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Discussion Forum

Embedding dw tape: faster?

Biff_Loman | Posted in Construction Techniques on December 6, 2007 05:38am

Yep, the bag of Sheetrock 45 says you can use it to embed tape. Ha! I’ve tried it half a dozen times, with failures in each instance. I’ve tried varying the consistency of the mix, too, thinking maybe I was making it too dry.

I hate hate hate waiting for all-purpose joint compound to dry. Is there a faster way to embed tape?

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Replies

  1. mike_maines | Dec 06, 2007 06:09am | #1

    Do you try to topcoat the tape immediatly?  I have had much better luck since I learned to leave the surface of the tape as dry as possible on the first pass.

    1. Jim_Allen | Dec 06, 2007 06:13am | #3

      Interesting tip. Can you explain the reason that it works? Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

      1. dovetail97128 | Dec 06, 2007 06:18am | #4

        Mud on the top of the tape dries first , shrinks as it dries and pulls the tape ever so slightly away from the bedding mud. Also top coating paper immediately can force air through the tape and create a "bubble" beneath it. Or so I was taught.
        They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

      2. Stilletto | Dec 06, 2007 06:20am | #5

        I think he means after the you intially bed the tape you fill the tapered edges of the sheetrock at the same time.  Trying to eliminate an extra step. 

        If so I'm with him,  just bed it and leave it.  As regular joint compound dries it shrinks and sucks the tape tighter to the board.  Filling over the top results in it not sucking in to the board. 

        I don't use hot mud for bedding tape at all,  it doesn't shrink and it gets hard fast.  I bed it with normal JC then go over it with the hot mud,  depending on how much I need to finish it might be 20 minute or 45 minute. 

        If it's just a seam ot two I'll use 5 minute mud.  But you have to be moving to get rid of that before it hardens. 

         

        Matt- Woods favorite carpenter. 

        1. Jim_Allen | Dec 06, 2007 06:44am | #6

          Both of you and Doves replies makes sense. I've never really thought that much about it and I have had a few bubbles in my days. I never could figure out what the problem was though...now I know.
          Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

          1. Piffin | Dec 06, 2007 01:09pm | #7

            I always use hot mud for taping. I bed and topcoat at the same time, and never a problem.Anytime I have seen tape fail to adhere or blister off later, it was because the mud got squeezed out too thin UNDER the tape. It's a matter of technique. There is no problem with hot mud 'drying' too fast on top. It 'cures' throughout at he same time instead of drying.That is unless you have a furnace blasting straight onto it 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          2. JHOLE | Dec 06, 2007 02:39pm | #9

            Whew.

            I was startin' to think I was the only one who didn't have any problems doing a " full " first coat.

             Remodeling Contractor just on the other side of the Glass City

          3. Piffin | Dec 06, 2007 02:40pm | #10

            Tech Neak 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          4. MattSwanger | Dec 06, 2007 03:00pm | #12

            I used to bed and top coat it in one shot but every now and then I'd get a bubble.  Which isn't hard to fix,  I just cut it out and fill with the next coats of hot mud. 

            I taped a whole house recently with a banjo and regular JC,  I didn't end up with single bubble and the finish was as good as I have done.  It did take an extra day,  but it was worth it. 

             Woods favorite carpenter

          5. Biff_Loman | Dec 06, 2007 04:19pm | #15

            "I used to bed and top coat it in one shot but every now and then I'd get a bubble. Which isn't hard to fix, I just cut it out and fill with the next coats of hot mud."That's what I've done. I figured I was doing something wrong.

          6. marv | Dec 06, 2007 04:48pm | #16

            When I use hot mud, I just use fiberglass mesh tape...no need to worry about bubbles.You get out of life what you put into it......minus taxes.

            Marv

          7. DanH | Dec 06, 2007 06:09pm | #18

            I've found the self-stick paper tape to be easier to work with.
            If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

          8. Biff_Loman | Dec 07, 2007 01:43am | #19

            I tried wetting the tape with setting mud today, and it worked a treat. Ta da!

          9. pgproject | Dec 07, 2007 02:24am | #20

            I thought fiberglass mesh tape is the only type recommended for use with setting-type mud.

          10. rez | Dec 07, 2007 02:26am | #21

            That fiberglass sticky mesh tape is funky. I threw it away.

             

            be was a problem going somewhere to happen.

             

            Edited 12/6/2007 6:27 pm ET by rez

          11. Biff_Loman | Dec 07, 2007 02:40am | #22

            I tried it once. Not too happy.

          12. rez | Dec 07, 2007 02:46am | #23

            Always did ok with just wetting standard tape. Minimum of 1/8 inch under there seems a little thick to me tho'.

            Have heard tapers complain of hangers that butt the sheets too tight together making it hard on them somehow. 

          13. User avater
            BillHartmann | Dec 07, 2007 02:56am | #25

            It is the other way around.The fiberglass tape should only be used with a stronger "mud". I believe that there is a bedding premixed that can be used. But all you see is the all purpose and lightweight..
            .
            A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.

          14. Piffin | Dec 08, 2007 02:10pm | #39

            The other way aroundsetting type mud must be used with FG tape 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          15. DanH | Dec 08, 2007 03:59pm | #42

            I'vve heard that, but never had trouble with regular mud on FG tape.
            If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

          16. Huntdoctor | Dec 07, 2007 02:51am | #24

            Sounds to me like most people are making taping and mudding alot harder than it is. Self stick paper tape? Mesh tape? Problems with setting type mud? Nobody has said anything about sanding. How many times are you sanding in the end. I use paper tape, set and 2nd coat at one time, 3rd coat next, and top coat last (topping). Only one sand at the end. I use a vacuum sander for less mess. Damp wipe and paint. Remember the KISS theory!

            Russell, Allegan Michigan

          17. MattSwanger | Dec 07, 2007 03:18am | #26

            Allegan,   Michigan? 

            My wife is from there born and raised.  Small world. 

             

             Woods favorite carpenter

            AKA Stilletto

          18. Huntdoctor | Dec 07, 2007 03:39am | #29

            Don't mean to be off subject, But. I am a 1974 grad from Allegan maybe I know her. Been here since 67.

            Russell,

            The HomeOwners Handyman

            Liscensed and Insured.

            Allegan, Michigan

          19. MattSwanger | Dec 07, 2007 03:45am | #30

            You might know her parents.  The Mckendricks,  or her best friends parents the Lemleys. 

            Her mom still works at Perrigo. 

            I redid a house on Monroe st  (M-222) a few years ago for the youngest Lemley daughter.  I got to play around with your historical society.  

            Woods favorite carpenter

            FKA- Stilletto

            Edited 12/6/2007 7:46 pm ET by MattSwanger

          20. Huntdoctor | Dec 07, 2007 04:28am | #31

            Don't you mean our Histerical Sociaty! It still is the worst bunch to deal with. I won't.

            McKendricks does not ring a bell, but, Lemley's I know. Went to school with them. One is still in the area driving UPS truck. When did she graduate?

            Russell Gebhardt

            The HomeOwners Handyman

            Allegan, Michigan

          21. MattSwanger | Dec 07, 2007 04:43am | #32

            They gave me a hard time until I went to one of their meetings. 

            They fought me over the chimney I tore down,  it was about to fall over anyway.  When I showed them pictures of what condition it was in they agreed it needed to go. 

            Then they realized what house it was we were talking about,  then all they wanted was it to be fixed up.  They asked if it was going to be painted,  because they were sick of the light bulb that had burnt the paint on the front porch.  I told them it was and they said "do what you have to do,  that house is an eyesore.  Good Luck."  And that was the last I heard from them. 

            The youngest daughter was working for the postal service last time I knew.  Her house was the one I fixed up.  I think she graduated in 96 or 97.  Her dad Harold is a nice guy that I have gone fishing with quite a few times on Lake Eleven,  and Pike Lake off of M-40.   They live off of 108th street I believe past the ski resort. 

             Woods favorite carpenter

          22. Biff_Loman | Dec 07, 2007 07:16am | #36

            Well, the issue is with doing it a little more quickly.I don't anticipate doing a taping job larger than a bathroom any time soon. I'd say it's a waste of my time to be waiting for joint compound to dry; hence the impetus.

          23. Piffin | Dec 08, 2007 02:14pm | #40

            Right. Sanding early coats only makes the job harder and is a sign that too much mud is being used or used sloppily 

             

            Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          24. DanT | Dec 08, 2007 03:12pm | #41

            We have used self stick tape for 6 years.  The last batch seems to have less glue on it than before.  The stuff we bought before once dried would remove the paper from the drywall if you tried to pull it off.  Not this batch.  So we have wound up with bubbles galore.  Any problems on your end?  Where are you buying it?  DanT

          25. DanH | Dec 08, 2007 04:01pm | #43

            I haven't done any taping for a couple of years, so can't comment on that point.
            If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

          26. DanH | Dec 08, 2007 04:01pm | #44

            (Thought I was going to do some yesterday, in Rushford, but ended up hanging doors instead.)
            If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader

          27. peteduffy | Dec 08, 2007 05:38pm | #45

            I think wetting the tape when using setting-type compound is akin to wetting existing concrete when patching with new.  That way, it doesn't suck the water out of the mixture. 

            Unless the mud is mixed just right, dry tape will suck the water out of the compound, and it will dry in places before it cures.  It needs water to cure, just like concrete.Pete Duffy, Handyman

          28. MikeSmith | Dec 09, 2007 01:12am | #46

            marv... i'm with you.... since skim-coat came to town in the '80's.. even our drywall gets mesh tape

            hey... got a kitchen job comming up.. lot's of repairs.. ordered  a Butt Taper.. new job... new toyMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

          29. seeyou | Dec 09, 2007 01:48am | #47

            Mike - here's my limited experience: I've lived in while restoring 3 houses with plaster walls in need of much repair. The first one I skim coated using a combination of Durabond for the backfill and taping and premixed drywall mud for the final coat. I used mesh tape and a lot of the cracks came back.

            Before I did the second house, I talked to the best wall/ceiling guy around. He told me that the only thing I did wrong was to use mesh tape instead of paper.

            On the next two houses (both of which I kept longer than the 1st), I used the same process, except I switched to paper tape. Never had a crack return.  http://grantlogan.net/

             

            My mother once said to me, "Elwood" -- she always called me Elwood -- "Elwood, in this world you must be oh so smart or oh so pleasant." For years I tried smart. I recommend pleasant.

            Elwood P. Dowde (James Stewart), "Harvey"

      3. mike_maines | Dec 06, 2007 02:25pm | #8

        What dovetail said.  I am not a good taper, or at least I seem to have bad luck with it, so I need all the tricks I can get.  I used to get a lot of blisters.  Tried squeezing less mud out, more mud out, mix it wet, cover with more mud.  Found that the only way for me to prevent bubbles 95% of the time is to stay patient and let the tape show on the first pass. 

        If you're bedding in hot mud you'll be able to go back and recoat soon enough.

         

  2. seeyou | Dec 06, 2007 06:11am | #2

    What Mike said. Scrape the top of the tape dry and cover it with the next coat.

    http://grantlogan.net/

     

    It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. - J. Handey

  3. DanH | Dec 06, 2007 02:42pm | #11

    Wet the tape.

    If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
    1. wood4rd | Dec 06, 2007 04:56pm | #17

      Yep, wetting the tape helps, 1/8" layer or more of wet mud under the tape, no thin or bare spots. Skim over tape with light coat of wet mud. Setting type is good if wet enough. Green lid bucket has the best goey and the banjo helps to keep the mud even under the tape and faster. Never tried the self stick paper tape.

    2. Zano | Dec 07, 2007 03:21am | #27

      Dan H,You got it right..wet the tape. Setting mud dries to fast and thus does not penetrate or cling to the paper tape. Wetting it allows the wet tape to absorb the hot mud.

  4. DanH | Dec 06, 2007 03:07pm | #13

    Last (small) mudding job I did I used the self-adhesive paper tape and hot mud. Worked pretty well.

    If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
    1. Biff_Loman | Dec 06, 2007 04:17pm | #14

      Right on!

  5. IdahoDon | Dec 07, 2007 03:32am | #28

    Yep, what Piffin said.  Leave some mud under that tape.  After applying your tape, pull some of it back and you'll see what I mean.  If the mud is squeezed out there's not much to hold the two together.

     

    Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.

  6. MSA1 | Dec 07, 2007 06:17am | #33

    I absolutely refused to use paper tape till I saw my drywall guy set tape.

    I could never get the tape to not bubble and could not figure out why. When I watched my dw guy I noticed two things that make all the difference:

    1st: His mud was mixed so loose the only way I could describe it was "fluffy".

    2nd: He used a banjo. What does this mean? it means the tape is already wet when it hits the walls.

    Since I observed this I simply rip my tape to length, and drop it in a bucket of water while I mud the seam. By the time the muds up the tapes ready to go. Put the tape up and run it with a knife, no problems.

    As far as making it quicker, i've directly applied a second coat right on top of this and had no problems.

    Wanna get rich, ask a millionaire.

    Wanna learn drywall........... 

    1. Jim_Allen | Dec 07, 2007 06:27am | #34

      I've always used a banjo and it usually requires that it be loose. I still occasionally raise a bubble and I suspect that I'm cleaning too much out from underneath the tape. I don't usually put anything more than the extra mud from the overflow from the banjo tape. Bubbles haven't been a big problem but I'm glad to get an explanation about them. Bob's next test date: 12/10/07

      1. MSA1 | Dec 07, 2007 06:51am | #35

        I dont know what it was, I just know that I could not get anywhere with paper tape before I saw what my dw guy was doing.

        Wetting the tape made all the difference to me. Much better than using fiberglas tape everywhere.

    2. DonCanDo | Dec 07, 2007 12:44pm | #37

      It was probably here that I picked up the tip about wetting the paper tape before it goes on.  It really makes a big difference.  I don't soak it, though.  I just run it over a wet sponge to heavily dampen the tape.

      1. MSA1 | Dec 08, 2007 06:59am | #38

        I just toss it in the bucket while i'm running the line. You're right it doesnt need to be soaked through, sometimes i'll just dunk it in the water then I kind of squeege it through my fingers.

        The extra moisture helps. 

  7. DIYGuy | Dec 09, 2007 04:03am | #48

    I didn't read all 48 replies but I don't know why your tape fails. When I'm taping just a small area I set the tape and top it at the same time. I don't do it that way when taping more than a room only because then it's not efficient. My tape doesn't fail.

    Also, some people have mentioned wetting the tape. I tried it, didn't seem to do anything special but take more time.

    I use Durobond, not easy sand. Mix it thin, slap it into the joints, scrape between coats, yellow compound for the finish. Perfect every time.

    I think you must be mixing it too dry.

    1. Zano | Dec 09, 2007 04:54am | #49

      This is the best drywall tape for small jobs. I've been using it for 5 years now....what an enhancement for drywall taping!http://www.duratape.com/wet_stick.html

      1. mesic | Dec 09, 2007 08:43am | #50

        Dw said, "Put the dishes in the Dw." I said I have to tape some Dw first. I wonder what I'm talkin' about. WDIJS? LOL, Mesic

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