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Rich,
I thought the purpose of these messages was to help solve problems not aggravate those who are already aggravated by the fact that work that they paid good money for has to be re-done in two years. I can only guess you must be from an area of the country where there is not a lot of new building taking place, hence some trace of quality still exists. Huntsville, AL has and continues to grow by leaps and bounds every year. Finding good craftsman who are willing to stand by their work is nearly impossible. Finding a builder who is willing to stand up to a subcontractor and require that he do good work is something that doesn’t happen. Because of this, my husband and I have ALWAYS had to do everything ourselves. When we built the new house, however, children became our priority and we left the work to the so-called experts HENCE the problem my husband reported.
With that — if you have some advice, let’s hear it. Otherwise, keep your smart comments to yourself!
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Sorry for being a little fiery, but this has been a costly and frustrating learning experience. Who in their right mind wants to dig out miles of cracked caulk on a two year old house?
I guess the paint is not so much the problem as the caulk. This is an all brick home, so all we are talking about is the windows and trim. Every bit of caulk is cracked, separated, missing,etc. We attribute this to two things -- cheap caulk and the drying/shrinking of the new wood. Since all the caulk has to be scraped out and re-done, re-painting everything as opposed to just the new caulk area makes sense. Much of the trim was in place and painted prior to the brick work being completed, and the yard was dirt for a year -- hence the paint is dirty. The paint in some spots is thin. The paint quality on the eves and overhangs is generally good. The windows need paint because they only ever had the factory primer and a thin single coat. With the pressure washing to clean for caulk it just makes sense to re-paint.
Several painters who have quoted the job have recommended re-painting using an oil-based primer and latex top coat. They are stating that the latex products are of a higher quality and durability than the oil based products. The manufacturers of the products (we contacted Benjamin Moore and Sherwin Williams) state that the quality and durability is the same and which to use is a matter of personal preference. In our case it is the difference of the labor to re-prime the whole house to make the swap --- which we obviously don't want to do if it is only a matter of personal preference. We are trying to figure out if there is a technical (chemical?) reason why one is better than the other. And, given that we already have an oil based product, is there any advantage to changing now to latex (ie. is the latex adhesion compromised by the oil based substrate)?
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Kate and Joe: I believe you've provided some clues to the problems you're facing. Rich was sniffing for something out of the ordinary, and I have a feeling it has to do with the fact that the brick veneer didn't go up until some time after the windows were set. I'm gonna guess that the windows were not immediately painted, but were exposed to the weather for some time in their primed-only condition. Apparently they never got the final coat of paint after the brick and caulking.
It has been my observation (on my own work and that of others) that general house framing shrinkage can cause a separation at caulking points around windows in brick veneer homes. This is particularly noticable above the windows, and generally more so at second-floor levels (since there's more wood to shrink in the structure beneath). For details, see the April, 1996 JLC.
We use only the best caulk, apply backer rod if needed, and do extra priming before applying two coats of the best paint the manufacturer offers. Even so, I've observed the caulking cracks after a couple of years on projects I personally attended to.
Like others here, I prefer 100% acrylic latex over oil-based primer for NEW work, but unlike some others, I would continue with oil if that's what you have now and do not plan to re-prime. I'm "old school" on the issue of latex over oil finish coats. Sherwin-Williams SWP comes only in a gloss, as I recall, but after a year it settles into a satin sheen.
You said that you'll need to dig out the old caulk. If that's the case, DO NOT POWER WASH around the windows! I believe you'll only introduce uncontrolled moisture that will add another layer of problems. Hand wash with a TSP solution with about 20% Clorox added. Rinse lightly and immediately, and hose off the brick where anything runs down. Wear rubber gloves and eye protection.
Here's hoping the builder didn't use silicone caulk...
Good luck, Steve
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Try Schreuder exterior oil, from a 300 yr old Dutch firm which also manufactures marine paints. Expensive, but beautiful stuff. It converted our (excellent) painting contractor who was insisting on acrylic. "The best paint I've ever used," he said.
http://www.fine-paints.com/fp_about.html
(We face SW toward Oregon winter storms, so a marine application seemed in order!)
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1.) We are trying to decide whether to repaint the trim on our house with exterior oil or latex paint. The current paint is oil-based over an oil-based primer. There is a moderate layer of each, but it needs freshening, especially in light of needing new caulking. Our old house had latex paint, but in repainting, we found it was sometimes difficult to get good adhesion of the new paint to the old or even to the underlying wood; this despite sanding and a TSP wash of the old paint. Our new house was painted with oil paint to solve the adhesion to substrate problem. We want to use oil again, but a painter has said he prefers latex to oil for durability...any comments, preferences?
2.) The trim is currently painted with a high gloss finish. We have always preferred flat, but the trim was originally done in the high gloss for reasons unknown. Should we use high gloss for quality reasons, or is it just a matter of personal preference?
Our house is two years old, brick, and has wood windows, doors, and trim. It is on a mountain ridge in Huntsville in North Alabama and sees its fair share of weather conditions.
*The preferred paint today is a high quality exterior 100% acrylic. You can sand the surface of the existing paint, if it's stable and not too thick, before proceeding. I prefer to strip exterior trim and seal it with a wood consolidator to keep out moisture, then prime with a water based primer like Zinsser Bullseye 1-2-3, followed with a top-rated acrylic. Works for me.
*Your house is two years old and the trim needs freshening? And new caulking? There is something strange with this picture.Rich Beckman
*Joe,
View Image © 1999-2000"The first step towards vice is to shroud innocent actions in mystery, and whoever likes to conceal something sooner or later has reason to conceal it." Aristotle
*Rich,I thought the purpose of these messages was to help solve problems not aggravate those who are already aggravated by the fact that work that they paid good money for has to be re-done in two years. I can only guess you must be from an area of the country where there is not a lot of new building taking place, hence some trace of quality still exists. Huntsville, AL has and continues to grow by leaps and bounds every year. Finding good craftsman who are willing to stand by their work is nearly impossible. Finding a builder who is willing to stand up to a subcontractor and require that he do good work is something that doesn't happen. Because of this, my husband and I have ALWAYS had to do everything ourselves. When we built the new house, however, children became our priority and we left the work to the so-called experts HENCE the problem my husband reported.With that --- if you have some advice, let's hear it. Otherwise, keep your smart comments to yourself!
*Kate,Those weren't "smart" comments. They were an alert to something other than paint being at fault if it and the caulk have failed after only two years. Your ungracious response aside, what is meant in the original post about needing "refreshing?" In other words, what is the paint's condition -- flaking, peeling, blistering, or just dull?Oil paint will dull faster than acrylic paint, hence the common use of high gloss oil on trim. Try a semi-gloss acrylic enamel, and it should dull to a nice sheen within a year. This will also be a bit more durable paint than a flat enamel.Oil primer is preferred by many on bare, unsealed wood, but it has no advantages over acrylic primer otherwise, provided there's been proper surface preparation and one's painting in acceptable weather conditions.
*Kate,My apologies. I certainly didn't intend to be making a "smart" comment. I try and keep my comments brief, mostly because there are plenty of people on this board that know ai wholelot more about all of this stuff than I do. Sometimes I get a bit too brief.Barry has adequately explained my intent. (Thank-you Barry). What was meant by "freshening"? The color wasn't just right? or the paint is peeling off? What exactly is wrong with the caulk?It's possible that the painter wasn't the problem. Maybe there's a lot of moisture getting in somewhere (poor flashing, etc.) and causing the paint and caulk failures.Rich Beckman