epoxy floor for my garage/shop-HELP!
Need some help with the garage floor at my new house/shop. The existing 20 x 20 cement floor is showing its age (45 years). I need to fill some spalled areas (from salt drippping off cars) and clean some oil stains. I’m thinking about a self leveling cement with a epoxy finish over. Sika makes a bunch of products for this but I can’t make heads or tails out of it on their web site. I know prep is critical and I’m not going to do this twice! I need my shop set up and this lousy floor keeps my tools in storage! Any advice/websites with info would be a help. Thanks, JZ
When all else fails, lower your standards.
Replies
This site has some good information.
http://www.epoxyproducts.com/garage4u.html
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
The link you included is for the Rustoleum line of epoxy products.We just built a double garage, and the client has asked about painting the floor with epoxy. I have seen the water based Rustoleum epoxy on a floor, but I am guessing their solvent based epoxy would be a better choice -- although it requires etching.Any opinions?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Opinions????
Of course! Thats what were here for!
Check out the descriptive literature on the different epoxies and you will find that the durability of Solvent based is much better than Water based ( ie: chemical resistance, abrasion, water immersion etc.) Rustoleum used to put out an applications guide to their high performance coating products, it is excellent & you should get it if you can.
As mentioned, substrate prep is critical I have also read.! IMHO any coating with a lifetime & cost such as epoxy demands good prep, if for no other reason than its so d**n hard to get the stuff off if you aren't happy with the result!
In the guide you will find suggested that for concrete floors you should:
Verify that your concrete has cured (at least 28 days) AND
Is dry as determined by a taped down plastic sheet test for condensation
Has a surface profile good for max. adhesion and optimally
Will not allow ground moisture to migrate up through the slab (a vapour barrier beneath it)
I like epoxy because it is a 2-part material that cures regardless of humidity; you can paint on humid days as long as the minimum temp. is respected. The stuff is tough! You won't be repainting in a couple of years because a spill has dissolved the coating!
The solvents in the epoxy are strong, (Tolulene, Xylol etc.) and will dissolve lesser coatings so don't paint over anything but bare or other epoxies or 2-part polyurethanes.
FWIW if your coating has a life of a only few years anyway, why bother trying for good adhesion by etching etc.? The paint will fail anyway so who cares if it also lifts?
With an epoxy coating it can easily reach over a decade of life in harsh conditions so having it flake off because of poor adhesion is a waste;... do the prep!.
I have an epoxy coated floor approaching 20 yrs. of service, still in good shape: no flaking, lifting, peeling with only a total lack of gloss from when it was new. It has had gasoline, brake fluid, hydraulic fluids, oil, grease, methyl alcohol, and dog urine?? spilled on it. I've cleaned it with acetone, tolulene, xylol, MEK, soap & water and pressure washed it a number of times. Try that with a HD floor enamel!
Solvent based epoxys are good for wash-down service ie; frequent washing without failing. They protect the concrete which can break down by carbonation from atmospheric contaminates or sulphate exposure. IMHO the best time to do the painting is when the floor is new, a once in a lifetime thing!
As you can see I am a big fan of epoxys. The only coating I like even better is a 2-Part Polyurethane that has many of the epoxy benefits as well as superior gloss maintainance (not a good thing for foot traffic on a floor, however)
You might want to suggest adding a silica non-skid additive in the top coat to make the floor more slip resistant. (I would use ordinary Sand Blasting silica sand in the proportions that Rustoleum suggest for their non-skid additive (which is overpriced). I can buy Sandblasting Silica in a 100lb bag for about $12.00)
I don't believe your clients will be sorry if you do a good application of a 2-coat epoxy coating on their floor, it can easily last decades with very little (if any!) maintenance.
Good luck to you and your clients.
I got sherwin william two part epoxy on my floor. anything you drop takes a hunk of epoxy with it.
just curious, does the concrete chip out with the epoxy hunk or does the epoxy lift off an undamaged concrete surface?
I have some nickel size drops of epoxy from a project that landed on my dirty unprepped garage floor. And it is sticks. If you try to scrap it with a shovel it will take the concrete with it.But I am sure if I had cleaned and etched it first and them tried to put on an epoxy coating that the coat would be pealing off in 24 hours. At least that is what Murphy claims.
Bill, the way I understand it, Murphy was an OPTIMIST!
Have a good one.
So, I clicked on the link above for the Garage Journal, then the first story, "The Ultimate Mobile Garage"....
Wow...after reading what that guy has done, I feel so....insignificant!!
Check it out. http://www.cardomain.com/ride/340096/5Jake Gulick
[email protected]
CarriageHouse Design
Black Rock, CT
Thats the prep. I use that product all the time and its performance is exceptional."Sometimes when I consider what tremendous consequences come from little things, I am tempted to think -- there are no little things" - Bruce Barton
thanks to you and Hammer for the info. since I am going to use a solvent based epoxy, I have to wait a month before application. But this stuff needs to be etched. Can I get away with etching it now (about 2 weeks into my month), or do I have to wait until a couple of days before I apply the epoxy?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
You're most welcome.
My opinions are usually free, (and worth about the same amount).
IIRC, acid etching requires a thorough water rinse to remove the salts produced by the reaction between the cement (strongly Alkali), and the acid you use for etching.(I used Muriatic acid (Hydrochloric Acid). The acid was purchased in a bulk buy I made from a swimming pool supplier of chemicals. (Muriatic acid is apparently used to adjust the PH of pool water.)
I didn't etch until after the concrete had been damp cured. (at least 28 days I've been advised, I let it go 2 months). I haven't really thought much about what etching might do to the curing process of the surface layer of concrete before curing is complete. My instinct said wait the full cure time rather than experiment.
After the rinse you still need to wait for the concrete to dry before applying the epoxy. It took me 2 weeks after rinsing before the plastic sheet test came up with no more condensation. Then I could vacuum it a final time and finally get to paint it.
I used about 1 litre of acid per 10 ft2 and used it full strength. I waited until all the bubbling stopped , about 10 min , before worrying about rinsing. In practice I just etched the whole floor at once, one area at a time,and just started rinsing the 1st area I had started with once the whole surface was etched. The acid self neutralizes very quickly once in contact with the concrete so I didn't really worry about unreacted acid being left behind. The rinse was mostly done to remove the residual salt and fine sand produced by the reaction. I suited up in rubber boots, rubberized rain suit, rubber gauntlet gloves, full respirator (not a paper mask), and goggles. The acid is nasty stuff! I just dropped all the gear in a rain barrel of water afterwards to get rid of the acid that managed to splash on me, which happened in that 1st 1/2 a second that I was working!
A sacrificial push broom was very helpful to clean up the residue; the slimy stuff needed some muscle to get out of the nicely etched surface. A fine layer of sand was also released from the concrete once the cement paste had been etched away by the acid, that needed to be vacuumed up once dry.
Once etched, the floor needed to be kept clean, the etched surface was as rough as a bear's azz, the 80 grit paper someone mentioned, and trapped dirt easily, requiring more vacuuming! I tried to keep foot traffic off for the 2 weeks but couldn't cover it with poly as I was trying to dry it and didn't want to trap the moisture in. In retrospect I could have used a cloth cover of some sort but didn't have anything handy.
That sucker really soaked up the first coat of epoxy I put on!, I thinned it out somewhat to improve the penetration into the surface (as was suggested) and used the same colour of top coat so I had to watch for full coverage with the top coat,( just watching for the sheen kept me from leaving uncoated primer coat.) The epoxy solvents are also nasty, the respirator came in handy again even with fairly good ventilation (the overhead door was left open during the painting.)
I'm basically a lazy guy, & although it does seem like a lot of labour and time to do it, I'm hoping that its a once in a lifetime thing that I'll never, ever, do to that floor again!
Hopes this proves helpful.
Thanks much. The clients are in Europe until the end of June, and the garage will be unused until then. So I have plenty of time. From what you say, it would probably be a good idea to hold off on the etching until the beginning of May (which would be a month after the pour)I can then let it sit for however long it takes to dry out before laying the epoxy down. I appreciate that you have taken the time to share you experience.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Hi Nikkiwood,
The link is to a distributor of epoxy coatings, Progressive Epoxy Polymers Inc. They have posted a great deal of info on epoxy coatings, some of which, pertains to garage floors. I thought it would help the original poster to determine if his floor is suitable for an epoxy coating and answer questions. If you read through the site and follow some links, things like acid etching are discussed. Personally, I try to stay away from acid. There are many issues using it. Of course, there are all the safety and environmental concerns. Some of the stronger acids will attack metal, like your nails, and if the acid isn't completely neutralized, it can affect the coatings. Floor coatings generally work as a system. Once you choose a product, you should follow the manufacturers directions. There are a lot of products available from high tech industrial to DIY. The success of any of them will depend on the concrete's condition.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
At one time I had a link to an industail coating company. It was not just epoxies, but also other kinds of coatings and it also have prep for all kind of different materials and types.For epoxy on concrete it primarily recommend mechanical adbrasion and metion that etching could also be used.They wanted the finish to be similar to #80 sandpaper.
I may be wrong, but I think if you level the floor with concrete (cement), you will have to wait a specified amount of time before coating it with epoxy. IIRC you cannot paint epoxy onto new concrete. (But, I may be wrong.)
jz,
This system seems to be the most popular in the Hot Rod circles. I know several guys that have done thier own garages over the last few years and it really is nice. I am thinking about doing my shop with it.
http://www.ucoatit.com/
You might also want to go to this site and check out the "flooring" forum:
http://www.garagejournal.com/
Hope this helps,
Bill Koustenis
Advanced Automotive Machine
Waldorf Md
I bought the Rustoleum product for garage floors, they have one for basement and a heavy duty one for shops (or something?). The garage and basement one looks the same on the outside except for color choices. I could not find the heavy duty product and Lowes or HD.
Prep was labor intensive the floor was pretty dirty 25 years of stuff, washed it first with a degreaser and stiff brush. Had some oil spills and blood? and whatever else. Rinse well with clean water, then I used the kit supplied acid scrub and rinse twice. Once dry if there is any white powdery haze from the etching that needs to be rinsed agin. I had some so I just spot rinsed and wiped it dry. The area was only about 600sqft but I was worn out after washing,scrubbing,rinse, squeege,wash with acid,squeege, rinse, squeege,rinse,squeege rinse,squeege. Did I mention it's a good idea to get a squeege.
So far I'm still moving into the shop, but the floor looks great and is tough. I used the plastic flakes for the surface at first I wasn't but then thought it might help for slip resistance. I needed to kits and it was down tho the last drop I think the area is 540 or something. Make sure you have enough product on hand, you can come back if you run out but you may see a line where you stopped.
Think I would look into the heavy duty product if I do the main garages cost is a bit more but worth it if it is thicker or longer wearing.
I looked at some of the professional coatings available and they are expensive $1500-2000, I did mine for under $150 and for a small woodworking shop I think it will be fine.
Just wanted to add I looked at the Ucoat system, don't know how much it differs from the Rustoleum product but that might be a good way to go . I have heard of some people using it with good results.
Edited 4/22/2006 11:38 am ET by jeffwoodwork
Your client will most likely complain in the future if you use an inexpensive epoxy (behr, sw, rustoleum...) when they come home and park their car in the garage. their tires will eat away at the epoxy. I have tried them all this is the best product for this type of application.
Hot Trax by Insl-x
http://www.insl-x.com/Product_Summary.asp?ProductID=257
My garage floor is a concrete slab with a urethane coating system on its surface.
I cannot recall whether I used the Sika or Sonneborne products, but both companies make similar parking deck coating systems, consisting of a primer and topcoat. The coatings are moisture-curing urethanes, two-part, and elastomeric, meaning that they are quite flexible, and can be counted on to bridge cracks and not fracture when the slab underneath cracks and moves.
Application is by pouring, then notched trowel distribution to level, checking for 40 mils wet film thickness (it is heavy) and then backrolling with a large roller on a pole. The primer cures overnight and the finish can go on the next morning.
The topcoat (finish) has some gloss, and to deal with the slipperiness that can result from spills and drips on a garage floor, we wanted to do a textured surface. My distributor sold me granulated hard rubber, sort of looking like coarse black sand, and we seeded it into the wet coating before backrolling.
The rubber granules render the surface non-slip, giving it a look sort of like stucco, and a wonderful thing happened. The coating, which between primer and topcoat is quite thick, as compared to just a paint job, has some elastomeric feel to it without the rubber granules, but with the granules, it is positively springy!
Drop a spanner wrench on it and the tool lands with a soft sound, and does a little bounce.
http://www.niracote.com
Has a wide range of epoxies and cementatious coatings.
Do you meanhttp://www.miracote.com/
What would I do without you?
i seem to remember using a cementitious product called Meadowpatch (a trowelable cement filler/mortar) about 3 weeks ago that you could apparently coat with epoxies within 6 hours of having applied said filler. There is a website for said material.
for your floor finish Benjamin Moore has great floor products. Check their industrial products and make sure to check out the technical data sheets available at the bottom of each product description page.