Hello, my name is Michael Hurley (screen name MHurley); I am a Florida Licensed Residential Contractor and have built several homes as a side business. Two years ago I contracted to buy a new condo on Sugar Mountain in NC. The construction and design is overall very good, and one of the main reasons that I decided to buy it was that they had provided for a low maintenance exterior–50 year architectural shingles, Anderson windows, Hardi plank siding and trim. These items were specified as part of the contract.
During a recent on-site inspection, I discovered–and this was confirmed by the developer–that, while they had used Hardi plank for the siding, they had substituted Louisiana-Pacific Smart Side for ALL of the trim–facia, band-board, corners and windows. Needless to say, I was quite disappointed, and sent them a certified letter as required by the sales contract requesting that they change out this inferior trim material to the specified material prior to closing. They will not do this, and claim that the LP trim is a “better product” than the Hardi trim. So–I’m faced with either getting Lawyered up and trying to force them to make good on their contract, or back out of the contract–you get the picture.
My question to anyone out there with experience with this LP product: Am I being overly worried? Doesn’t this stuff swell up, especially on the bottom edges where water hangs afer a rain? And doesn’t water get in around the nails and at end joints, and eventually cause it to rot and/or fall apart? I know that this is an improved product over the old LP inner-seal, but having seen this material disintegrate under damp conditions–and the NC mountains are damp for much of the year–I’m not real comfortable with the substitution they have made. Many of the places that this material is installed are 50 feet off of the ground, making repairs much more costly. Their claim was that it looked better; I suspect that it’s easier to install and therefore the builder talked them into it.
Any and all thoughts would be appreciated from those of you with first-hand experience with OSB laminated siding in general, and this LP Smart Side product.
Many thanks–
Michael Hurley
Replies
My exp. is that Hardie Trim is awful, I'd rather see the LPSS , but even so Azek would be my first choice.
Edit to add: welcome to BT, relax and stretchout, others will be along shortly with thier take on the situation
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Edited 11/22/2007 8:46 pm ET by Sphere
Thanks for the advice--and that was lightning fast! Would you be so kind as to detail what's so bad about the Hardi trim--this is truly news to me as I've used it for window and corner trim and had excellent durability results. I promise not to ask too many more questions! Your Azek suggestion is a good one, too. . .
Michael
Ask away, I am a transplant from the Mtns of NC. I was in Jackson, Macon and Swain counties for yrs.
Anyway, I feel the Hardie is too brittle, it is prone to corner chipping, and it can be a problem ( or more of a problem) around nail penetrations. Making up an outside corner is asking for trouble, I have seen it split at the joint like MDF will do without a pilot hole.
The OSB like SS is more like advantech in property and won't just snap in half in handling, and I know that Advantech is plenty good outdoors for a long time, I have yet to get my Ipe decking purchased, and have had a sheet down for 3 yrs on the WestNWest side of my house( read hard weather) and it is still good enough to be used as subfloor if I had to use it tomorrow.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"If you want something you've never had, do something you've never done"
Wow, so you know the magic of the NC mountains too!
That was excellent info, and now that you mention the cracking, I recently noticed on a new Cracker Barrel restaurant near here, which is clad in 4 X 8 hardi panel, and about 3" wide vertical battens are applied on about 1 foot centers, mostly for looks. Many of the 3" battens were cracked at the point where they crossed over a joint. So good point--altho I would think the 3/4" thick stuff would be less likely to do that. But you're right about it being brittle, and that would go along with the builder preferring not to use it. And your advantech comparison was good, too--the SS should do even better in that it has a baked on coating, and is not installed flat like your subfloor. By the way, I hope you get that deck finished!
Thank you many times over for the great thoughts!!
Michael Hurley
We just did our first hardi trim job. If we have anything to say about it, we also did our last hardi trim job.
For the life of me, I don't know why anyone would use that product and call themselves craftsmen.....then look down their noses at those that install vinyl siding and vinyl trim.
Folks....there ain't no difference! If it ain't a real piece of wood, it looks cheap, behaves cheap and is cheap....even if you pay double!
I'd probably go to closing and demand that they escrow 5k for replacement. If they didn't, I'd walk out of closing.
FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Miratec. Wonderful stuff. Looks better than wood for painted trim. http://www.miratectrim.com
If it looks different than wood....either better or worse....I'd choose wood. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Well, I don't care for the woodgrain textured side of it. It looks as good as Hardie woodgrain (I don't like that much either). But the smooth side looks like you painted clear fir. Every piece is perfect and holds paint extremely well.
The writer is asking about hardy vs lpss, i.e low maintenance materials. Wood is not low maintenance and also isn't the issue here. --------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
And this:
"Folks....there ain't no difference! If it ain't a real piece of wood, it looks cheap, behaves cheap and is cheap....even if you pay double!"is absolutely wrong.
I like natural wood as much as anybody, but give me an exterior I don't have to maintain and I'm one happy camper. --------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
One of the perks about participating in forums is I get to interject my two cents whenever I get a hankering. Wood is actually very easy to maintain. Put a good quality finish coat of paint on it once every decade and it will last forever. The key to easy maintenance on it is getting a great prime coat and a great first coat. Once you do that, you have a bullet proof product. I don't mind if you use fake stuff. To me, the perfection looks fake. To you it looks perfect. Diversity makes the world go around. Peace. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
You mean your nickel's worth. Inflation, ya' know. ;)--------------------------------------------------------
For a good time, visit MyToolbox.net See some of my work at TedsCarpentry.com
Michael,
Hey, I agree with what has been said regarding the hardi trim. It cracks and chips and I hope I never have to use it again; the homeowner had a connection (read as very cheap) and provided the hardi trim for the project. Corners are imposible, cuts have to be made with a diamond blade saw making lots of airborne silica dust. Over time, it will probably crack as previously mentioned.
I have used, same project also provided by the owner, an OSB type product for soffits. Very dense, wood grain appearance on the outside, OSB on the backside. Seemed fine to work with but can't say overtime or when exposed to prolonged moist conditions.
Good luck.
Larry
For good new rock music, click on: http://www.wolfmother.com
I don't build houses but I did try Hardi's trim products when I resided our home with HP. After buying some Hardi trim and cutting it, I realized it was not a very good material to work with for corners and angles. It is too brittle and the extra weight means lots more fasteners are needed to hang a horizontal piece. The Hardi trim went back to the lumber yard.
I ended up using pre-primed composite trim and made sure all the end cuts were primed well before putting it up.