I’m building a large addition to my house (mentioned here many times) and I’ve come to the point where I need to bring in more ampage. It appears that the main service panel that I now have is 125 amps(?) — not being an electrician I can’t tell for certain — and I would like to up it to a MIN. of 200 … maybe 250 or 300. My question is this: My structure is in a totally semi-commerciallized residential zone with houses and business all around and with wiring coming from utility poles to the back of the house. With this power service already extended to the house, is upgrading the service IN to the house only a matter of installing a panel that is large enough to accept more power and then wiring it in to the house? Or will it require the City to actually come out and supply more juice to the property? Electrical matters are what I know/understand the LEAST about in the overall building process, but I’d like to get all wiring and subpanels in before bringing in an electician to hook everything up. Wondering what’s next in the process of upgrading. Thanks – p.s. – I’ve got pics of the panel as it is now .. but don’t know how to ‘downsize’ them so that they aren’t so garganuan that they’re hard to sell well here. |
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NB,
The only one that can really answer that is your power company. Only they know what service is running to your house. I would bet that they only ran the minimum wiring needed to supply the original panel, so it would need upgrading for a larger service. You need to call them and ask.
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
Depends on the distance and the wire size you have now....
but I'm bettin' you'll need to upgrade the wires to the street for an increase to 200 or more.
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
In most cases the size of the marked on the end of the handles on the main breaker.
"Or will it require the City to actually come out and supply more juice to the property? "
By city are you talking about the power comapny. Most electrical utilites are privately owned or are co-op. But a few are municply owned.
In any case you will need to upgrade the meter socket, if needed, and makes sure that the wires in the riser are sized for the service.
In most areas you own the scoket and riser and wire in the riser. But the POCO supplies the meter and arial drop. So you need to verify that with them.
And yes, they need to know the size increase the drop needs replacing and possibly they might want to upgrade the transformer.
"and I would like to up it to a MIN. of 200 ... maybe 250 or 300. "
First you need to do a load calculation to see what you need.
http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/how-to/articles/sizing-electrical-service.aspx
But the next logical size above 200 is 320/400 amp.
You can get meters with dual lugs and install 2 main panels side by side with each have 1/2 the load. Or One panel and a overload disconnect that feeds a sub-panel in another part of the building.
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
If this worked then there is a pic here of the panel. It looks to me like, so far, it is utilizing 90 amps(?) I'm wondering if it is big enough to handle 200 amps? more?
thanks- (sorry I don't know how to 'reduce' pic size! -- if anyone does .. help!!!))
No way to tell from looking at the picture.Need to look at the listing. There should be a lable giving the details. Often on the door.But if counted right that is only a 24 slot panel.Any too few unless you are only thinking of using at a main disconnect and most of the loads will be on sub-panel(s)..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Bill,
I have as much as I need in the main house. I only want an upgrade to sub out to sub-panels. That, to me, looks like 90 amps is being utilized .. 9, 10amp switches .. am I right on that? So, if I were going to sub the juicw straight through and out to sub-panels, could I bring in as much as 320? Or would 200 be as much as could be handled?
I just spoke with an electrician by phone that said that to bring in the juice if it was just outside the wall already there and waiting would be somewhere around $2600! Can't understand why bringing those wires in through the wall would cost so much .. but he hasn't seen the set-up yet.
Thanks -
" That, to me, looks like 90 amps is being utilized .. 9, 10amp switches "First those are 10 amp breakers.I can't make out all of them, but you have a 30 amp and 40 amp 2 pole breakers.And 2 20 amp and 1 15 amp single pole breaker. I can't be sure what the ohter 2 are.As I said before. Look at the end of the handle. I can see that there are markings on the main handle, but I can't read them.The "10" is 10,000 AIC (amps interrupting capacity)And adding up the breakers don't mean anything. You need to LOAD CALCULATIONS."So, if I were going to sub the juicw straight through and out to sub-panels, could I bring in as much as 320? Or would 200 be as much as could be handled?"Again I have no idea what that panel will handle, you need to check the rating.But panels rated at over 200 amps are EXPENSIVE. That is why is it common for 320 service to use dual panels or disconnects side by side..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I'm not sure what yu mean by "written on the handle" (handle?)
but down in the corner of the cover in very fine print is written "125 amps" ... so maybe that's it.
thanks -
I believe bill is telling you to look on the large main breaker on top. The flip switch has the rating on the end of the flip tab. The main breaker is ususally the boxes rating. I just checked my main breaker, its a 200 main breaker and "200 " is on the end of the tab.
Curious, if you don't have electric baseboard heating etc. Its real hard to use more than 100 amps. People very rarely pop the main breaker
Not an expert just a FHB fan
PS (treading into deep water) I believe the meter box has to be rated for the amperage of the service box. The wires from the meter box to the service have to be rated for the service box. Do what I did..............hire someone who knows
"PS (treading into deep water) I believe the meter box has to be rated for the amperage of the service box."At least.But 200 amp meters and sockets are common. And his panel look fairly new. So most likely he has a 200 amp meter. But as you said the wire to the panel and up the riser needs to be so sized..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
But 200 amp meters and sockets are common. And his panel look fairly new. So most likely he has a 200 amp meter. But as you said the wire to the panel and up the riser needs to be so sized.
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The panel was put in in '94.
If it IS a "200 amp meter", will I still be able to "get meters with dual lugs and install 2 main panels side by side with each have 1/2 the load" or put in an "overload disconnect that feeds a sub-panel" as you mentioned yesterday? The house itself pretty much takes up what I have here that's showing. My addition is huge .. four floors and with a large shop on the ground floor .. small forced air heaters floor by floor and bathrooms and small kitchenettes .. so I'd like to go to 320. Sound doable?
I've got a retired/occasional-but-licensed electrician (craigslist) coming by to estimate it on Friday but I like to know as much as I can in advance.
thanks!
N
The meter base is probably not configured to accept dual lugs. Otherwise you could do that.But again, with a load calculation all of this discussion is meaningless..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
But again, with a load calculation all of this discussion is meaningless.
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I don't understand why you say this. (I'm assuming you meant to say "without" a load calculation ... ). You mean without calculating how much power I really need to be sent on to the the new sub panels in the new additions, right? But I KNOW from rough calc's that I WILL definitely need MORE than 200. And you, and others, have indicated that the next step up is 320. Therefore, doesn't it make sense to be asking the electrician about bringing in 320? How is this meaningless -- I don't understand.
thanks -
N.
Well unless you have electric heat is take a very big house to go over 200 amps..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I think a lot of folks think that they total up the breaker ratings and that is it. My POCO made me do a 400 amp Meter panel when we added on. It was not cheap and probably not all that much needed but with the heat pump and shop stuff a good margin for add-ons.For those who have fought for it Freedom has a flavor the protected will never know.
The amperage of the breakers is usually molded right into the end of the breaker.As I said you can read 30, 40 and 15 and 20 on the end of the other breakers."but down in the corner of the cover in very fine print is written "125 amps" " Most likely that is the max rating of the panel.It is possible, but rarely down, that there might be a smaller main breaker. And if that was done a 125 amp main could be installed..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
I can just make out 125
resized
We upgraded when we added on ... also have an outbuilding w/60 amp panel, workshop with 100 amp panel, 2 AC units, multiple sump pumps. We run about 100 amps of the load on an emergency panel (16 KW generator/transfer switch).
Total potential load was quite a bit above 200 amps
We brought in (underground) (3) 250 MCM feeders to a freestanding meter (320 A meter pan on galv. pipe - not mounted to the house, screened in shrubbery) and then ran parallel feeders (2 sets) to (2) new 40-circuit 150 amp panels.
To run under (and cut) the street the township made us hire a contractor with $10 million in liability insurance - believe it or not. Stick with overhead if you don't mind the cable.
Stay under 400 amps as your power company *may* require a CT cabinet and may impose standby charges for a residential service that size - ours does (PSEG).
Jeff
Edited 9/5/2008 8:20 am ET by Jeff_Clarke
As I said, I'll have two new kitchenettes with small electric ranges, microwaves, etc ... plus mid-sized electric forced air heaters room by room, and possibly electric on-demand tankless water heaters for two new bathrooms ... plus lights, computers, media, etc. No load calculations necessary to see that with the original house already taking 90 amps, another 110 -- taking it to only 200 -- will not suffice. I'd feel quite comfortable with 320 though. 400 would, I think, be overkill.
Thanks again Bill, and thanks to everyone who chimed in. Every new little angle or story helps to fill out the picture. Much appreciated!
N.
Where I'm from if your house is fed by #2 triplex that is good for 200 amps. You may still have to up grade your meter box to a 200 amp box. Also if you go higher then 200 amps (400 amps is the next highest here) you have to get a single phase CT (current transformer) cabinet and meter. This requires a meter box on top of a cabinet and a bigger panel inside. My local electric company is great to work with (for a utility company) and usually very helpful. Give them a call and see what they offer and what their cost are and hire a licsenced electrician. Your electric company will require it for a service up grade.
I just took a look at your photos... Are you sure you want to be using a metal handled screwdriver inside the service panel?
My other thought is this, are you adding these spaces with the intention of renting them? If so, any though about metering each living space individually?
Rebuilding my home in Cypress, CA
Also a CRX fanatic!
I don't feel it's healthy to keep your faults bottled up inside me.
And those screws sitting in there are a safety issue as well.
You probably don't need a 400A service, unless you plan on turning on everything in your house at once and leaving them on. Did you say that you are running a business from your house? That changes things a bit.
What I see is a 125A panel with about six existing circuits, and a whole lot of breaker spaces. I'm not good enough to tell you what size wire your feeders are just by looking at a picture, but it is standard for most utilities to supply 200A service for a residence. Assuming that the feeders and meter base wires are sized for 200A, it would just be a matter of having the power shut off at the transformer and switching panels. I believe with a current demand as high as 400A, you would need your own transformer installed on your property and an entirely new service, which would cost you a bunch of money, and probably not a job for a guy from craigslist.
I understand your problem. A four story addition will require quit a bit of juice.
320/400 service is not that bad. Local Lowes has the meter bases..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.