Since we periodically have discussions on emergency generators here on Breaktime, I thought this might be of interest to some:
Government to Study Generator Safety
Thu Oct 13, 9:43 PM ET
Investigators will look into improving generator safety after misuse of the portable power sources killed at least five people and sickened dozens more after Hurricane Katrina, the Consumer Product Safety Commission said Thursday.
Many Katrina victims relied on portable generators after the hurricane knocked out most of the power in the Gulf Region. Portable generators can emit carbon monoxide, a colorless, odorless gas that can kill or severely poison those inhaling the gas in poorly ventilated areas.
Calling the investigation a priority, CPSC Chairman Hal Stratton in a statement directed his staff to “consider all potential methods for improving portable generator safety,” including implementing an automatic cutoff that would shut down a generator when CO levels reach certain levels; assessing the sufficiency of current product warning labels addressing CO dangers; requiring manufacturers to develop products with lower CO emissions; and creating a public safety campaign with other federal agencies.
The five deaths were among fifty-one cases of carbon monoxide poisoning reported in Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama after the hurricane, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. All of these cases involved the misuse of portable generators, except for one that involved a gasoline-powered pressure washer. Four deaths occurred in one Louisiana house where a generator was used. The fifth death occurred in a Louisiana house where a generator was used in an attached garage.
Replies
Stupid is as stupid does.
,,,you can say that again....."
It's got to where the primary purpose of govt has shifted from protecting us from foreign enemies to protecting foolish people from themselves. When I was in ireland just last week, all the papers were ful of articles and letters to the editor about the problem they have with deaths on the roads.Speeding and alchohol is always at the root but all the blame is being cast on the police for not keeping those people off the roads in the first place. Not a word about the individual decisions and responsibilities.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
"Not a word about the individual decisions and responsibilities."Exactly how does that work out imposing consequences and forcing responsibility on people who don't care and have nothing to lose. Drunk drivers are the 'Suicide bombers' of the highways. Many are alcoholics bent on slow-motion suicide so dying on the road or any reasonable, or unreasonable, penalty isn't going to make any difference. Summary execution on the side of the road for drunk driving wouldn't make any difference once the shock effect wore off. They have nothing to lose.Take their license away and they drive without one. Lock them up and they live healthy on 'three hots and a cot' with all the low or no-cost public health care and dental they can absorb. Something most Americans only dream of.Take their car and they beg, buy or borrow or rent another beater. Some dealers have made it a business model to cater to this market by buying at the police auctions and selling to the same community that they were taken from in the first place.Simply put the general sense of a need for justice and accountability doesn't work functionally. An individual will always be able to, purposely or by accident, cause more physical, mental and/or economic damage than they would ever be able to pay for or repair.
4Lorn, tell us what you really think. Don't hold back, just get it off your chest.Lignum est bonum.
Lock them up and they live healthy on 'three hots and a cot' with all the low or no-cost public health care and dental they can absorb. Something most Americans only dream of.
Huh? You're joking - right? The "worst" portion of my life was spent in a prison of sorts, getting 3 hots and a cot - in the US submarine program - and all the free dental I dared allow to boot! Seriously, it was a fine place for a young man just starting out - I could never figure out the 50% of the guys who stayed to make it a career, though, as the pay is pretty poor even at the officer grades. 3 hots and a cot was no motivator to stay even though it was much riskier to leave and seek out new horizons.
Further, I read recently that home ownership is way up in the US - especially among minorities. I guess the picture you paint of dispair is mirrored only by your 'handle'.
More onto the point of this thread - all this is gonna do is drive up the cost of every generator - so go buy your 'last one for a lifetime' now before "Big Brother" causes the price to go up (again).Looks good from my house....
God has a way of weeding out the idiots
I prefer to say uneducated.
Tim
I read a report about the deaths which blamed the generator. It struck me odd...how can a generator kill? I have one, and I couldn't see a way to kill myself with it, short of intentional electrocution.
I read more, and found another account. The generator was being used....INDOORS! Yup..THATS a good way to kill yourself. Darwinism claims another......
Can you imagine????? Not that the smell would give you a clue....or the dizzyness or tiredness....how do people like that get and hold a job that affords them the ability to have children, and ...generators
Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
The story I read said that the people were afraid of leaving the generators outdoors where looters would steal them. Doesn't make it any smarter, though.
Wait a minute. It's 80-90 degrees at night with humidity in the 90s. Or more like a furnace inside without ac. You can't tell me these people actually had a generator inside with closed windows spewing heat and fumes and whatever noise level, thought that was okay. Unless those babies were pumping out 100 amps (not likely for a portable model) they wouldn't be running ac, refridgerator/freezers, lights and whatever they call necessities.
Maybe it was the drugs. Doesn't sound plausible, or tolerable by any standard.
NCtim
An artist avails himself to both the darkness and the light. A brave artist swims in the same water in which the personality of the psychotic drowns.
I have witnessed such a situation. I was on a service call in a neighborhood that was without power. The service drop on a home was down and hearing a small engine I assumed to be a generator I trot over to see if I could borrow a little power to run a drill. I get over to where the generator is and find that they have the generator set up in the garage next to the door leading to the house. It is located there because that is as far as the cords on the refrigerator, in the kitchen, and the freezer, in the garage will reach. Both are plugged in and running happily while the generator churns away.When I express my concerns they tell me everything is fine because: 'The windows are open'. I was told to mind my own business. I even offered to loan them some cords so the generator could be located in the open but was told it wasn't a problem. Any discussion of the potential disaster was roundly rejected. Figuring I want nothing to do with this possible disaster so I didn't even ask for any power. We limped through the repair on weak batteries and a brace and bit. Fortunately power was restored in a couple of hours. In my estimate they, as long as they kept the doors closed on the refrigerator and freezer, really didn't need the generator. I suspect that if the outage had been longer there would have been a good chance someone would have been seriously hurt by the setup they had.What these people didn't understand is that carbon monoxide attaches preferentially and fairly durably to the hemoglobin in the blood. Having a few windows open while the generator exhaust is still present won't get it. You can't effectively dilute this pollution enough with open windows to be safe long term. They didn't understand that you can be progressively poisoned by small exposures over a period of time. Breath a monoxide contaminated atmosphere for five minutes and then uncontaminated air for five minutes and at each repetition the concentration of monoxide in the blood will increase.It is not uncommon for chronic smokers to be suffering from minor, but not insignificant, carbon monoxide poisoning. A percentage of the hemoglobin in their blood can't carry oxygen because it is occupied by carbon monoxide. Yet another reason smokers move just a little slower and have lower endurance.The other symptom is dulled senses, confused and slow thinking. The headache, runny nose and general weakness is often confused as having a cold. A lot of folks suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning seal their fate by retreating to bed. Where they sleep their way into the hereafter.
"The other symptom is dulled senses, confused and slow thinking...."
And when you start off dull, confused and slow thinking...you have little chance!
Seriously, no generator I have been near has been clean running enough to be remotely tolerable. You KNOW you are breathing exhaust.
Darwin wins again...Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
What these people didn't understand is that carbon monoxide attaches preferentially and fairly durably to the hemoglobin in the blood.
I think the USN dive manual use to say it will attach itself to the oxygen bearing sites of hemoglobin at something like three or four to one. The other issue is that breathing is triggered by the build up of CO2 in the blood, not the need for O2. The dizziness that results is from the of lack of oxygen, but is seldom recognized, because there was no experience of "shortness of breath".
Dave
Dave, you are 100% correct - and CO has a 200% greater affinity for hemoglobin than O2. IOW, they would have to evacuate to a clean air area for at least 2 hours for every hour they were in the polluted area to clear out the CO from their lungs. So, if the build-up of CO2 don't get 'em, then the CO surely will.
My beef is with the hubris of our government legislatures and code officials thinking that they can fix stupidity by writing more costly codes. You know the old saying: 'you can lead a horse to water...' All these good intentioned idiots are gonna do is run up the cost of generators for the rest of us. Now let the courts get involved and allow damage claims by survivors.... Oh, swell....Looks good from my house....
or the dizziness or tiredness
That would be one of the vicious side effects of CO asphyxia, you lose the ability to concentrate, to ration clearly. As the CO level builds, that effects gets more pronounced.
how do people like that get and hold a job
Far too easily, would be the sad answer. Not entirely fair, no generalization ever really is.
Folk heard a storm's comin'. You need a generator for when the power goes out. Folk goes to the store and buys the generator that's there. It's probably an off the shelf, general purpose, model. Folk gets it home and out of the box. Now what? There's a couple o' spots to plug stuf in, but nothin' on runnin' t'house offa it. Well, best put the fridge on it; need an extension cord. Cord don't reach, move the genny closer.
So, that makes the Consumer Safety question more interesting. Do we mandate a CO cutoff, or do we mandate a genset-to-panel connection? Each has strong and weak points to argue.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
I counted at least four houses in my neighborhood that hook the generator to the meter box, during juantia. my neighborhood is only twenty houses. no junction box, no cutoff, just slick back an old cord.
Years ago I had worked a kid for about three years and him and his father demanded journeyman pay for him. I explained to pay him those wages he would have to run his own job for me . We all thought he possbly could do it and was worth a try. He became my drywall finisher with my tools and truck.
I was spraying a set of cabinets one night when his Father showed up in the doorway. His son had sprayed a ceiling for me with popcorn texture and set the gasoline compressor inside the room with no air as all the walls were vesqueened.
His fahter said he never was the same after that night.
Tim