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How come when people find out you trying to buy your own house, everybody become crooks. Prices go up, service goes down. They all think you do not know anything and try to stick the rod to you. Where has all the honest contractor gone to.
This time I got hit by the house designer. We had a agree price and agreement for changes to the prints. Call back prints ready. No changes done, he said the price was for the orignal print only and changes would be $500 more. If I did not buy the print I have a lien on the house. So now I got a set of prints I cannot use. Who going screw me next, finisher, framers, HVAC, maybe the plumber. Why can’t ya just do your job like the spec say and quit adding all your own thoughts. It is not really hard is on blue and white. If it not on the blueprint do not do it.
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Johnnie
You ever hear of the word "contract?"
You say you and your designer had an "agreement."
Well guess what; a CONTRACT is an AGREEMENT between 2 or more parties (in this case, between you and the house designer) that says that(in your case) you agree to pay the house designer so much $$$ in exchange for his designs. If you both mutually agreed that no additional costs would be paid by you for design changes, then that "language/stipulation" should have been written into your contractual agreement.
If you have a written contract with your house designer, and such stipulation was mentioned in said contract, and both you and the designer signed this contract agreeing to such terms; then don't be complaining to us...and don't pay the designer for the changes, and go seek advice from a lawyer.
If, on the other hand, you have no written agreement, it will be hard to prove your point based on an oral agreement; unless 3rd party witnesses were involved (still will be hard to prove what "you said/he said/they said.")
Bottom line....to keep yourself from getting screwed over, make sure you have a WRITTEN CONTRACT between you and your contractor (or subcontractors if you are acting as "general contractor").
Make sure you specify what work you want done, what materials you want used, what time frame work is to be completed in, and what payments will be made by you and a time schedule as to when such payments will be made.If you are not sure as to how to go about writing up a contract such as this, then seek out professional legal advice. The few bucks you spend on legal advice could save you 10 times the expense and hassles you may face later on.
In this day and age, a written contract is a "must have." It protects both you and the contractor from becoming a victim due to miscommunication (which apparently you and your designer appear to be having.)
Davo.
*I've never heard of being able to file a lein on a house unless you actually did work on the house. I think you've been fooled.And, make sure to get your head cleared before you find the next contractor. If you go into the relationship thinking that everybody's gonna screw you, you'll hate the work even if it's good, the contractor will hate being treated like a crook even if he's honest, and you will both end up very unhappy.I've met my share of prospective clients who believed that because I'm a contractor, I must be trouble. Fortunately, I spotted most of them before We agreed to anything and I ran away. I have worked for a couple of them that got in under my radar and the relationship was tense at best.Don't hire from the phone book, or from the newspaper. Find a contractor you can trust by asking your friends who they've been happy with, ask a lumberyard you trust for a recomendation, stop by a work site where you see good work being done and ask for business cards. You've got to do some work to get what you want.People will spend weeks, even months investigating cars, going to a dozen dealers, checking out specs on the internet, before buying one. But they'll sign a contract to build a 200K home without ever checking a builder's references...stupid.
*Ryan - The lien laws in NJ have recently (last two years) been broadened to include design professionals. Jeff
*Johnnie, you have already sent up two flags. #1, you are distrustful, and probably can't be trusted. #2, you wanted something designed, then wanted it changed. #3, You want the changes for free.Oh, that's three already and you haven't pulled a permit.I am not a crook but I certainly raise my prices for individual homeowners. Why should you get the same rate as a builder that will give me 100 more houses if I build competently?Why don't you go try to have a custom car built for the same price as a Ford Escort? Do you hear the sound of unrealistic expectations ringing in the air?I give discounts to builders that know what they are doing. They need to be able to get the site prepared properly, on time, with all the materials there. If they need to ask me what I need, they probably don't qualify for my discount.You probably don't have any clue to what you are doing. I will frame your house for you. Here is the price. I will answer all your questions (ten minute time limit) for $100,000 paid up front. Then, when all materials and jobsite conditions are met, I'll frame it for $10.00 per foot. If you walk onto the lot, that will be $1000.00 extra. If you talk, $1000.00 more. If you don't leave within 15 seconds, the contract is cancelled and you owe in full.These are my terms. If you hire me, I won't screw you and you will have a very nice house. I'll even put curtain blocks in, if they are clearly indicated on the plans. Oh, yeah, final payment is due upon rough inspection.Bring that 100k in cash, small bills.blue
*Johnnie,Your message is a bit ambiguous as to the problem with the designer, maybe you've got a legitimate gripe.In either case, you're coming across a bit, er, strong, but maybe you're still in the heat of feeling you got screwed and will cool off.You asked >Most contractors and subs are pretty knowledgeable about their areas of specialization, usually having more knowledge and always having more experience than any designer or architect with details and in actually "doing it." Every contractor has run across plans that were (i) unbuildable in all details, (ii) had stupid details, or (iii) left out vital or useful information or details. It is also not uncommon for plans to be code deficient in some respects.Most people want to (i) take pride in their work and (ii) share the value of their knowledge and experience. Those same people will generally resent someone who dismisses the value of those qualities they have to share.I find myself wondering why you've decided to GC the home yourself.FWIW, although I believe I have the knowledge to GC my own home, I wouldn't do it for several reasons.The savings wouldn't be as large as the "be your own GC" books would have you believe; I don't have the contacts and existing relationships with subs; the practical reality is that I would be low priority for the subs I hired, which, to me is completely understandable; and finally, the whole thing would be too personal.Bob
*You are exactly right Bob. In bad times, when work is scarce, you probably can get a decent deal. But if things are hopping, we really don't have time to train a new GC. Besides, who's paying us to train him?I have done some "side work" for fellow tradesmen. I charged the same, plus an annoyande fee that I knew would be earned due to the fellows inexperience at GCing. It turned out to be pretty decent, both ways, but there were several incidents- minor ones. Vagueness and interpretations caused them. I re-did some work, knowing that I had already priced for it. I later went back and did a little more. It was win, win but I certainly wouldn't expect the same co-operation from an engineer that hasn't ever erected a dollhouse.blue
*Maybe some of your problem is communication. It seems to me you don't even have a basic grasp on the english language to start with.....hmmmmmm Keith C
*Ouch Keith! Now behave!blue
*I agree. When someone first meets me, (no prior experience in dealing with me at all...), and immediately starts with an attitude that I must be a crook, I can't help but to begin to wonder how much of a crook they are, and how much I am going to get screwed if I agree to deal with them... However, there is probably two very different ways to view this particular situation.It is possible that the guy has a problem with the language that is no fault of his own. Maybe english isn't his first language. Or maybe he just has a learning disability. The only way that I can see that his problem with the language has anything to do with it, is that it could possibly mean a problem with contracts and him not exactly understanding the contract. If that were the case, and I were in his shoes, I do think there are people who would take advantage of me. After a few experiences of that sort, I too, may begin to think that everyone is a crook...Either way, it is not exactly charitable to make an example of his problem. Unless, of course, you meant to follow up with some advice about how he could, knowing his problem, deal with contracts anyway, and not get screwed every time someone recognizes his problem.
*Sorry Luka, never been accused of being charitable. Before I can start to serve up a possible solution, I feel it necessary to see the problem. From the very limited description, the one outstanding piece of evidence that a I notice is a basic lack of fluence in written english. The other problem he/she has is a lack of communication with the designer.(coincidence, I THINK NOT) Also I must point out, who does changes for free in design work? Changes cost money, nobody does work they know is wrong/bad/not wanted if they know they won't get paid for it. I'm rude and short tempered with people who make accusations of contractors being crooks. For that I will not apologize. But for the record, I really did tone down my language for the original post. My original thought was to say "go home you freakin' foreigner" or something along those general lines. Keith C
*O.k. My written language is not the best. I am a product of public school. I,myself do not see the mistakes. So if you got the time, rewrite so I can see my mistakes.As far as the topic, it has been five days and I am still upset over the house design.
*Well, what a co-inkydink, I am a product of the public schools as well.
*I think most of us here are the products of public schools. Having spent 20 years in education and almost that many in construction, my experience is that most of the folks who, as adults, think the world owes them, are the same folks who expected to get pushed through school with passing grades without having to learn anything.
*Johnnie, these men have been miraculously restrained in their criticisms of your post and its tone--i am severely impressed at how much good advice you got. Things suck right now, but know that the steeper the learning curve, the quicker you'll find out what you need to know to both communicate more precisely and to protect yourself from unscrupulous types in ALL walks of life. Everyone gets burned at some point; the trick to not repeating the error is not to blame the other guy for its occcurrence; that goes double for the "product of public school" excuse. Keith: the next time you make mention of someone's grasp of the English language, you might want to use the "shift" key.
*Those shift keys make my eyes move all over the place...
*That's REM mode...
*shift keys??????? i thinked them fer when ya'll just wanted ta scream. Luka, after rereading my post, it may have appeared that I was directing my hostility at you ....I was not. Splinter.......I've seen your BS around here........so have others.
*Off the subject, but related to the public school thread. Yesterday we got one under roof and dry about noon. Mud everywhere, been raining for 3 days. I used the bobcat to scrape mud off the top in front of the house(ranch, 2400 sq /ft, 6/12's, 44sq) Shingle truck arrives, guys jump out and say we will get stuck, I'll put them on the ground and the roofer can take them up(very pissy attitude, no hello, skinheads, tattoos,goatees). Bullshit I yelled from the peak, we have 4 trucks here, a bobact and a backhoe. I cleaned the mud off, pull the 30' off the drive and deliver the shingles.Truck never sank a inch. Now, I would never want to deliver shingles for a living, and I can understand the attitude for having to do it. The youngest man on the my crew (who had to hump 140 sheets of plywood around this roof) looks at the one on the roof and said "to many bong hits in school huh? the two brain cells you have left are fighting for control, and this is the life you have, well tough shit. Everyone told you to stay in school and study, and you figured screw em, let's get high. Welcome to the rest of your life" I figured there was going to be bodies flying off the roof. Kid got on the laddervator, went down and got in the truck. I was glad to see the young one do it. So the public school issue....we all have choices, that is what life is about.
*Hi everyone...my name is, ahh, Mongo...and I am, ahhh, a product of, ahhh, public schools...Whew...feels good to get that out.Johnnie, in a sense you are correct regarding most everyone in construction being a criminal...when I was locked up in a juvenile detention facility as a youngster, the high point of my public education there was based upon how to hot wire cars.When da man let me out, I soon realized the there was little money, but lots of trouble, in jacking cars. Dark skies obliterated what could have been a clear horizon and soon once again I was in trouble.It was my next stint, in the Big House, where I learned my true calling. My husband...or was he my wife...(don't remember if it was an "odd" or "even" numbered day and whose turn it was)...doesn't really matter...any how, my partner taught me that the real money was in construction. Fleecing the customers. What a deal.So, in the clink I got hooked up (literally and fuguratively) with the right boys and they filled me (no pun intended) in on in's and out's (no pun intended) of the construction trades. Whenever I hear a song by the Village People, ah...the memories...never mind.Anyhow's, the thing is that I got out and turned my life around, even in spite of my public educashun. I don't look at being a crook in the trades, or what I do now, as "stealing." I like to think that I'm simply "appropriating other people's dreams."If only I'd gone to a private school...
*Gee willikers, Keith! I was just trying to help with those communication skills of which you are such a proponent. I mean, someone could mistake you for a furr-uh-ner, eh?
*dear ms. browne...sorry for your problems with the designer.. take it as a life lesson..it's easier to have the discussion BEFORE you give him / her the deposit on the design...and BEFORE you get into Specs & Plans with your subs.. it's cheaper to make the changes on your plans than to have to deal with them in wood and iron.... i suggest you go back to your designer and have them make the changes you need ..now.. not later..if the design agreement was silent about changes.. now you know..if it was spelled out.. then abide by the written agreementbuilding a house ain't easy.. it only appears that way if you haven't done it...b but hey, whadda i no ?
*Err johnnie, would you mind heading over to the "Is anybody rich thread? You could do a lot for my debate about public schools issue!blue
*I was there in a public school too Keith. Only one problem: I was too smart to learn the stuff they wanted to teach me.And now I play in mud too!blue
*Johnnie:Carefully, read the first sentence of your original post.Also: Most subs aren't trying to screw you. If they have been around for more than 2 months, they know that in working for a private home owner, there will be some bumps in the process, so they have to raise their price a bit to cover themselves. They are just trying to make a living, and I'll bet that more often than not, aren't exactly living in the lap of luxury.As far as being upset about the house design, you have a right to be upset - at yourself - for not having a full understanding of the charges involved before agreeing to use the designer. That is, unless the designer purposefully deceived you. From my experience, changes are always extra. As Mike says, pay the extra $500 and get a set of plans that are as accurate as possible.Good luck on your project, and try to display a positive attitude.
*Mongo,I thought we had put our story to rest. Please let it go.
*Well, read all the post. Still confused over the matter. My conclusion is that:1) All the contractors in this town are crooks.2) everybody must make a living even use car saleman and they on one step higher than house designer.3) public school system here sucks.4) cannot figure out the shift key deal.5) most people here do not know english either.6) mongo is gay
*7) There should have been a lifeguard on duty in your gene pool OR 8) Crack, it can sure ruin a brain.
*tres gay !
*Ms. ?
*johnnie is the diminutive... don't u think the gender is fem. ?
*I think the guy/gal is a phoney.
*well... i remember someone calling themselves the real john swenson...go figger
*Johnny, Johnnie, whatever: all diminutives. Diminutive does not mean fem., just informal and familiar, like Mikee--my male (neutered) dog's name, by the way. Just a wild guess based on a few years of linguistics, but i think our man here is used to saying things like "stick the rod to you", which is way too graphic for a woman. Check out his other posts for more language. Also, it is a rare woman who dares tread in this forum without her hat in hand unless she were perfectly comfortable with her skills, in which case she wouldn't complain as Johnnie has, but be out there installing a new starter cord in her contractor.Johnnie, we hardly knew ye...
*This group is werid. I had a complaint about the house designer company that screwed me. I had questioned wheather this would continue with subs. Some of you have main very important points dealing with contracts. I always believe a mans word was law so that why I didn't need a contract. I gave him a design on an old copy of prints, draw these up like I marked them, I pay you this amount. Only thing I get is the orignal prints with no markups. So I complain here. Yes Complain.Instead of advice or wisdom. Marjority here talk about my bad grammer, Mr or Ms., Touchy moments with the same sex. and public schools. This is not a phoney deal. I really need to no how to handle the con artist in this town.I think Mike Smith is the only one that relize that.I know my English is not perfect but MT TRADE SKILL is. I can't learn perfect english overnight just to keep ya here happy. And it is MR Johnnie Browne, where the Ms come from I do not know.
*Isn't this the same guy that worked for the testing lab and changed all the reports on concrete tests because the contractors were crooks?
*Yup, Karma seems to be in good working order...
*uh.. sorry johnnie..mea culpa...if you check out the business section.. you'll find that we are constantly reminding each other to GET IT IN WRITING...where do you live ? what part of the country do you want ot build in.. do you live near me... er luka ?or somewhere in ohio ?
*Watch it Mike. This guy is definitely not an Ohioan. I think he's probably from back East. Yeah, one of those little states.John
* Sylvia Porter "Bitter legal battle with unscrupulous builder" 9/20/00 4:36amJohnnie, this is the URL for a related discussion. It may further illuminate the necessity of putting agreeements in writing. After getting burned a couple times like you have, i wouldn't agree to meet my mother for lunch unless there were a notary present. Good luck.And for heaven's sake, don't be taken in by Mike Wolf-in-Sheep's-Clothing Smith! He wants the job so's he and his buddy Luka can fleece ya!
*Like they say, a fool and his money.... Some people are crooks. To call a whole group of people jerks because of one jerk, well that's bigotry. And a good way to get every good contractor to avoid you ... so the only ones you'll get are what you expect.Now, Mongo, let's not forget that Village People wrote a fine military recruiting song! Sweet irony.
*Johnnie, a man's word is law, as long as it's in writing. repeat after me: The words must be written. The words must be written. The words must be written.What's the other side of the story? Remember, the words must be written?this is actually one of the funniest threads that has come along in a long time. We're not laughing with you, were laughing at you.Or is that: We're not laughing at you, we're laughing with you.Repeat: The words must be written, the words must be written!bluePs, Remember, you came in here and called all contrators crooks. We are all contractors. Get the picture?
*I must agree with JRS, Definitely a phony. Nevertheless, one of the funniest threads I also have read in a long time! I even had to call the wife in to read some of them! Too good not to share!
*chuckling...near the stream for sure!ajMongo...WTF boy!?
*Mr. and Mrs. and Ms. finehomebuilder,HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH...HA HA HA!!!Johneeee....buy an existing home, so the REALTOR can screw you too!Really. trust no one, get it in writing, get it notarized, document everything, take pictures of everything...WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MONEY HERE!There's a song, isn't there?...Money money money money....MONEY!We're all contractors here, to some degree.You need an attorney.fineambulancechasers.com?The Machine
*Cal, (can I still call you "Cal"?)Nevah!
*AD, My favorite cyber-pal...hope all is well with you and yours.
*Sorry aj...Chess havin sum fun...
*I also figured it was a goof on us, but that never stops me from trying to get off track and going for the laugh. The only person that speaks like he writes was one of my wifes old Italian uncles......now there was a crook.
*I biggest problem with the house designer was that he lied and he knew he was lying when he was talking during the agreement procedures. He wanted to get in the door and then change order himself into some extra money. yes, I am the testing lab technician that tried to explain the real world to the concrete guy.no I do not live in ohio, I left that state in 81 and really hope never to be there again.I read most of the post here and you wonder why people do not trust contractor, I would relly hate to hire any of these due to the attitude of your work ethics. I know my companies is not cghrome plated but if the contractor started during their work right, their could but me out of business. and I would be so happy. It really bad when everything must be in writing due to men without honor
*Sometimes you just crack me up. Gonna make it to the next fest? You're another one I'd like to meet. It was a blast. You don't pitch horseshoes by chance?Let the good times roll....
*Well then buddy, us honorable and word is our bond Ohio contractors are mighty happy to have you wherever the hell you are. We owe you a favor.
*Well scooter my daisy heads there cellular, diddley day to. I was gonna get some bitch'n cghrome plating on the last house I buy, but I some crooked contractor rodded me and now money gone ans contractor also me thinks.Me I relly wanted that cghrome . Honor, thy mother, else gett it in Blue and white yes?
*He won't bend over to pick them up-it's something he learned in the Big House.John
*ROFLMCghromePlatedAO
*And that "close" counts...
*youse guys got no sensa yuma.......have mercy !
*I was sorry that I wasn't able to make it to Pete's. I was good for the initial dates, but when the weekend moved, the move put it right into the middle of an already planned family vacation.I've only been around the "real" shoes...I used to shoe horses as a kid...from what I've heard, youz guyz need careful watching when tossing metal.
*lets face it boys....i everybody a crook...near the strem,aj
*John, been out for so long, I forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder.
*Cool, I shined shoes when I was little. Bet you're experience makes you a natural. Give it a try.
*ha ha...everybody a crook...good stuff.him a crook. She a crook. Them a crook. Maybe everybody just a disagreeable jerk who's always looking for a fight. What say missa jonnie? who a crook?
*I think the boy has a legitimate gripe.
*Next it'll be Yoko...
*Oh, no!
*Jonnie, You've posted 3 or 4 times here and you are still vaugue as to thishouse plan thing.>I gave him a design on an old copy of prints, draw these up like I >marked them, I pay you this amount. Only thing I get is the orignal >prints with no markups. my questions and concerns are:1. Who owns the copyrights to the "old copy of prints" , hope you aren't a crook yourself and stole someone elses work, marking up changes to conceal the work.2. Maybe your "markups" couldn't be done because they wouldn't work.When I design houses for clients , I encourage a lot of feedback from them, but a lot of their ideas have problems and after I discuss these items with them , they understand , and we come to another resolution. I don't understand what your trouble was with the designerand somehow I don't feel we'll ever get an accurate understanding fromyou on what actually transpired with the designer.
*Can't fill my own teeth, can't sew up chain saw cuts with one hand, can't perform own heart surgery. Everything else has enough info on web or in library to do it yourself if it is so hard to avoid being "took"
*i Luka, after rereading my post, it may have appeared that I was directing my hostility at you ....I was not.Not to worry, no offence taken.b : )
*Art B. .......what are you trying to say? I think the directions for a vasectomy I got on the web are very good and I really think I can do it and save the $500.00 that that crook doctor wants to charge. That's alot of money for a 30 minute deal. I got my stanley knife(it's cghrome plated) with a brand new blade, a couple of bandaids and half a bottle of tequila. Drink first to numb and have at it.....bad idea?
*I wish to apologize and retract my statement " everybody a crook".For any hard feeling, I am sorry. I wish to reword my orignal statement into saying " I feel the people I am dealing with in the bay area are trying to take advantage of me due to my inexperience dealing with the trade community. I truely believe some are deliberately trying to make additions money on this lack of experience with GC. So I apologize for any misunderstanding.
*well johnnie.. good luck to you......i would definetly go to the business section of this board and read some of the threads about relationships with subs and designers..there is a lot of good discussion there
*An excellent idea from Mike and best of luck john boy.
*John,Bravo. After a statement of that sort, I almost wish someone had left out some really good advice so they could give it to you now. Unfortunately, I don't think that is the case. The best advice is to go to the business section and read a bit about how others have learned to deal with the business end of building. Mike already said that. (Twice now. LOL)Maybe before you deal with the next person in line, you should do a lot of research. Read in the business section here, go to the library and get reference books that outline the duties of the next person you deal with. There are even books available that will outline the things you need to do, and the things you should expect when dealing with each step of building your own house. As someone else here has already pointed out, some of those books make it seem mighty easy, and like you're going to save a ton of money, neither of which is true, so maybe look at a few of those books, not just one.And last... it's been said, and it may be sad, but it's truly needed.... get it in writing from now on.I wish you the best of luck for the remainder of your project.b : )
*Johnnie be good!near the stream,aj
*Mr. Johnnie Browne: My father was a builder, so I was introduced to the work at an early age. In high school I completed three years of architecture. In college I took every management and business law course offered. You could say I do not miss much. Most of the people in the trades are there because they enjoy the work. Those that take advantage are a minority. Your designer charging $500 for a change in plans is not unreasonable. I am currently designing a two story lakefront home. When changes are made it means moving walls, supporting beams, headers for doors and windows, and consideration for how light and foot traffic will flow into the rooms. I also look at how it will affect the other trades such as plumbers and carpet installers. Let us say a customer selects a carpet that is only sold in twelve foot widths yet wants a fourteen foot wide room. Satisfying that extra two feet may be costly and the customer needs to consider this. It is also better to size a house around nearly full sheets of plywood as it adds little extra expense to the home. A builder is going to take your blueprints and come up with an estimate. The good ones can do this in their head. They use certain people on every job and so understand their peculiarities. Not everybody you meet is going to be friendly. But then not every customer is friendly. You also need to understand that estimates are just that. It is not uncommon to find the bill ten or fifteen percent higher than quoted. A good contractor will have this explained in the documents you sign. I encourage you to discuss things with a real estate lawyer. Their fees are not expensive. Building a house is going to be the most strenuous thing you have ever done. Once construction gets going do not make changes. Builders do not like them. It puts them behind schedule as well as having to redo something. Moving a wall may cost $500 or $2000. What you do not see is that it may affect heating ducts, plumbing vents, support of the roof above, etc. The builder knows these things and knowledge is worth money. Delays are common. A good builder usually has several jobs going at once. Those men depend on the builder for 40 hours or more of work weekly. The builder and his or her crew may disappear for days for good reasons, like installing the roof on a home that had shingles backordered for weeks. Unless you have patience you are not going to enjoy the building experience. Good luck.
*Johnnie: In response to your rephrased statement: You are absolutely right. Subs are trying to make extra money because you are not an experienced GC. And they are praying that they've charged enough to not lose their shirts in a project that will likely go bad because of an inexperienced manager.They know that they will be delayed because other trades won't be scheduled appropriately, they know they will be delayed because there will be some problems with the materials. They know that the design will require more work on their part than designs put together by experienced GC's. They know that the last trade in did their work in some way to make the next trades work more difficult because an experienced GC wasn't there to solve the problem before it came up. They know that when extra charges come up because of additional or unforseen work, you won't want to pay because you didn't know that your actions were going to cause additonal work. They know that you are unfamiliar with standard building practice and will nit pick every unimportant detail making yourself a major pain in the @$$.Maybe you can make this work Other's have. I wish you the best of luck. But I'd be charging you alot more than my regular rate because I would know the chances are good that this project would go bad. You'd pay me for work up front so that your project gone bad wouldn't come out of my grocery money.
*Appology accepted, but my offer remains the same, plus 10% (inflation).blue
*i You also need to understand that estimates are just that. It is not uncommon to find the bill ten or fifteen percent higher than quoted.I've noticed that, and frankly, would rather see it reversed--coming in on/under bid. Making a relatively accurate bid, and having a clause about how add-ons will up the price seems to me the best way to go. This is the way I ran my wordsmith business, and sometimes (not frequently), I could come in w/less than what I bid. Part of the problem is that many folks really don't know how to accurately estimate, and tend to come in low thinking that the low bid will get the job. That's probably true in some cases, but I never purchase services based solely on cost--I also consider things such as professionalism (contract appears thought-out) and common courtesy (not tossing butts into my garden), etc.When I was first starting my business, a self-employed architect friend said that estimating was his biggest hurdle--he said he added 33% to what he thought it would take, and that usually came out right on target. Clearly, he had learned the hard way, but it was indicative that he didn't have good estimating skills or hadn't included a Change Order clause.Even in my current business, the engineers come in after the document is ready (on the due date) and say "Well, we had to change the code" but still expect to get the revised doc that day. Go figure.
*
How come when people find out you trying to buy your own house, everybody become crooks. Prices go up, service goes down. They all think you do not know anything and try to stick the rod to you. Where has all the honest contractor gone to.
This time I got hit by the house designer. We had a agree price and agreement for changes to the prints. Call back prints ready. No changes done, he said the price was for the orignal print only and changes would be $500 more. If I did not buy the print I have a lien on the house. So now I got a set of prints I cannot use. Who going screw me next, finisher, framers, HVAC, maybe the plumber. Why can't ya just do your job like the spec say and quit adding all your own thoughts. It is not really hard is on blue and white. If it not on the blueprint do not do it.