So……the house is built in 1953 and it looks like the electrical has been upgraded once in the past. I know its not adequate since you get interference on the telly when the you’re getting ice out of the refrigerator door and you can’t run the dishwasher, toaster and microwave at the same time.
As far as I know the major PIA in upgrading the electrical is pulling all of those new wires. I will be gutting the kitchen for a remodel so the walls will be open for that upgrade.
The long term plan is to do one room at the time basically gutting each to add insulation and replace windows.
My question is, is it practical to have a new service panel installed and add the new rooms as each are done as time and money permits?
I’m vaguely thinking that the old panel could be set up as a sub on the new panel.
Comments suggestions welcome.
Replies
First--I'm a Remodeler/GC not an electrician.
but,
"My question is, is it practical to have a new service panel installed and add the new rooms as each are done as time and money permits?
I'm vaguely thinking that the old panel could be set up as a sub on the new panel."
If your current service is outdated or inadequate--150amps, doesn't have a main disconnect for example--then without a doubt upgrade it.
If you don't want the new panel in the position of the old, then by all means the old, or a better panel may become a subpanel--or a big Junction box of sorts. There's a difference though. A subpanel is grounded back to the main box--basically.
Have at it.
"Research is what I'm doing when I don't know what I'm doing..."
Yo! Lefty-
My question is, is it practical to have a new service panel installed and add the new rooms as each are done as time and money permits?
Yes, that's a good approach. I'll tell you what works well in this situation for general lighting and receptacle branch circuits.
When you have the new service panel installed, have the sparky run several 3/4" conduits (flexible metal conduit, AKA Greenfield) from the new panel to the attic. I'm assuming the new service panel will be in the basement and it's a single story house. If no basement, or an outside panel, run a few conduits (EMT if outside, transition to flex inside) to attic and to crawlspace.
In the attic (or attic and crawlspace), install a big junction box (like 12" x 12" x 6") and run the conduits into it. Then as you gut and refurb each room, you can run romex from the j-box to the first box in the circuit.
To get power from the panel to the j-box, pull AWG 12 THHN wires into these conduits from the new service to the j-box. Solid wire if the distance is short with few bends (and no more than 180 degrees of bend in any case, without an intermediate pull box), and stranded if not. Each 3/4" conduit gets 10 wires: three groups of three, plus one: blue/red/white, black/red/white, blue/black/white, and green. Tape the wires in each group together loosely at intervals of 4" for the first and last two feet.
As an alternative, you could run 12-3 wg romex from the service panel to the j-box. I prefer to run flex and pull in free conductors, unless the path involves difficult fishing and a lot of bends.
This set up gives you six, 20 amp circuits (or 15 A if you prefer) and an equipment ground in each conduit. With three conduits, you have 18 circuits up in the attic. That ought to handle just about any house. A fourth run of flex (with just a pull string in it) would give you room for any future special needs--like a 30 amp 120/240V ckt for a spa in the master bath.
You can pull the wires into the conduits as you need 'em, but the ten wires ought to be pulled into each conduit at the same time--it's too likely that the insulation will be damaged if you pull in a few wires at a time. Not that it isn't done without a problem, but it's best to avoid it.
These are shared neutral circuits, AKA multiwire or Edison circuits. The two breakers for each group HAVE to be on different poles of the service. Some people don't like multi-wire circuits, because if the two hots wind up on the same pole, the neutral could wind up carrying up to twice the current it's rated for. That may burn the neutral wire off at the terminal bar, or fry a bad splice somewhere. I figure that there's a lot of other ways some ignorant person could screw up a good installation in the future, and that's not my problem.
If you don't want to use multiwire circuits, that means one neutral for each hot. Then you get fewer circuits in a conduit. Means more conduits and more wire. It's a waste of materials and time. Except...
For those circuits supplying bedrooms, you'd best avoid multi-wire circuits. This is because AFCI breakers are required per the 2005 NEC for bedrooms, and for a single pole AFCI breaker a neutral can't be shared. The 2008 NEC requires AFCI-protection for general lighting and convenience receptacles circuits too, so be aware of what version of the NEC your local or state code is based on.
For some panels, a two-pole AFCI breaker is available and can be used to protect a multi-wire circuit, but that's a very expensive approach. So, run a couple of flex conduits and run eight AWG 12 (four hots, four neutrals, marked in pairs) plus a grounding conductor in each. That'll give you four, 20 amp circuits per conduit, that will work just fine with AFCI breakers. Use the multiwire approach for the other circuits (unless you want to GFCI-protect any of them, then a shared neutral is a no-no).
In the j-box, install a grounding bar for the equipment grounds and land the equipment grounding conductors from the panel on it, and also the EGCs from the branch circuits. Oh, yea, and pre-drill holes on the sides of the j-box for 1/2" trade size cable clamps (that's a 7/8" hole). Use knockout plugs or filles for those you're not using right away. I'll tell you, it's a lot easier to make those holes when the j-box is on a bench or on the ground, and not screwed to a truss kicker in the attic. Some j-boxes have pre-punched knockouts, but usually not enough.
I'm vaguely thinking that the old panel could be set up as a sub on the new panel.
Yes, but...given that the new service panel and the old panel are in the same building, there has to be a four-wire feed from the new to the old: hot, hot, neutral, and equipment ground. And the neutrals have to be kept separate from the equipment grounds in the subpanel. And the neutrals have to be isolated from the can (housing)--called a floating busbar. This usually means some re-work in the subpanel.
But the approach is good. There are a lot more details that are important, but you're paying your sparky good money to worry the details.
Good luck--
Cliff
Edited 4/18/2008 1:04 pm ET by CAP
Edited 4/18/2008 1:08 pm ET by CAP