Hello Everyone,
I’m running 12 gauge stranded wire through conduit, my question is when you curl the wire around the screw, it tends to seperate, leaving a messy connection. I’m using 4″ square boxes and 2 outlets per box. I thought about pigtails with solid wire, but I’m guessing that the box will get too crowded. ANyone have any ideas for this? I’ve alos thought of stakon terminals but I don’t have any right now and Home Depot won’t open until 10 AM.
Thanks
Dave
Replies
You could braze the ends with a soldering gun. Also, make sure you are putting the wire around the screw clockwise. Counterclockwise, the screw will almost always snarl the wire.
Thanks Rick,
My dad suggested that also, I'm hoping to avoid that though, seems pretty labor intensive and I'm sure I'll burn myself!
Dave
Go to bed and get the spade terminals in the morning. Do it right the first time and you won't have to ever open the box again.
Gunner,
My wife thanks you! Me too! Good night.
Dave
Spend a little more on a better outlet and get the one with the wire clamping feature. Insert the wire into the hole in the back and then tighten the screws. This is NOT the outlet with the little spring thing with the quick release. This eliminates the extra step in clamping a spade terminal to the end of each wire.
Thanks Ralph. I'll see if HD has them tomorrow.
Dave
Dave, when you strip the wire, don't go all the way off with the sheath. Leave a little bit on the end of the strand. This will keep all the strands together.__________________________________________
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
I see Calvin just posted what I was going to suggest.
And the outlets that Ralph mentioned are a good idea even if you don't use that feature. The 10 for $3.00 outlets are junk anyway. You want the better quality outlets.
However, there is something else that you want to look at. You said that you have two outlets in each box and I assume that you are feeding the circuit through to other boxes. That means that you are dasychaining the outlets anyway.
In a case like that pigtails or probably the way to go. And if you don't have room in the box you probably have too small a box for what you are doing.
Ralph is right on about getting some decent outlets. Ones with four holes for clamp-down screws (4 for neutral and 4 for hot) and do a pigtail for ground first. Then, you can shove all the grounds to the very back of the box.
And, of course, pre-bend your wires in a Z-fold pattern so it doesn't take much force to push the receptacles home. When some wires are perpendicular, that's when you push really hard, strip screws, etc.
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
I used to tin stranded wire before putting it under screw terminals. But that turns out to be a bad idea. Even under pressure like that, the tinned surface will oxidize and become resistive, which leads to heat and accelerated oxidation.
-- J.S.
The better outlets with clamp type wire connectors also have up to EIGHT holes.
"The better outlets with clamp type wire connectors also have up to EIGHT holes."
Ya, BUT!
You are right and it is legal. But if you have to replace it you end up with a handfull of wires that you have to mess with.
And you have still have to wrangle a large bunch of wires to get the recptacle back into the box.
I just like pigtailing. I think that it is cleaner and easier to handle. Besides, you still have to pigtail the grounds.
Hi, Bill -
re - I just like pigtailing. I think that it is cleaner and easier to handle. Besides, you still have to pigtail the grounds.
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I agree and would never run into a situation of having to use all eight holes. If I did, pigtailing would be the way.
However, when I thought parallel wiring was overkill I have used up to four holes for in/out.
Are some folks going ahead and using the screw terminal even on heavy duty recepticles with clampdown holes ?
Alan
Pigtailing is the better way if possible but if youre using all 8 holes in the outlet you probably are edging close to boxfill, esp when re modeling, using old boxes. the space saved with no wire nuts, everyone of which counts as a wire for boxfill (NEC) is substantial. This may not be a problem with a double box
In trouble shooting dead circuits, i find a lot of poor connections with these connections, its often the problem--one of the most frequent is that people use the smallest hole on the stripper,m nick the wire and it becomes seperated there.
Pig tailing is the best way, if possible. In this case, getting the screw fittings is defitely the way to go
Youre Home Depot doesn't open til 10:00?? ours opens everyday at 7:00, there's one open 24 hrs in The City, (SF)
James
' the space saved with no wire nuts, everyone of which counts as a wire for boxfill (NEC) is substantial."
I have often wonder about that and checked the NEC and could not find any reference to it.
(1996) 370-16 (b)(1) Conductor fill.
"Each conductor that originates outside the box and terminates or is spliced within the box..."
"A conductor, no part of which leaves the box, shall not be counted."
My reading of that is that pigtails are not counted. And as in this case where there this is a double box with two fixtures the jumper between them is not counted either.
Also I could not find any reference to a "wire nut" or other termination device.
It appears that the NEC does not count the wirenuts are pigtails, but in fact they do add up in the box and as you said some times direct wiring to the device is needed.
One other idea in addition to those given already: twist the stranded wire counterclockwise then place under the screw clockwise and tighten, That will pull the strands in instead of spreading them.
just went through this with 10 guage stranded wire (god, I hate stranded wire although it does pull through conduit nice an easy). I go with spade terminals wherever possible, I get a nice solid connection and it's easy to connect receptacles.
Dave, wouldn't it be easier to use the existing stranded to come into the box, then wire nut it to a solid pigtail for each duplex? This eliminates the problem with stranded wire under a standard screw.
Using solid wire at the device, you don't have the problem of stranded wire without the pressure foot under the screw. On industrial devices there is a square "washer" that has ridges stamped into the surface. That is the pressure foot. Without that foot or another approved connector style the UL inspectors won't pass an electrical assembly. I wouldn't use the stranded in a home without a lot of securing of those strands. I'm sure you could make it work but sheesh, you'll spend 30 minutes per box screwing around with the stranded and you'll always be suspicious.
Some people don't like the stranded wire and solid connections under a wirenut. As far as I know, it is accepted by the inspectors. A solution to that is the Wago Push nut. These are a bit more $ but try them. Your fingers will feel much better and you end up without the 'tumid' twisted conductors that don't want to be shoved back into the box. If you don't cut your time in half I'd be docking your pay.
Wago wirenuts come in many varieties, some just for solid wire, some for combinations of solid and stranded. Some for up to 8 conductors. All have a clear polycarbonate viewing window so you can look at the connection. The only caveat is they don't like very fine strand wire though. Standard THHN or MTW you are using will be fine for the Push Nuts.
Wago has a cruddy website & I couldn't find them there. Talk to your local electrical supply house for these. There are freebie boxes everywhere with sample bags. I hear from an inspector that Buchanan also makes some of those type connectors, although I haven't seen them.
Last thought. the spade lugs you were talking about, Dave, were not specified by brand. Functionally you want them where the ferrule (wire inlet part) is a solid tube that is either one piece or brazed then plated with tin. There are a bunch of the offshore brands that are glorified beer can metal stamped with a cute plastic collar. If the crimp comes undone by substandard materials you would wish you soldered it to the screw instead. If they aren't 10 cents each you'd better be checking the ferrule. Pay now or later on those babies.
Dave's repy is the one to go with. I get hospital grade Hubble outlets with the 8 holes for 87 cents per at surplus oulets in quantities for DIY (>>10's per year) that are the best quality. DW ocasionally complains that it is too hard to push the plug into these though - I think its great, nothing ever falls out if an extension cord hit a snag while you'rem pulling your saw around a corner.
Yep, that is a fine approach. Many roads to Rome. Have you tried the push nuts yet? I find them a friendly addition to pigtail technology. (if that can be said with a straight face.) The elimination of twisted connections of wires is the best feature.
Or do many roads lead to Romex?
David Thomas Overlooking Cook Inlet in Kenai, Alaska
> I get hospital grade Hubble outlets with the 8 holes for 87 cents per at surplus oulets in quantities
Where? I could sure use those at that price. (Or did you mean 87 cents per *hole*? ;-))
-- J.S.
You can get them for free if you work at a hospital and pay attention to renovations (used ones that is).