Employee Awarness, Your Thoughts.
There are a lot of things that, looking back, I could’ve done better as an employee but today I’m thinking about ways that I could have been smarter about protecting my job, without kissing anyone’s glutes.
One thing that I never understood, until I became an employer, was the importance of being consistently on time.
It just never seemed that important to me, if I showed up a few minutes late, once or twice a week. I always came ready and willing to put in a good day’s work so, as one of the crew, how could it make a big difference if I wasn’t in harness at exactly 8 AM?
What I didn’t understand was that I stuck out in a negative way at a bad time. So even if I produced plenty of work without complaint, I was still remembered for being late.
For many people in management, the beginning of the work day isn’t real pleasant. They haven’t yet got in synch with the rhythm of the day’s work so anything or person that’s out of place really stands out.
Any negative energy that’s present within the manager/boss gets directed at that person. It could be something at home, a bad cup of coffee, a lousy driver on the road, anything and everything. It doesn’t need to be rational either because who’s going to argue with the boss?
Today I’d follow what I learned from some union guys, Always be Early.
Being on site, ready to work, five to ten minutes early every morning gives a strong impression that the job is important to me. It also gives the boss an opportunity to speak with me about the day’s work ahead and get me off his mind.
Being off the boss’s mind early in the day is an objective worth pursuing.
Being consistently early also buys me some slack. If I don’t perform quite up to par one day, it’ll probably be overlooked. Being early makes me look dedicated but being late and screwing up on some assignment could be my doom.
Any thoughts? What else can an employee do to protect his job, without looking like a jerk to the others on the crew?
Replies
> What else can an employee do to protect his job, without looking like a jerk to the others on the crew?
I keep asking myself that. I always showed up before most everyone else, left after most, took a short lunch, took very little time off (beyond vacation). Easy to get along with. Over 30 years of experience, not a job I couldn't do. Saved/earned the company probably a half-billion dollars over my career.
Still, I drew the short straw.
Still, I drew the short straw.
There have been working and/or living situations which, looking back, needed to change before my life could move on and grow.
From my current vantage point I can see those occasions pretty clearly, times and places where my spirit was interceding to move me along on my path.
I can also see opportunities I missed, times when I resisted an impulse or feeling to look outside my limited awareness for something new.
As a person who believes in following intuitive impressions, it pains me to admit that I missed several opportunities which could have been life and career altering.
So I'd say that you should feel content with all your efforts to progress with that company. Must be that there's something more rewarding and challenging coming your way. Seeing it will probably require a clear mind and a positive attitude.
Edited 8/18/2009 12:54 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
So you saved them five hundred million. That's nearly sixteen million per year over 30 years. You must have really pissed somebody off.How can you understand God if you can't understand people? How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?
More like they figured I had no more races to run, so it was off to the glue factory.
As I stood before the gates I realized that I never want to be as certain about anything as were the people who built this place. --Rabbi Sheila Peltz, on her visit to Auschwitz
The glue factory isn't so bad once you get used to it. Actually, it's more like "out to pasture".How can you understand God if you can't understand people? How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?
Hi HVC,
What else can an employee do to protect his job, without looking like a jerk to the others on the crew?
I'll probably sound rather crass here but that's who I am when it comes to worthless employee's.
If you've got an employee that "appears" to be a jerk because he is so punctual, hard working, clear headed, etc......it's time for a new crew.......or the boss man to help the crew "grow up". A sit down chat with a crew stating what your expectations are and why those expectations are important to you the boss, can go a long ways. More than once I've watched a quality worker get ostricised. They were accused of being a brown noser. I've had to let people go because they refused to play the game. The game is you conduct yourselves in a professional manner always. Don't wear my company shirts into a bar after work and pick fights. It puts a mark on our name, risks our customer base, loses us work and you a job. Don't ever drink with your employee's......don't be that kind of friend. Be the kind of friend that kicks in a few extra bucks when they head off on an "earned" vacation. Be the kind of boss that when you have an honest employee that comes down with a summer flu, you're over there that evening cutting his grass. If you wouldn't be so inclined to do that for an employee......you've got the wrong employee.....times are thin right now....good help is available.......a wealthy friend has a 58 yr. old handy man for $8 an hour originally.....the guy is college educated in an area and industry where there is nothing and at his age, moving is not a good option due to family etc. 60 days later my friend is paying the guy $15 an hour......because he's proven that he's worth it. The guy never asked for a dime more. He was thankful to be working and it was my friends responsibility to recognize that.
Although I've been self employed for most of my life......whether I was employed by a boss or by a client.....I've been consistent --- My job is to make the one I'm working for more money than they could possibly spend.....to the point they were willing to give me a greater share.......you never work for what you're being paid as the one that's paying is spending much more than he's paying to have you....he also pays half your SS, your replacement when you're on vacation, your risk insurance, possibly your health/life insurance and many other things. He also makes certain you still have work even when you occasionally mess up. He covers your mistakes. He carry's you through lean times and even more.
The boss man's reward for doing all of this is a very small profit for his efforts and if he's good enough at it, he can grow his business while hiring enough of you over and over until the little bit of profit per person rewards him with great wealth that he built. The last thing he needs is an employee who "only" works as hard as he is paid.
Thus my advice to any employee is to work as hard as they expect to be paid and their work ethic will be rewarded whether your current employer recognizes the need for the reward or whether a competitor with watchful eye makes the rewarded offer.
Pedro the Mule - This used to be the norm in the workforce two generations back
we have people, if you show up early, ten minutes, they want to be paid for it. If you work through lunch but get lunch thirty minute later, they want to get paid for lunch for that day. If you work ten minute over, they want that ten minute pay too BUT dont ask them too clock out for their 15 minute smoke break, every hour ten times a day.
You BrownBagg,
we have people, if you show up early, ten minutes, they want to be paid for it. If you work through lunch but get lunch thirty minute later, they want to get paid for lunch for that day. If you work ten minute over, they want that ten minute pay too BUT dont ask them too clock out for their 15 minute smoke break, every hour ten times a day.
For some it's time for a new employee
For many it's time for a new crew
For you it's time for a new company
Pedro the Mule - Ever wonder why factories are really moving offshore?
If I am working with another guy or a crew I consider it important to show up at least 15 mins. early. Heck, that gives me a cup of coffee, BS with the boys, and even some time to roll out my tools/supplies if I so choose. One thing that I really can't understand/agree with is the boss who EXPECTS you to roll out on your own time. I call BS. Any time which is directly dedicated to getting the work done counts.View Image
One thing that I really can't understand/agree with is the boss who EXPECTS you to roll out on your own time. I call BS. Any time which is directly dedicated to getting the work done counts.
I agree. As an employee the main problem with showing a willingness to do anything that is outside normal expectations is being taken advantage of by the kind of boss who doesn't respect his employees and their rights.
This is often true with relatives, friends and neighbors too. The best place to learn how to speak up is on the job where there are labor laws which define each person's rights and responsibilities.
Hi Ken,
One thing that I really can't understand/agree with is the boss who EXPECTS you to roll out on your own time. I call BS. Any time which is directly dedicated to getting the work done counts.
I always had to fight to contain my disgruntled attitude with the framer/owner I worked with one summer. He expected us to be on time and then he'd show up one day on time the others 10-20 minutes late and then refuse to pay anybody for the time we were waiting on him.
I started bringing my own power equipment short of compressor, guns and hoses and would have it setup when the bossman rolled in....the other two guys started helping me unload each morning. We'd often already be laying out walls and such when the owner would show up.....it bothered him but he kept his mouth shut and paid us fully from the start of each day whether he was there or not. Didn't get paid for the use of my equipment but I did get to work full days once again.
Pedro the Mule - If there's work to be done, then let's do it
I worked for a construction company (briefly) that expected you to show up a 1/2 hour early every day.
Employee or employer.
It works both ways.
The problem ( as I see it) is that the employer hold more of the cards.
But it's not like you can't suck it up.
My last job I had to sit down with my boss twice and had a heart to heart with her.
Both times i basically said I would work harder and change to make it work.
I submitted to her authority over me. After that she knew i had her back.
But it took two times! She figured I'd be like a lot of the other people she had worked with."There are three kinds of men: The one that learns by reading, the few who learn by observation and the rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves."Will Rogers
i work ten to fourteen hours a day, i average about 65-72 hours on a five day week. I also give my boss a hour a day. I dont have too but he pays for travel and gas. I drive three hours a day 160 miles. so I give a hour, that way he cant complain when I take a hour lunchinstead of thirty minute. I end up with 14 hoours because we place alot of concrete at 3 am, so I leave the house at 1:30 and get back at 6pm. typical day.
BB, I sure hope that you're gettin' rich 'cause that's an oppressive schedule for a free man.
Do you go fishin' or somethin' relaxing on the weekends?
Edited 8/19/2009 3:17 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
i sleep
But if you cut down to working only 40 hours a week couldn't you spend more time on here?
I never said I work those 70 hour, it great having internet on the job. I pouring concrete as we speak, watching it out my window
A sit down chat with a crew stating what your expectations are and why those expectations are important to you the boss, can go a long ways.
Very wise and useful idea, from the boss's point of view. Helps clear up any animosity that may be felt between crew member.
From the employee's point of view, there shouldn't be an obvious attempt to show anyone up. Arriving early only works well when it's done modestly, no attempt to get attention or make points.
Being in harmony with the other guys is important, as long as they all have a positive attitude about working as a unit.
Anyone I work with who tries to lead by being an outspoken complainer or critic gets no respect from me.
I had what you would call a desk job for about 15 yearsI noticed most people were late I started keeping track of every meeting or appointmentIt was literally about 90 percent Something that surprised me is people arriving late for a real estate closingThey were buying a houseOr they were selling a houseAND YET THEY COULDN'T SEEM TO MAKE IT ON TIME
Yo HVC,
Did a run with a real bad framing crew owner one summer during college. I knew I was underpaid and this guy liked to take off virtually every Friday even if we'd missed a day due to rain. He was missing a lot of other business sense too......I could spend more time writing a book on this guy than the actual hours we worked that summer.
Anyhow I've always been a real motivator on the job....set realistic goals and worked towards them. I forget the exact details but we had to run across the street on a subdivision job and pickup about 100 2x4's off the next job we were to frame.....same builders job.....anyhow the first guy grabs 4 and gets ready to walk back.....I said hold up you can carry more than that.....I had the 3rd guy load me up with 20 "first"....the guy that grabbed 4 originally then had the "man urge" to carry 20 also and the loader was able to load himself with 10....2 trips we were done.
Couple of old men framers on a job next to ours overheard and after work that day they hollered for me to come over. After some chit chat I told them I was committed to the other crew for the summer and was back in school come fall.....after some more chit chat it was determined that I would be paid double what I was already getting paid and I'd work for them on Friday and Saturday. I loved working with these hard working experienced guys. Learned a lot and made their lives a little easier to boot. Went back to school and worked for them every other Saturday through the year and all the next summer. Even got another raise the beginning of that summer. I had the back of youth, the teaching of masters and the willingness to work harder than I was paid to do. Finished school with no debt.
The real funny part of the story is me and the two old men on Fri/Sat outpaced our four man crew Mon-Thrs. All my bossman knew was these two old men could fly and he couldn't figure out why. That helped me get through the early part of each week working for such an idiot.
Pedro the Mule - Pays in the long run no matter what
If you can carry 20 construction framing 2x4x8 at one time, I don't want to mess with you. Are you sure you can carry 20 at once? We had a guy on our crew that was the strongest guy I'd ever met. I watched him carry a 4 x12 header about 10 to 12 feet long from the front of the job to the rear, I was on the second floor and unable to actually help out. I told him that although he could do it that he might consider getting some help with the heavier loads. Sometime later he ended up with a herniated disc in his back and he doesn't carry heavy stuff any more.
Hi Woodway,
If you can carry 20 construction framing 2x4x8 at one time, I don't want to mess with you. Are you sure you can carry 20 at once?
That was college days......incline machine squat pressed 875, benched 385, curled 165......crook your arms and lean two stacks of ten back against your chest and your only talking 200 lbs. ......you can almost run with that <grin>
6' 205 lbs. still bench over 300 lbs 25 yrs later but the curls are down to 115......back ain't as good as it used to be but I can still tote my share....keep muscles strong, lift "properly" and herniated disks normally won't be a problem. Some people have soft tissue but the majority of folks simply try to jerk stuff up and swing it around like they were a three year old......dumb dumb.....watch "World's Strong Men" competitions.....no doubt they will do some swinging and quick lifting but watch their center of gravity and warm up periods.
I have back trouble but not because of what I do.....it's poor disk genetics.....I have "less" back trouble because of staying strong and limber.
Mostly I'm fattin' up and slowing down.....desk job most days but spend all my free time still building stuff.......granfather was the inspiration at staying in shape....at 65 he could throw a softball 100 ft. further than his 38 year old smart butt son in law.....that was so funny!
Pedro the Mule - kinda small for a mule huhn?
Anyone I work with who tries to lead by being an outspoken complainer or critic gets no respect from me.ok that the topic of today. "what are you beeching about today" " why are you beeching" "do you ever quit beeching"ok, how do you know something broken if no body talk about it. How do you know there not a better way if everybody quiet. How do you know a cheaper or quicker wayIts like the empreour new clothes, How do yoou know.Is beeching really bad or is it you too hard headed to listen to people under you, your way or the highwaythis is a question not a complaint
Edited 8/18/2009 2:35 pm by brownbagg
I was looking at it from the employee's point of view when I wrote: "Anyone I work with who tries to lead by being an outspoken complainer or critic gets no respect from me."
Some guys gripe a lot when the boss isn't close by. That's a PIA for anyone who's trying to enjoy their work so, as another member of the crew, I tell that guy to put a sock in it.
oh we get that too but boss alway saying "what you beeching about now" Rememeber boss you trained me to beech, I is a inspector
Rememeber boss you trained me to beech, I is a inspector
That's funny. Comes back to bite him in the backside.
Couple other things-Please don't spend every break or lunch time biatching about what a d!ck the boss is. Let's spend the time enjoying each other's company, talking story, etc., a generally relaxed and positive break in the work day. And please turn the boombox OFF at lunch. A little peace and quiet and refuge from the other 8 hours.Act like a mature adult, if that's possible. Don't throw a tantrum by throwing your bags off the roof or tossing materials around. If I was the boss you'd be fired on the spot.What is the deal with bosses/foremen/leads who are SCREAMERS? Is that how you have your guys get things done? Having an even temper is gonna get MUCH better results.View Image
The answer to your question (from the laborer's perspective) is that of not knowing how to ask a question.
The boys "beeching" are demonstrating their lack of knowledge over something. They've been taught by uneducated parents/bosses that that is what one does when one "thinks" something is not normal.
There was this one small business guy that I went to high school with, he owned a fiberglas fab company. Hired the least educated/experienced guys on the cheep, but then sat them down and talked to them like a partner. Worked with them to show just exactly what he was looking for, and discussed the results/implications like both were partners interested in doing the best for the customer. And he would always lead into how this would be so good fo the customer and then for both of them.
He did this on the fly. Like he would be showing me his lastest reinforced injection molded fiberglas panels for boats and buses. A kid would be working on a die, and my buddy would talk low into his ear about some things and then pat the guy on the back for the good parts. The kid beamed and came back with some suggestions of his own, which were well taken. And then went back to the job with an extra dose of vigor.
So I'm saying the answer to your question lies in the skill of the boss and how he/she is able to properly motivate and retain integrity for all. This is something they don't teach in engineering classes or on construction sites. Too bad.
Great story. Don't we all wish we'd had a mentor like him.
The Greatest business in the world is for an employer to buy someone for what he thinks their worth and sell them for what they think there worth .
Being on time is a huge one for me.
The next couple are
1) Respect the entire crew. You may not like all the folks that your working with, but you better respect them and treat everyone well. We all have a common goal on a project-do not undermine it in any way.
2) Respect the client, their home and property-You are a guest at our clients house. Treat it well. Don't make yourself at home.
3) Respect company supplied tools. Treat company tools as your own. I better not find my 3/4' socket sitting in the mud.
4) Don't waste materials. Materials cost money don't waste them.
All of that is good stuff but it's from the boss's point of view.
From the employee's point of view, are you saying that knowing and following company policy is an effective way to keep the job?
From the employee's point of view, are you saying that knowing and following company policy is an effective way to keep the job?
Generally speaking yes.
Good but what if the company doesn't have any stated policies for employees? What if they expect their guys to use common sense and their own good judgement?
The reasons I ask are that I've never worked for a construction company, large or small, union or non-union, that had policies like you describe. And I've never put my own expectations for my crew members in writing either.
Common sense and a responsible attitude are what usually determine how employees in the trades are judged. And how long they keep the job. Granted, not everyone has a grasp of those two personal attributes but I'm not sure that making policy statements will correct that problem.
In my time the message was delivered verbally once, seldom twice. If it didn't penetrate the employee was fired without comment.
So the idea I had in mind for this thread is to put our past experiences as typical wager earning tradespeople into a perspective that allows others to see where we're coming from with our suggestions.
Edited 8/18/2009 4:55 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
As you pointed out that common sense covers much of what I wrote in my original response. I do have those as a written policy and spend a good amount of time discussing it with prospective hires during the interview process-namely stating point blank that these things are really important to me-do you think you will have any issue with these? and if hired, I review them once again.
I learned long ago you can't teach common sense and that no one can read anyone else's mind. So after two reviews of what is expected of employees, one warning and a long discussion at the end of the same day is all I give. I no longer wish to baby sit adults and if you are not able to work under these terms-which you knew about before coming on board, you may leave.
I really don't think that my being an employer diminishes the value of the comments. I work beside these folks day in and day out.
Bruce
Bruce,
I can appreciate why you find it's worthwhile to put policies in writing, specially when employees are likely to be out of your direct supervision. I've seldom had a second crew on a separate job so I've been able to depend on observation and education to motivate my employees.
I imagine that the interview process you use makes in possible to avoid hiring certain kinds of mis-fits. Saving time and money on new hires is a worthy aim. I just go about it verbally and intuitively.
Neither method is foolproof of course. Having a well tuned BS detector helps a lot, either way.
I'm not suggesting that being an employer makes your perceptions less valid. My aim here is to put our experiences as employees in the first person, so that others can identify with that position more completely and grasp whatever wisdom is being offered.
Edited 8/18/2009 5:29 pm by Hudson Valley Carpenter
"It just never seemed that important to me, if I showed up a few minutes late, once or twice a week."
Timing of infractions is important too. i learned that a few years ago.
Basically was alone in charge of drawings for multi-million dollar projects Put in 60-70 hour weeks at times. Worked late into the night, weekends, holidays, brought work home, whatever. Was rewarded as being the top member of my studio.
Then the economy tanks, the firm runs low on work, and i'm coming in a few minutes late because i'm dropping off a toddler at daycare. Got called to the carpet on it, regardless that i always made it up.
Couple weeks later, hello unemployment. The term 'what have you done for me lately' rang loud and true.
From a career in IT and Operations of 25 years and a carpentry career of 7 years, both as an employer and an employee it pretty simple. Make yourself the most valuble guy on the job for your boss.
It's not the same thing for every boss or even every job for the same boss.
For the guy I work for now, it's things like not just saying we need more wood but having a detailed list, written out that he can take. Talking to him everyday about what's coming up and what we need to be aware of. Looking for problems before they occur or at least before they become critical. It's the stuff you need to know to run a job, learn it, even if your not running the job or acting as the lead. Best gig I ever had we had three guys that worked like this, it was sweet just zero problems and zero surprises.
If your Boss doesn't appreciate it you probably should be working for someone else.
I'd just like to say that I think this is a splendid topic. I don't know if I can add too much from the employees first person point of view.
My first suggestion is to be the lowest paid and most productive but that isn't too helpful for anyone that is interested in prospering.
Construction sites simply aren't great places for lifetime security. You might always have a job to go to but it will usually be with a new employer. Face up to that fact, then figure a way to create a wide network. In that sense, having a wider variety of skills and tools will probably yield the most security, even if it's with multiple employers vs one employer.
The second most important element to longevity is to choose your employer wisely. Think in terms of how HIS employer is viewing him, and his crew. Watch to see that the employer is doing things in a way that makes him more valuable than any of the competing employers. This will give you a better chance at hanging on during lean times because the employer will still have work.
Good topic and I've enjoyed the responses.
I'm the opposite. I was never late as an employee. But a few minutes late has never been a big deal to me as an employer, I personally think the whole punctuality thing is over-rated. Work hard, be honest, care about the company, call in ahead of time if you're not going to make it in, concentrate on the job not on goofing around with your work buddies - those are the things that matter to me as an employer (when I had employees, that is!). A few minutes late? Stuff happens in the real world, no biggie.
Huck, I understand your point of view very well. We both grew up in the very laid back SF Valley, as members of the same generation.
One problem, coming from that background, is that we're too easy going for some business situations, as employees or contractors. Relaxed and friendly works well between us but is often seen as a weakness to be exploited, by others.
Anyway, I attribute some of my problems in the construction business to my early days, growing up in Duh Valley. Luckily I had to earn my living in NYC for a while. That's the opposite of the energy scale so I learned to be more aware and a bit tougher.
I also learned that I needed to promote myself as a craftsman and contractor. That's a lot more aggressive in character than my old Valley Dude attitude.
Nah, its not that. Its four years of working for the US Post Office, seeing the counterproductive results of management focusing on everything except what IS important. They're real big on micromanaging punch-in time. And how long of a break you take. And how many times you go to the bathroom, and how long you're in there. And which hand you use to do this or do that.
Thats not management by leadership, its peek over your shoulder, kick you in the a$$ and stab you in the back management.
I refuse to play that game.
A few minutes is not a big deal. A bad attitude costs infinitely more lost productivity than an employee hitting unexpected traffic on the way to work. And if an employee busts his rear to put out good productivity, but gets yelled at for hitting traffic on the way to work, you might have the recipe for turning a good employee into a bad one.
If an employee is looking to exploit a weakness in management, its not emphasizing punctuality that's gonna solve that problem. Better to deal with the real problem, which is attitude.
Attitude is 99% of what I look for in my employees. And my sub's too. Subs are sometimes late to a job. Stuff happens. Control is an illusion.View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
I wasn't aiming at punctuality with that post, just my awareness of how growing up in the valley groove effected my attitude in business, as both an employee and employer.
Interesting to note that I too worked for the post office as a temp clerk/carrier, though not for very long. I was driven up the wall by the same stuff you mentioned and the kind of people who thrived in that environment.
I too worked for the post office as a temp clerk/carrier, though not for very long. I was driven up the wall by the same stuff you mentioned
there's a reason for the expression "going postal"!! View Image bakersfieldremodel.com
Yep, sure is. Remembering several of the misfits who I came in contact with there, it doesn't surprise me either. Shocks me but doesn't surprise me.
I wonder if there's a message board for USPS employees? Can you imagine what their discussions would be like? Phu king bonkers.
I was out in the yard one day when the mailman came by, my neighbor was out in the yard as well and I overheard the mailman ask my neighbor if it was alright if he helped himself to an apple on the tree in the front yard.
Of course my neighbor said yeah sure help yourself. After the mailman was way out of earshot I went over and said to the neighbor, "who is gonna say no to the postman?"
I have built many new postal office where they have cat walks only access from outside to get to upper area with one way mirrors so the postal inspector can spy on employees. even if they never use the walk, it the threat that its there. i can really see why people go postal, no trust
Don't drink,
Don't smoke,
Don't spit,
Cuss only when it REALLY hurts,
Just like being a parent. ;-)
A La Carte Government funding... the real democracy.
Don't know if this has been discussed but some employers would warn a late employee.
Give him a couple of chances.
And then fire him.
What's interesting is, STUDIES HAVE SHOWN IT'S BETTER (FOR THE EMPLOYEE) TO FIRE HIM
Don't just lay him off or tell him I'll call you when things pick up again and we get busy
If you fire him it will motivate him
It will motivate him and he will better himself
Edited 8/20/2009 9:20 am by mrfixitusa