same in a house.Between the back wire + securing screw receptacles and the adjustable depth boxes, I was pleasantly surprised at Lowes offerings - for a big box, that is.-t
Mike,
My son bought them in Lowes in E. Brunswick, NJ two weeks ago. They were boxed, but I don't recall the manufacturers name. They had switches and outlets. Now that I think about it, they were the designer type with the long toggle type switch. The outlets were the same and both took the same rectangular cover. I' ll get you a name the next time I go to Lowes.
That will be Cooper, most likely. Lowes switches and receptacles are all Cooper, at least out west.
BruceT
I'm off to Lowes today anyway -- I'll give another look to see if they've added them to the inventory.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I found the Leviton spec grade switches - back and side-wired - at HD today. Single pole $6.49, 3-way $10.90.I used them to replace back-stab switches in a house with copper-clad aluminum wiring that was damaged enough that the stripped ends broke off as I removed the old switches. No problem with spec grade, no work-hardening from bending or weakened wire from back-stab connection.
BruceT
Bruce T had it right, Cooper Industries. Sorry it took me so long to check them out.
Bruce,
Thank you. You are right. They are from Cooper industries. Took me a long time to get there.
Dan: Mine were NOT of that type - but I have seen them. From now on I am a believer - push & screw. I will check tonight once I get home on the outlet I think might be the culprit. If I replace it and it is still out then it might be time for my 'buddy' the electrition.
I was told not to use the receptacle for 'through' connections- instead, use wirenuts and pigtails. This eliminates problems like this, and also reduces the risk of overheating the receptacle when a heavy load is used downstream.??Bill
The preference is pigtails, for several reasons, but using the screw connections for "through" connections isn't really a **bad** idea, just not as good, generally, as using pigtails.
The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness. -John Kenneth Galbraith
Ummmm... am I mistaken or isn't using a receptacle as a junction a code violation?PaulB
http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com
http://www.finecontracting.com
"Ummmm... am I mistaken or isn't using a receptacle as a junction a code violation?"Only for the neutral on multiwire (shared neutral) circuits..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Mike,
A lot of breakers do not physically move to the OFF position when they trip. The handle will stay in the ON position. Move the breaker to OFF and snap it to ON. They have a spongy feel to them when tripped. Before you spend too much time checking other possibilities take a few minutes and check your breaker. Good luck.