Hello all,
We are having trouble with one of our crew members “stretching” the hours on his weekly timesheet. He said he worked today, but I was there for 6 hours and he didn’t show at all.
We have always trusted everyone to keep daily track of their hours, rounded to the quarter hour.
Do any of you have your people actually punch in and out?
We are very flexible and understanding about schedules; kids etc, and allow people to make up time lost by working later, coming in early, etc. and it has become too much to deal with.
We like this employee’s work and want to keep him, but there’s no reason to steal.
rg
Replies
A year ago I had the same problem with the last house I did.
You can buy for under fifty bucks a time punch clock.....same as a having a contract with a customer...Its just a reminder during overloaded work and brain lock.
MAkes life easy for all involved
BE well
andy
My life is my practice!
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
The whole timeclock thing sound good, but I would not want to punch in and out myself. Occasionally, I must run errands early and don't get to the site until 9 or 10. I won't make a special trip to punch in.
I always tell the guys that I would never ask them to do any task that I wouldn't do myself, and I mean it, but there's no reason for a lead carp to take out the trash when there are guys on the site who don't even own a coping saw. These guys have to be trusted.
Thanks to all. rg
These guys have to be trusted.
I think you just answered it .
Tim Mooney
yep. rg
ricky... since you're his boss..
if it were me, i'd take him aside and have a talk with him.. tell him you notice his time doesn't agree with what you think it is...
let him know that you have to be able to count on him in all things... so you can feel confident in supporting him come hell or high water..
the time clock won't do it... it won't give you confidence in supporting him.. because the only thing it will do is keep track of his time..
it won't keep track of things he buys on your account... or the things the owner's leave lying around in their houses..
he has to understand that stealing time is the same as stealing money.. and anything that shows he can't be trusted just means he can't be trusted.... with your things or those of your customers....
let him know we all make mistakes... but he has to earn your trust or there will be no future with your company
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
"...on his weekly timesheet. He said he worked today, but I was there for 6 hours and he didn't show at all."
I'm sure I am missing something here, but how did he fill out his timesheet today, if he never showed? I'm going to assume they are kept at a different location. . .
I keep a folder full of timesheets in my briefcase. Every week they get one to fill out and return to the office.
We don't just hire anybody who asks for a job. I give them specific situations and ask what they would do.
I am the only person besides the owner who is allowed to charge on any of our accounts.
All these guys have to do is be honest. How hard can that be?
rg
Ricky,
I am unclear as to what position of authority you may hold in your company, but I would suggest you change the way you are handling the timecards. If feasible, have your employees turn them in daily.
A five minute employee meeting, explaining the front office is requesting absolute accuracy on the timecards, might give him the hint that you are paying attention.
As well, Mike Smith was absolutely right when he said:
" take him aside and have a talk with him.. tell him you notice his time doesn't agree with what you think it is...
let him know that you have to be able to count on him in all things...
Do you consider him to be an honest individual?
Or is he just sloppy when it comes to his timecard?
In my way of thinking, any individual responsible for punch, should be detail oriented enough to track their hours accurately.
darcy
FYI, I am the project manager/ lead carpenter on a 23 unit condo remodel. I do all of the ordering, estimating, scheduling, and the special skill parts. The crew does demo, task prep, smaller repairs, painting, and other duties as assigned.
I'll ask everyone today who worked on Saturday, and since I WAS there, anyone who says they were will be made an offer to change their answer or leave immediately.
Do you guys think that giving somebody the business in front of the whole crew does more damage than good? Or should I keep it one on one? I once had to terminate an entire crew, so I'm not afraid to do it. I just need the help.
I was thinking that when he answers with a lie this morning, I could just tell the office to not pay him for his Saturday hours, and when he complains, I'll let him know we were onto him. It's a little sneaky, but I've found that sometimes you need to keep a few things in your back pocket when dealing with people.
Thanks guys. rg
Find out what really happened FIRST!
Then confront him one on one.
Listen to his story and decide.
If you decide to keep him tell him he needs to be more carefull about his time.
If he needs to be terminated then the rest of the crew should know why.
Mr T
Do not try this at home!
I am an Experienced Professional!
talk to him privately - - the only time (that I can think of right now anyway) to shake someone up in front of the crew is for real time safety violations.
Hi Ricky,
The more information you offer, the more questions I have. Since you do all the scheduling,
Was he scheduled to work on Saturday?
You should have a private and candid conversation with him, not in front of the crew. Ask him if he worked Saturday, and after he answers, then let him know you were there for 6 hours. Then make your decision
Yes, I do think that giving somebody the business in front of the whole crew does more damage than good. There is no reason to damage all the employee's morale if there is only one abusing the system.
I also think you or your company need to change how the timecards are handled. It sounds like the system your company is using now has gaps which allow sloppiness and inaccuracy.
darcy
Edited 12/29/2003 12:35:14 PM ET by darcey
Ricky,
Being the type that loves to do research and solve problems, I tracked down a couple of articles for you at JLC (they are free articles in pdf form). I'm sure there are many more out there. . . Housingzone.com might be another good place to look, too. Even if they contain more information that is more than you plan to implement, you may find some of ituseful.
Tracking Your Time
JuneÊ2002 ÊÃÅ
By Peter Bush ÃÅ
A time card can improve the accuracy of your estimates, cut worker's comp costs, and increase your profit. A custom builder shares his system.
Calculating Labor Costs
FebruaryÊ2002 ÊÃÅ
By Shawn McCadden ÃÅ
The hard cost of labor includes taxes, insurance, employee benefits, vehicle expenses, and more. Failing to account for these expenses will take a large chunk out of your bottom line, as this remodeling contractor illustrates.
hope these help!
darcy
I am an employee who does his own timesheet. Occasionaly I do not fill out my timesheet on a daily basis and there is noone to ask, hey, where were we? I made the mistake once of over charging the boss on hours. Nothing was said, but when i realised what I did, I went to the payroll office and made repayment. Is there any chance this happened to you?
Sounds like he just gave himself a little raise (or maybe a Christmas bonus). How long has this guy been with you? Could there be some reason why he thinks you owe him ?
I'd ask myself this first; then I'd ask him. If he's worth keeping, it's worth a little effort to try to resolve the situation. Then again, some folks are just plain greedy, or self-destructive.
we had that problem too, but since we charge the customer by the hour, it wasn't a major problem. It was still lying though. So instead of a time clock we went with a comuter timeclock at the shop. Yes it bad because we work away from the shop too, but that what you get when you cannot be trusted. we must drive to the shop everymorning at 5am clock in, work the project, drive back to shop clock out and then drive home. Our next problem is stopping people from clocking other in. I myself work 93 miles away from shop and I have to drivein everyday. It reallly not that bad. and you can't change the time on the computer because it tattles on you.
The best employee you can have but you wouldn't want him as a neighbor " He the shifty type"
This guy has been with us for about 6 months. He handles the final punch list stuff and is very good at it.
He also does alot of the little c r a p jobs that cost too much for me to do.
Every crew needs a guy like that. rg
If the guy is a good worker I would recommend paying him "piece work". That will give him more incentive to start on time and put in more productive hours. You may find his productivity increases ten fold. When he is done with this job he'll be on to the next one with vigor.
It will give him more of a sense of pride knowing he has the opportunity to increase his own payroll by getting the job done in a timely manner and not have to mess with a time clock.
You see, if you offer to pay $1500. and it only takes him a week he is making about $37.50 an hour but if it takes him two weeks he only makes about $18.75 providing he works 40 hours a week.View Image
View Image
"Rather be a hammer than a nail"
Bob
A guy doing punch work would be a tough one to put on piece work. He is also doing the $h!tty jobs knowone else will take. Tough call. A good punch man is hard to find in commercial work, and I would think equally difficult in residential. He is the last guy the customer sees working. He fixes others mistakes, things left undone, and the things they "just thought of".
Sounds like Mike has the right first approach.
Last method is proving he is not on the job and discharge. BTW stealing time is not a dischargeable offense if you can not prove he was not there. Even then it is tough when you have self reporting on time sheets. Falsification of company records (time sheets) is generally accepted as justifyable. He needs to know his state labor department regulations on time keeping/record keeping and discharge able offenses that keep him within bounds.
Dave
If you are happy with his work and his attitude in general then you deserve to listen to him. He might have a good and honest answer, or you may find out a differnt side to him.
Got to be open and honest with your employees and they need to be honest with you.
If its not right let him go. With all the work you have to do you dont need that extra burden of a dishonest employee. If he is dishonest with his hours it might just be the tip of an iceberg
Okay, here's the poop.
I took each crew member aside and asked them if they had worked Saturday. The suspect said he did. I asked him if he wanted to change his answer. He looked a little nervous and stuttered a bit. Must have been the way I asked the question.
I told him I was here and didn't see him. Mr. Smartazz sure changed faces in a hurry. He admitted his dishonesty and asked if he was fired.
I didn't say anything for a minute. Then I told him in a very firm tone to never do anything dishonest to us again, and did he really think he could get away with something like that. He apologized about thirty times, almost in tears. I then called the office and changed his hours, in his presence.
Then I told him to get to work and do the good job I know he can do.
He and his radio weren't as loud as they usually are for the rest of the day.
rg
good move , ricky..... now... how to get him on your side..?
some people have no moral compass.... they act out what they were taught ..
if you can show him another path... you both might wind up collecting social security together...
course.. what we have to watch out for is hubris.. thta we don't get wrapped up in our own version of "morally correct"
i find it's best to just keep talking about how honesty eventually reaps it's own rewards... how much we count on one another.......... and need to Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Moral compass....
I like that Mike. Mind if I use It?
Dave
You wouldn't be a Scrabble player would you? rg
no... what was it ? the "hubris " ?
hah, hah, hah... how nixonian...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Sounds like you handled that like a leader rather than a dictator. Hope the opportunity extended to your employee pays off for you.Kevin Halliburton
"I believe that architecture is a pragmatic art. To become art it must be built on a foundation of necessity." - I.M. Pei -
I got one ol man that been with the company 30 years, every morning he clock his son in at 6am ( son arrives at 7) and then son clocks both out at 5pm. It doesn't look right because the time cards are the same to the minute everyday. Ol man is so stubburn, he just won't listen, just argue. " He my son, I can if I want" BS
The best employee you can have but you wouldn't want him as a neighbor " He the shifty type"
ricky,
Sounds well handled, but as Reagan said "Trust, but verify".
When I was running crews, I made selective use of time clocks. Sometimes there, sometimes not. If the crew was doing MacDonalds for lunch, I noticed that the first week with the clock, the lunch 1/2 hour EVERYONE reported would rise to 47 minutes or 58 minutes; the second week, everyone brought lunch.
I also noticed that '8:00' became '8:17' or '8:32'. The same phenomenon occurred with '5:00', which was often '4:42'.
Some were very honest, others were not. The honest never complained about the dishonest, although I wish that they would have, (so I could have pointed out, 'Sorry I can't afford to give you a raise, but THAT GUY has been cheating me for six months, and you knew it. Go talk to him.').
As pointed out above, the problem with a time clock is 'sweethearting', (You punch me in, I'll punch you out.) The solution that worked for me was a trusted foreman held the cards, ('I'm here'. 'Fine, punch in and bring me back the card'.) If you don't have a trusted foreman, Lord help you.
Good luck!
skipj