I’m replacing some exterior brick mould window trim. The top is miter jointed to the side pieces. What’s the best way to secure the miter joints? Biscuits? Glue and nail? Adhesive caulk?
I’m replacing some exterior brick mould window trim. The top is miter jointed to the side pieces. What’s the best way to secure the miter joints? Biscuits? Glue and nail? Adhesive caulk?
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Replies
Window trim miter
I've had good luck making sure I have a tite miter. I then use titebond glue on the miters and shoot it in with a nail gun and finishing nail. Using the nail gun keeps everything in line instead of pounding the nail in with a hammer. I also size the ends before I put glue on. End grain sucks up glue so I put a dab of glue on the end of the miter and scrape it off with a single edge razor blade. This gives the end a glazing thats ready for glue. You can apply your glue then after a minute or so.
Wally
Jim
you can screw those mitres if you work on them on a bench-then lift the whole assembly up and nail it off.
or
if you use PVC brickmold-you can glue those mitres and the pvc cement bonds them together real good.
window Trim Miter
If I use wood should I glue the miter joint in addition to using screws? OK to nail gun the miter instead of screws?
There's another way, cut a groove and glue a spline into the joint. That would be very strong, but too time consuming for production work.
I would,
use glue in any joint regardless of the fasteners used.
And yes, you can use a nail gun, but if so, I would do it on the wall rather than preassembly as the assembly won't take immediate moving around.
I've used a brad nailer for interior trim, pre-assembling, and had no trouble with the pieces shifting. It's simply a matter of "bucking" the pieces well enough. Obviously, a framing nailer's going to be a bit of overkill for brick mold.
Window Trim Miter
I forgot to mention in my original post that the house is vinyl sided. Do you recommend that I remove the vinyl trim around the window before I remove and replace the window trim brick moulding?
I would assume it's vinyl over something else? What's below it? The problem is that the brick mold generally needs to be caulked to the siding (in the pre-vinyl, pre-nailing flange style of construction). Achieving that with the vinyl in place is possible but tricky.
Window Miter Trim
The brick mould does not seem to be caulked to the vinyl trim. I'll have to give it another look. I've replaced window trim in the past but the siding was wood clapboard.
It wouldn't be caulked to the vinyl trim, it would be caulked to the siding behind the vinyl.
Not so fast Dan
Often the J is caulked to the brickmold and it could make sense if there's no secondary line of defense behind the mess.
This is what the OP hasn't told us -- what's behind the vinyl. Brick mold on windows in a newer home which was vinyl from the start would be a bit unusual, so I'm guessing that the vinyl is over older siding. And of course, J-channel is an open conduit for rainwater anyway, and caulking it would do little good (and possibly some harm).
Window Trim Miter
The house is approximately 25 years old. Both the vinyl siding and brick mould are original. If this brick mould/vinyl seems unusual you should see some of the other unusual things the builder did.
Jim
I recommend you get ahold of (google) a detailed instruction sheet on vinyl installation to see how the parts might be put together.
The vinyl trim you mention-"J-channel"?
This is probably nailed to the sheathing behind the siding. It is put in place b/4 the siding is installed. You won't be able to remove it b/4 you remove the brickmold. If it's caulked to the trim, cut through the caulking b/4 you pry off the trim.
Making the window detail water resistant should be your goal.
Window Miter Trim
The vinyl trim and the brick mould don't seem to be caulked together.
I'm not familiar with vinyl. I don't know if it's J-channel. I need some vinyl education.
I've done window trim butted to wood clapboards. This is my first time with vinyl siding.
Window Trim Miter
It's J-Channel. I found this picture on the internet. The house I'm doing looks like this picture although the wood trim profile is slightly different.
I'm probably going to use AZEK brick moulding....it's around the same price as clear pine. Also, I've got to fabricate the sill nosing extensions from PVC....couldn't find a stock nosing extension that matched the profile currently on the house.
Same game plan?
View Image
jim
as you can see, you won't be able to nail into the side (or screw) with the J channel in place.
So, I'd do at least the 3 casings on the bench-if you can add it to the sill extension and it'll go in, then put it all together-then install.
The mitres can be pvc glued and clamped till dry or glued, screwed or nailed to hold till dry..................then the glue makes them become one.
Bevel the top of the sill and bevel the bottoms of the casings to match that angle (to shed water).
The J will be nailed to the sheeting behind the siding.
Make sure you have a good weatherproof seal around the window-check for a head flashing and if none-install that too.
There should be flexible flashing around the window as well---------J channel and siding don't keep out water-they supposedly allow it to drain out.
I urge you to read up on proper window installs (most major window manufacturers have them) as well as vinly installation procedures. When not done as one (as in house wrap, window installs, flashing and siding) it is difficult to interweave the additions and corrections in a manner that will keep the house behind the plastic bag in good shape.
Window Trim Miter
Thank You for the great advice Calvin.
You're the BEST !!!!!!!
Don't get too excited Jim
I've been real wrong many times. But it is easy to suggest going for details in print rather than try to muddle through a description on this board.
Best of luck in this, the devil is in the details!
Window Trim Miter
You've never steered my wrong! I value your experience and opinion!!!
Never steered you wrong?
Alright then,
I see you're south of Boston-
Save the date (Aug 9,10,11,12) for Mike Smith's 2012 Breaktime Fest in Jamestown, R.I. You'll meet some of the nicest and I'd be wrong in not saying (some ) of the weirdest folks in Breaktime history. Should be a no brainer-you're so close.
Look for the details in the Fest Folder and join us.
Besides, I'm nominating you to brink some local Boston brew.
Just to totally confuse things, the couple of times I've done these I used biscuits.
But I've also joined some decking corners by drilling a hole through the assembled corner from one side and inserting a dowel (with glue). That works pretty well.