*
Tried using expanding foam to seal around some replacement windows for the first time yesterday.
Installed the windows, sprayed the foam lightly into the crack between windw and old window jamb. The foam expanded of course, a couple of spots expanded enough to come out about half an inch more than I had hoped.
No problem, I cut these flush and started wrapping everything with aluminum.
Went to get a soda, came back and the foam had continued expanding after I left, and had squirted out through the cracks in the aluminum.
I had to wipe, cut, rub with acetone for an hour before I had this mess clean enough to be able to caulk the aluminum wrap.
Went back there this morning to check the windows and make sure everythign was okay. Two more small spots of foam blow out.
Just a warning, this stuff keeps going and going, and going.
Replies
*
Next time don't use the triple expanding stuff.
LOL
*For small spaces try DAPtex Insulating Foam Sealant,it's a latex foam. It doesn't expand with an excessive volume or force and stays soft after it dries. It reminds me of shaving cream. Can be a bit pricy if you need a lot of it though.
*I don't think you're supposed to use ANY expanding foam around vinal windows. I sure don't.
*To add to my earlier post.I haven't personally used the DAP sealant on vinal windowsDefinitly wouldn't use it to secure something in place.
*You're right, the manufacturer says not to but since it's become standard practice here, I decided to do it.The reason not to is that it can warp the tracks.And I did use the minimal expanding stuff. It wasn't the volume that suprised me, it was how long it kept growing. Must have continued to expand for hours. Maybe that's because it was so cold yesterday.
*Yup, cold would do it. Cold slows down most chemical reactions. Does it say anything about temperature in the instructions?-- J.S.
*Foaming windows and doors with a low expansion foam like Enerfoam is SOP in this part of Canada. How else are you going to insulate them and keep out drafts? Fibrrrglass? Hah! And anyway, if you're building new and you foam in your windows, you've just improved your chances of seeing those windows tomorrow. Windows in new construction are getting to be a pretty popular target for thieves. Furnaces, too. Ron
*b WBA At Your Service Two or three years ago, we had to replace 13 steel frame 4' X 6' windows with Certainteed Devon vinyl replacements. The light commercial building had 10" block walls with a brick veneer with the windows installed directly in the masonry opening. Guess where the fastener holes ended up - Yep, right in the airball between brick and block. We ended up getting the windows set with Tapcons and then filling the entire cavity with Enerfoam. We had no problems of any kind, no pushing, bowing, or bubbling of foam, and this was done mid-winter. In this day and age of flimsy Andersen nailing flanges that fall off when you give them a mean stare, it would take a truck and a chain to remove one of these windows. I would do it again, no question. We used 3 or 4 quart cans of foam.
*I tried the foam for the first and last time this past summer. I too fell for the "low expansion" label! Vinyl replacement window too! Also went thru about a truck load of towels and thinner to clean it up. A 45 min. job turned into over three hours of hell. What a f#ching mess! The can said expands to less than half in size....played it safe and filled only about a quarter of the space........and you are right.....it's the gift that keeps on giving! This shit just kept buldging out and growing. The only saving grace.....I used high quality windows, so they only bowed in a little. After cutting, digging and gouging this mess out, the window worked fine.....but still not as perfect as when first installed. I'm guessing any less quality of a window and I'd have bought myself an extra window! I hate this foam.....and will never use it on anything that slightly matters! Back to just squirting holes in blocks! I feel yer pain! Jeff.........low expansion my ass!......god I hate that shit.......
*Jeff, do you rememebr what brand that was? I'd sure like to know what not to buy.Ron
*Ditto what Mike said. I've had pretty good luck with the latex stuff. I hate that yellow kind.
*I use it all the time, and have never had a problem, I don't use the stuff that you buy at the hardware store though. I buy it in quart cans, and have never had it "blow " anything out. The stuff we use does all it's expanding before it sets, so it expands to the spot of least resistance. But it does expand, so you can't expect to fill a crack full and it not come out somewhere. You have to leave room for the expansion.
*Ron: I'm using your Enerfoam on my ICF house to glue the blocks together and then to fill cracks. The last 3 weeks here in North Georgia, it has been bitter cold - like in the low teens at night. Used the foam in near freezing temps a few days ago, and like someone said - it just keeps giving and giving and giving. couldn't get over the expansion. I already had one gun freeze up from not being cleaned last summer. Boy, I'll keep that sucker clean, now. Now for the question - I am installing Pella windows, and plan to foam the voids between the window and rough-in 2X. A coupla them are 5 ft high and wide. Any danger from over expansion? Any recommendations on how to do it, other than don't fill the entire void? I have noticed that it seems to complete its expansion before hardening.Thanks
*Foaming windows everyday here. Purfil brand- never a problem. No mess if you are careful. Leave that "great stuff" alone.
*Dan, I was told in an ICF training course that letting the enerfoam gas off for a couple of seconds before sticking things together with it would minimize the expansion. No need to pay the big bucks for the non-expanding foam adhesive. Does that work for you? That must be a Pageris gun. A fine tool until it needs to be fixed/traded. It seems to me that leaving that nozzle open for ten minutes screws them up and there goes $100 or so. I think there is definitely some risk of bowing the windows, especially windows that high. The windows I prefer get fastened sideways into the framing so it's seldom a problem for me. It might be a problem with a Pella. It's been 6 or 7 years since I've touched a Pella and things have probably changed but their old mounting fins couldn't resist inward pressure. I have no suggestions except for side fastening. Good luck. If you do make a mess with the foam, though, leave it till it hardens to try to clean it up. It's easier. What kind of block are you using? Are you going to post a pic for us? Ron
*Ron: Thanks for the answer. Yes, it's a Pageris. I sent them my old one and rec'd a repaired one for $49. Not, bad, considering the condition of the one I sent in. It was a mess. I prefer the Enerfoam for gluing the blocks together. The tolerances on the tongue & groove is such that it takes the low expansion stuff quite nicely. But - you do have to develop the touch for how much foam to apply. I used Poly Steel blocks. They have their plusses and minuses. Have to be real careful when pouring, or you get scads of voids. Go read the current ICF thread for some of the comments on them. Ian has some choice comments, and he & I have traded some comments off line.As a side bar, I have three Peachtree fixed windows in our house. They are made from 3/4 inch wood. Sort of reminds me of some things Russian - big and clunky. At least when I finish the inside, the thickness won't show. My Pellas are 1/2 inch, no finger joints. Have had some damage to them - a roofer opened a second storey window and promptly stepped on the sill and separated it from the sides.My carpenter, whose idea of modern is a 2X4 and a nail gun, rails against shimming the sides and foam. says it will distort the frames. Pella tells you to shim the sides, but is silent about foam. I hate to have a tight wall, nearly impervious to air, and a stupid void stuffed w/ fiberglass around the window frames. I've gotten a lot of good advice from the local Pella people, so I'm going to talk to them about that when I get a chance.
*Hi Don,I've seen that thread. I look for anything about ICF. I'm a fan and would really like to edge myself out of renovating and into new ICF houses. We've got a couple of good prospects this year. Wish me luck.I've been corresponding with Ian a bit, too. He knows more about this than anyone I've ever run into and can explain things clearly and quickly. I've been trying to get some info on Amvic blocks on his advice. Have you been glueing every block and every course? With the systems I've used, gluing the starter course down is common (but not really necessary - it won't float) and some foam around window and door bucks is common. We use a lot of fibreglass packing tape, too. Roofers - around here I like to keep them chained in the yard when they're not in use.Ron
*I think it was Dap. It was what ever brand they had near the counter at the Busy Beaver hardware store down the stieet from the job. Just about quarter to 8 in the morning, I remember I need a few more shims on the way there. Stop in and grab what I need. See the stuff......remember the ads for "Low Expansion"......Impulse Buy!.....and I paid for it all day! A quick and easy day with half decent money shot to hell! Man.....I still remember the headache driving home! The worst of it was....these are my favorite customers! I was soooo worried I screwed up their window and pissed them off! Good thing they didn't stick around! Had it all working fine by days end......then just had to have a clever way of explaining why I was there till 4:30.....but only charging for a half day's work. "Well, I had to sit and wait for the "caulking" to set up....no sense you paying for that!"....Jeff
*Lonecat hit it! Great Stuff....that's the culprit! Jeff
*I too used to curse the expanding stuff untill a hilti rep talked me into a foam gun made by them, you just screw on cans of application specific foam and go, foam stops as soon as you let off the trigger, almost no clean up and they make low expanding foam for around windows and doors that sets fully in about 10min. A starter kit goes for about $200, this includes the gun, case, a can of cleaner and about 5 cans of foam. you would be amazed by how far one of those cans will go, check it out, i love them
*The dap latex stuff would not have given you the trouble. Seriously. But even the low expanding Great Stuff will give you these troubles every time. I use a lot of the great stuff, but where I use it, the only thing critical is that the whole cavity be filled when I am finished. And I can let it finish curing and then cut off the excess. I wouldn't use even the low expanding great stuff behind a window or door frame.
*One trick with any of the foams...especially the Great Stuff...Only shoot a bead along the deep interior to create an air seal...There is no need to fill the space...Let it expand and harden for days if cold...Then fiberglass insulate the rest of the space if you want to. Also, check the windows for good movement before spending the time to case.near the stream using both latex and regular foam,aj
*Ron: I used Poly Steel ICF's. Glued every course. Also the verticals. Especially cxareful to glue first course to footer. Leaks worried me more than floating. I used 2X10 bucks. think I'd use their Vinyl bucks if I did it again. Lumber really can change shape over time. Those walls were unbelievably strong. As a side bar. I'm in the process of grouting voids, courtesy of some crappy concrete, and can't pour if the temp drops below 40 in the 12 hrs after a pour - it kills the grout. Stuck a thermometer into the wall t'other day, after temps hadn't broached 40 for weeks. Internal temp was 40. Made my own weather - got a small Herman Nelson (Bullet heater to you lifetime civilians), sucked its output through an old Jen Aire blower and routed the hot air into a big box surrounding the openings in the wall where i was going to pour. Two hrs heated the guts up to over 100. Poured, and the grout cured nicely. Production rate isn't very high, but spring ids a long time away!Don
*I use expanding foam for all my windows and doors even vinyl. First use a" on expanding typ" of foam. I use Hilt or Ever-foam most contractor supply house carry some. These foams still expand but not as much after they are applied. Install a small bead to the far out side edge, only enough to seal the gap, don't try to fill the hole space around the window. Use fiberglass to finish the job. To much and the window may not operate properly.
*
Tried using expanding foam to seal around some replacement windows for the first time yesterday.
Installed the windows, sprayed the foam lightly into the crack between windw and old window jamb. The foam expanded of course, a couple of spots expanded enough to come out about half an inch more than I had hoped.
No problem, I cut these flush and started wrapping everything with aluminum.
Went to get a soda, came back and the foam had continued expanding after I left, and had squirted out through the cracks in the aluminum.
I had to wipe, cut, rub with acetone for an hour before I had this mess clean enough to be able to caulk the aluminum wrap.
Went back there this morning to check the windows and make sure everythign was okay. Two more small spots of foam blow out.
Just a warning, this stuff keeps going and going, and going.