OK… here’s the deal. I live in an older building and the landlord is having the exterior repainted. Crew of Hispanics scraping and sanding away… (you probably know where this is going). So I get to wondering…hmmmmmmmm, and pick up a lead test kit which says yes indeed lead on the paint chips, and on my windowsill. Frankly I’m not concerned about myself, from what I’ve read, but there are 2 families with toddlers.
What would you do?
Call landlord?
Call painting contractor?
Let other tenants with kids know?
Call EPA?
Shut up and take a nap?
Replies
You do know that your taxes go toward taking care of kids developmentally challenged by lead poisoning?
Do you like living there? Would you be evicted if you notify the landlord or word gets back you talked to the other tenants or painters?
Would you feel bad if the landlord had to pay extra for the mitigation process? Would it affect your rent? Your conscious?
Would ANY of the affected do anything if notified?
Paul,
As far as I know the current requirement (Federal...EPA) is for the contractor to notify the tenants that they are going to be doing the work and supply a brochure that warns the tenant of the potential dangers, especially to kids under 6 yrs. old.
There was a just a recent case with a landlord who owned multiple buildings and was fined heavily for failure to properly notify (here in CT. & Ma. I believe)
My only concern would be those kids, that should be your "guiding light" ...call EPA
that will also distance you from any possible repercussions from the landlord, even though it may be illegal to do so,on the landlord's part, but that may not stop him from starting the process or trying to evict you, look what he's doing now.
Geoff
"My only concern would be those kids, that should be your "guiding light" ...call EPA"Same thought except chain of authority means I tell the parents, and let them call the EPA
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If I remember correctly, you and your landlord aren't on the same page with other issues. For me that would mean calling the EPA.
Like any government boondoggle, it's necessary to get names and job descriptions from each person you speak with...at the beginning of each conversation.
I'd follow up with a letter as well. The implied threat to their job security adds just the right impetus.
be quiet, call osha. stay hiding, dont let nobody know you call, dont offer any info, let osha worry about it.
OSHA protects workers, not the children, who are the ones most at rusk.
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What does Hispanic have to do with it? I'd bet my bottom dollar there aren't any white people willing to do the work. You're lucky the job's getting done. And besides, if there is a violation, it's the contractors fault, not the "Hispanic" workers. It's people like you that can't mind their own business that cause all the problems.
Actually you're reading me all wrong but hey... suit yourself.
Referring to them being Hispanic was not a perjorative, but rather a symptom of an all too common game in construction. If you were familiar with the way the world seems to work these days you'd realize that the scenario I was alluding to here is that these guys speak (apparently) little or no English and are (almost undoubtedly) not being properly trained or supervised in how to handle lead paint.
As far as minding my own business, if you're comfortable with the premise of infants living in a building where finely ground up lead paint is blowing in the windows, have a nice day.
:)
PaulB
http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com
http://www.finecontracting.com
/As far as minding my own business, if you're comfortable with the premise of infants living in a building where finely ground up lead paint is blowing in the windows, have a nice day./it seems that, since you haven't done anything about this situation, you are equally comfortable. well, since you are at least contemplating action, perhaps not equally.but i don't think that the man who merely contemplates doing the right thing occupies much higher moral ground than one who doesn't.i think we had a brief exchange in pete's lunch buddy thread about the banality of evil. so i feel a little uncomfortable posting anything critical to you, 'cuz i think you're a good guy. but...to paraphrase nietzche- "even the bravest amongst us rarely has the courage for that which he already knows."what would i do? drop a dime. and i think this is one of those situations where acting anomalously <g> is... practical. not being an american, and therefore unfamiliar with the subtleties, i think bb's suggestion makes the most sense, and might give the workers a chance to...disinvolve...themselves. lol. and i know that one disagrees with piffin at one's peril, but it is naive to assume that parents always have their children's best interests at heart.
Well... I don't think I agree at all (unsurprisingly) with equating my position with that of the fella I was replying to.
A) I intend to do something (and have). I knocked on the door of the two families with kids and told them that I tested the paint residue and it is lead containing.
B) After a lot of thought, I'm going to notify the state EPA office and/or the city health dept lead hazards office.
Since this will likely result in some ummmmm... harsh response from my landlord, it was a course of action that required more than a little thought in terms of exactly what I would do, but the fact that I would do something was never in question.
Anyway... anyone got a spare bedroom? ;)PaulB
http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com
http://www.finecontracting.com
you can notifly ohsa on the internet, they have a whistleblower site, your name is never used. and then the landloard would never know. "I dont know what you talking about, oh you painting, never notice, gotta go football in the park later"
>>It's people like you that can't mind their own business that cause all the problems.
Uhh.... what 'problems' exactly were you referring to? Are you a painting contractor or a landlord who likes to skirt the rules to makes things cheaper and more profitable for yourself, and possibly harm others in the process?
Paul, I would absolutely call the EPA on this. It's not even a question.
In Michigan it's landlord tenant law to provide renters in advance of lease signing to provide lead disclosure brochures in units old enough to still have lead pipes/paint. I myself am an owner occupied landlord of a 100yr. old 3 unit, and have a 2yr. old. It's a tough call indeed.As an owner I've never out right tested for these reasons.
As a tradesmen it's easy to assume 100yrs. of paint 18 layers thick in places, that lead is present.
As a father, I don't scrap/sand around her and try to maintain other same practices.
Yeah, that's Federal law as far as I know. I strongly suspect it will hit the fan in a big way if I call EPA on Monday but frankly that's become my inclination at this point. I can't imagine the contractor doesn't know the law, so he's clearly decided not to comply. The landlord may not know it, but he should. The only ones that are blameless are the two kids in the building and while I don't think they're going to keel over from this, I sure wouldn't want kids of mine exposed to it...PaulB
http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com
http://www.finecontracting.com
No, actually I'm neither a painting contractor nor a land lord and I don't skirt rules. The problems I'm refering to are Hispanic workers getting harrassed by law enforcement for doing work that no white people will do, or do well. And "bottom dollar" is a figure of speech, quite common in both spoken and written English. I've had the good fortune to hire many Hispanic workers, and usually their work ethic and skill level demands a higher wage than many white "professionals". If the tenant believes there is an actual dangerous situation, he should call the EPA, leave the "Hispanics" alone, and stop worrying about repercussions if he is sincerely concerned about the toddlers.
Adriel,
The lead paint is the issue not Hispanic workers. The subliminal point may also be that the Hispanics are also being poisoned, something you don't appear to recognize.
Thanks for the response. I lived and worked in California for 17 years and have hired and/or worked with hundreds of Hispanic workers, so I am well experienced in that regard. I didn't think the OP was disparaging of Hispanic workers at all--he was simply noting that they had been assigned a dangerous task, as they often are, because they would not be expected to object. Obviously it's not their call whether lead is handled correctly, it's likely that they are not trained to do so, and they may not even know that it's an issue. I still don't know why you commented that "people like you who can't mind their own business cause problems". What exactly did the OP do that he should not have? Is it better that the workers continue working at risk to their health??
I would bet "bottom dollar" has alot to do with why hispanics are doing the job.
The dangers of lead to children is considerable and well documented. The children will be harmed to at least some extent by the exposure, and the damage is permanent. The contractor is breaking the law. You are in a position to save the children from harm.
This is a no brainer. You should:
1. Call the landlord and have him stop the work while the necessary tests are performed.
2. Notify the other tenents of your suspicions and ask them to call the landlord, too.
3. If work isn't stopped immediately, call your local building department.
The workers legal status isn't your problem, but the lead sure could be - particularly for the kids.
State OSHA will be happy to bring the hammer, google them or use state government yellow pages. Save some chips and take a picture or two. I'd let your neighbors know what you found so they can take their kids out of town for a day or two.
tell the tennnts , call the local BI and since you're in CT, the Lead Poisoning Prevention and Control Program phone number is 509-7299. They are part of the DOH and have loads of info on it.
It's nothing to screw around with, especially with kids. If CT is the same as RI, the contractor and the landlord can get screwed for not following the regulations.
BTW, the publications for workers are available in SPANISH, since the hack contractor didn't provide them, you might print one up and leave it where the workers can see it.
"BTW, the publications for workers are available in SPANISH, since the hack contractor didn't provide them, you might print one up and leave it where the workers can see it."Heck, if he wanted to have fun with this, he could dress in some official looking clothes, wear dark sunglsses, and act authoritarian, and call all the workers together, and hand out a supply of those print copies, then whip out a printed ( in English) Red placard to post on the wall, and wave them all goodbye...
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actually, that would be kind of funny.
Hay, I'm all for making a buck but taking advantage of someones situation or ignorance to do it is wrong. Karma will sort that out.
I mention OHSA because of the safety of the sanding. if you call ohsa they will be there within hours taking pictures. if you call the federal epa, they wont be there till somebody dies, call the state epa, couple months paperwork. If ohsa find problems, and they will. that starts the paperwork for epa but it stops the sanding that day.epa, state epa are feather weights against Osha.
Good point, and they might notice if the workers are legal or not as well.
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I agree but I'm in California and I didn't post the start message. I'm just a commentator on the subject.
I would definitely inform the families with Toddlers, and probably the landlord. It would be a waste of my time to tell the contractor, and it is the job of the families and the landlord to deal the the EPA and the contractor, respectively
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Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
2 issues here:
1) the landlord did not disclose the presence of lead paint to the tenants. Should be in your lease.
2) the workers are not properly trained in lead paint abatement. REading a handbook (if they can read), won't do squat if they don't have the proper equipment or know how to use it.
Both the landlord and the painting contractor are responsible. I'd report it to the State environmental agency, or possibly the housing department. You can print a brochure off the EPA website (http://www.epa.gov/lead) and put it in the families mailboxes anonymously.
Either nothing will happen, the right thing will happen, or worse, 2 families have to suddenly find a place to live and a crew of painters lose their jobs.
Here is a thought. Send an anomalous letter to the families with kids. Let them fight the fight. Include phone #s for EPA and OSHA or whatever.
BTW - OSHA protects the workers - who probably don't need to be breathing large amounts of lead paint dust. EPA for the kids and the environment. As I understand it, it are the kids who are are at the highest at risk.
As time goes on I find myself increasingly in positions where I don't get to say what I think - or what needs to be said. We all need to do the right thing, but I don't thing anyone *has* to be a martyr.
Send an anomalous letter...
You mean something that maybe looks like a letter, but no one can really be quite sure what it really is? :-)
(I think you meant "anonymous")
Thanks Don. Yea - I meant anonymous. Truth be told I'm spelling challenged. Once you pointed it out, I didn't even know what "anomalous" meant. I had to go look it up... Maybe the spell checker suggested it - I can't remember. :-) UR too funny!
Edited for spelling :-)
Edited 7/26/2009 2:38 pm ET by Matt
Good idea to save his position with the landlord and not get kicked out.But i'd probably just send an unsigned letter.
;)I might even include a suggestion to those families that they contact a lawyer to communicate to the landlord that he needs to pay the cost of alternate living arrangements until the health concerns for the children is sorted out.
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Call the EPA
I don't know if this has been discussed or not but you could talk to the contractor and tell him about a "paint shaver" with a vacuum attachment
Here is a video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48a3pULpoHk
You know... I tried one of those and have to say, wasn't impressed. Actually sent it back for a refund, which was annoying since they said that in effect I had rented it and charged me for the use :S
I think it's probably OKish for some applications but overall, eh...PaulB
http://www.makeabettertomorrow.com
http://www.finecontracting.com