I’m a carpenter/contractor with 35 years experience, and one thing I’ve learned is to leave electrical work to the electricians. I’ve recently returned to CA from spending a year and a half in New Orleans, and walked into a friend’s remodeling project just as she was ready to kill everyone involved, and then herself.
Now everyone is gone, and I’m just about finished with all the little details, but there is one problem left to solve. There is an outlet on her kitchen wall, with a GFI on the left side of a 4 outlet box. On the right side is a switch at the top, and a regular plug at the bottom. There is a wire hanging from the ceiling over the stove to install a light. This wire is always hot, no matter which way I flip the switch. But if I push the button on the GFI, all the outlets on that wall go dead, and the ceiling wires go dead, too.
So I pulled the right side setup out of the outlet, and it has one white wire on the left of the plug at the bottom, and a couple of black wires on the right of the plug, and one black wire to the right of the switch, I believe.
I think an electrician should be able to rearrange the wires so the light is on the switch. But if I even mention the dope she had over here doing the electrical, she starts getting that look on her face, so I don’t go there. I don’t know anyone here to call, but I can find someone if I have to. Or is this something I can fix myself, with proper guidance from the experts at Breaktime?
Oh yeah, I did move the white wire at the left side of the plug at the bottom up to the top, to the left of the switch, and it tripped the breaker. See why I let the electricians do the electrical work? So I moved it back and left it alone.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Edited 1/28/2008 5:48 pm ET by SantaCruzBluz
Replies
This could be easy if you have a voltage and continuity tester.
Cut the power at the breaker. Verify that everything in the 4-gang box is off.
Put the continuity tester on the black wire and white wire at the ceiling. If you get a continuity indication, it's confirmation that both those wires are connected to the GFI. (A GFI has a coil in it that bridges the hot and neutral to create a very small voltage on the neutral, so that even if there is nothing plugged int the GFI, it'll trip if there's a neutral-to-ground fault. The injector coil has about a 1800 ohm impedance and most continuity testers read that as continuity).
Disconnect the two black wires from the GFI receptacle/switch combo and identify which black wire give continuity with the white one. That's the one going to the fixture. That black wire goes to the switch terminal on the GFI/switch combo. The device ought to be labelled and you can use the continuity tester to verify. Put the two probes across the two switch termianls and flip the switch, you will get continuity/non-continuity.
That should do it.
If you don't have a tester, put one of the black wires to the spot you wrongly put the white wire (when it tripped the breaker). Power up; if the light is on and the switch controls it, you're done. Power off and button it all up. Then ceck the receptacle/GFI and switch again. If the light comes on but the switch doesn't control it, power off and swap the two black wires. That oughta do it.
What it appears you have is a GFI receptacle (with a black and white attached, bringing power in), and a switch which gets power from the receptacle (internally). You just have to get the black wire that goes to the fixture to the terminal that's switched. It'll be a brass or black-colored screw.
Doing the continuity test of the switch is the best way to determine this. And doing a continuity check to find the black wire that goes to the fixture location is the better way than just trial and error. But you already made the worst trial and error combination--putting the hot (black) and neutral (white) directly across the switch terminals!
And man do I wish more people had your attitude on electrical--there are a lot of ways to hokk stuff up that will work, mostly, and the problem is, many times it takes only one subsequent change in corcumstances to create a very dangerous situation.
At any rate, good luck.
Cliff
Thanks for the replies. As y'all guessed, I have not taken the time to learn to understand a house wiring system. I can change out a light fixture, install a ceiling fan, and simple stuff like that. The wire overhead is definitely for a light. The range hood is already in and working. I'm sure the guy who wired it just got his wires crossed at the box. I'm going to take some time and make sure I understand your suggestion, CAP, and then dig into it. I do have a couple of testers, and I believe with your explanation I can find the problem. I'll let y'all know how this turns out.
This sounds like it could be a simple fix, but given what you've indicated about your level of knowledge of wiring, I would not suggest you tackle this. Get an electrician or someone who understands wiring.
Are you sure the hanging wire is for a light and not a hood, which would require constant power since it has its own switches?
What else is in that 4-gang box? It sounds like it could be a tangle.
If you insist on attempting this, you may be able to locate the cable from the light box as it would likely be coming into the top of the 4-gang box. If so (you can check it with a continuity tester if the power is off), then the white wire from that cable needs to be spliced to the incoming white (neutral) wire bundle, and the black wire needs to be connected to the other terminal of the switch.
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I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade here, but from what you've said and done, I would find someone who understands home electrical systems. This would not necessarily have to be a licensed electrician, but it has to be someone who has some practical experience in these matters.
A few years back I re-wired about 90% of our home and I was shocked to see the mess the wiring was in from completely incorrect wire sizes, no grounding system, overloaded circuits, and so on. In short, you have to take time to completely understand the circuit you're dealing with before you can make it right because these types of repairs are not to be guessed at. An experienced person knows what wires are supposed to be connected to receptacles, GFI's, switches and so on and should be able to understand which is the neutral, hot and ground. Wire color can often be misleading because in some areas (codes vary) the wrong color of wire is allowed so long as the end closest to the switch (or whatever) is taped with the correct color of tape to indicate that that line is a neutral (white), hot (black primary, red secondary), or green or bare for ground.
Worse case scenario is that you could be responsible for starting a fire or worse, endangering someone's life. I'd definitely stay on the safe side in this case to protect yourself if for no other reason.
Best of luck,
Phillip