Hello,
I’m about to begin making my kitchen cabinets. This is my first time building cabinets, and I am thinking very carefully about the exact process.
Do any readers have experience using the router attachment to rout dados with great precision?
Can the guide rail with router attachment be used as an overhead router jig?
In other words, are the guide rail and router attachments rigid enough to be suspended slightly above the panel to be routed?
I worry that the router attachment and or the guide rail will flex or bounce up and down, giving me dados of uneven depth if I use them in this way.
(Since reading John West’s article in “Designing and Building Cabinets” I’ve been intrigued to use this method; I’ve talked to other cabinet makers who say it’s just not worth it to fuss over that much precision…)
I’m drooling over the EZ Smart system for cutting down my heavy panels into manageable pieces. (But even with the EZ Smart, I will still have to bug my guy to get his help putting the next panel on the table…) So, I’m finding this additional equipment purchase hard to justify unless the router guide and guide rail will also serve this extra duty.
Thank you in advance!
Replies
lots of ezsmart info here might help you make a descion
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?f=26
I wanted to let you know how much I appreciate posting that link. I spent a good deal of time yesterday looking at videos and reading about routing with the system. I could not have found it without you! Thank you so much!
Dr.
I cant even begin to imagine what it is that your trying to do, maybe I'm not getting something.
Why do you need to suspend the EZ to make an overhead router system?
I've worked in several cabinet shops, built several hundred sets of cabinets in my time and I dont ever recall needing or even wanting an overhead router, now of course thats just me.
Why cant you set the rail on the ply and with the router attachment run your dados as you wish? The router attachment will follow the rail with the same precision as the saw.
I must be missing something in your discription, which seams to happen all the time!
BTW, I have and use the EZ for all my cabinet work.
Doug
I place a single roller and stand a tad above and right next to one end of the table.
I am then able to roll a panel up on to the table with little problem.
be just a thought
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
Hi Becks...
I have two EZ Smart setups. One goes in the truck and one stays in the shop for cainet work primarily. In a nutshell, it will do what you need and then some. It makes great dadoes, rabbets, rips sheets precisely (I use the Smart Table for sheet goods and work solo all the time). You wont be sorry...
HTH
PaulB
I was using the EZ smart system just the other day and thinking that Dino's next invention should be something for moving sheets goods onto the table! I done mangled the edges of my melamine sliding the boards around on the floor.
Of course, I also used the wrong anti-splinter insert when I was cutting.
Anyway, besides the Sawmill creek forum, check the videos and photos on the EZ smart web site to see if any of those show what you want to do.
http://www.eurekazone.com/gallery.html
Good luck! Post some pictures as you work.
Thanks for the encouragement folks! About the "overhead router jig" here's some background on why I'm looking at that. Upon reading this, I hope it is more clear why I need to know how much bounce there is in the EZ Smart guide rail and router attachment:Since reading John West's article in "Designing and Building Cabinets" (pp. 9-17, 2004 Tauton Press) I've been intrigued to use this overhead method. West reports that, using the overhead router: "We have put together strings of six or seven large cases and have been off less than 1/16 in. for spans of more than 20 ft" (p14). As explained in West's article, "...by using the overhead router with the cutting depth set to leave exactly 1/2 in. of material after the cut is made, we can always trust that the overall outside dimension of the cabinet will be accurate." West explains that by building to the outside dimensions, you "can control the overall length of a string of connected boxes" thus mitigating against inevitable variations in the plywood's thickness (which on a 3/4 in. plywood vary from about 11/16 in. to 25/32 in.)Now, I've talked to other cabinet makers who say it's just not worth it to fuss over that much precision... But, I'm making frameless cabinets, and spacers don't work aesthetically with the design. In my kitchen, variations in plywood thickness could lead to a row of my cabinets being from 3/8" to 3/4" too long or too narrow. So, that is my explanation of why I think it's worth fussing over this.
Dr
I understand you desire for accuracy. Also not wanting to use fillers, I don't care for them myself.
What I'm wondering is is how are you going to deal with the cabinets up against the wall, unless your walls are dead on then your going to have gap issues.
Fillers/spacers don't have to look unattractive, that's your job as a designer to prevent that, good designers do it well.
What are you going to do on your inside corners, without a spacer you cant open adjacent drawers and doors, don't forget the protrusion of the knob/pull.
Make your boxes out of melamine, its the closest thing to 3/4" everything else seams to fluctuate by 1/16th per sheet.
Accuracy is great but good design is better!
Doug
Hi Doug,Since you asked, here are some details on my design:
Fortunately, I don't have inside corners that are visually exposed. I have two inside corners, in the North West corner, I have a sink at a 45 degree angled across the corner. (Here, I have just done a plaster job over architectural foam to build out that corner on the 45. To get the foam cut to the right shape, I had to figure out exactly how my corner is out of square; so I know that the walls bow outward so that the shortest distance across the wall is actually at the floor board.) On the North East corner, the cabinets terminate underneath a ledge (so cabinets on the North wall here, only on the East wall), so there I can scribe a spacer to fill any gap against the North wall and this will not be noticeable. About good design, I've done the design (been working on it for about 2 years). I hope it is a good design, but I'm just learning. So I am open to and welcome ANY suggestions about how to design in spacers with a frameless cabinet design! Thanks for your reply!
dang dino-
What's with all your deletes in this thread?
be puzzling
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
rez
I think thats comming from up top.
think no free advertising!
Taunton invented addvertisement, yuk,yuk,yuk
Dr.
I'm attaching a simple drawing to show you a couple ways to do the scribe to the wall, I've seen others but these are the most common for me.
You don't have to make them as wide as I did in the pic. for instance, the scribe that sits back and creates a shadow line I usually make 1/2" wide.
The scribe that sits even with the door/drawers I will make a little wider, perhaps 1 1/2". Obviously these measurements can be adjusted to fit your needs.
so there I can scribe a spacer to fill any gap against the North wall and this will not be noticeable.
You've got that figured out, put the spacer/scribe where its least noticeable.
Doug
Doug, Thanks for the drawings and explanation.Also want to let you and others know that Dino has created an overhead router jig using the EZ Smart system that is highly desireable: it's capable not only of leaving behind exactly 1/2" of plywood, but can also do exact dados and stopped dados with repeatability. Dino took photos and made video showing the "overhead router bridge". Check out the thread on overhead router jig on the EZ smart forum at this link:
http://eurekazone.com/gallery/Overhead-routing-the-ez-waySo, the answer to my original question is: yes the EZ Smart can be utilized to provide overhead routing, in addition to all the other things the system can do.
Dr.
OK, now I know what you mean by overhead router system!
I guess I conjured up an image of what a pin router does and couldnt get it out of my head! Also couldnt figure out what you needed it for, sorry.
I would have called that something else, now I get it, thanks and I'll be using it.
I do see how it will help you now. I dont dado tops/bottoms/shelves in but now I can see how you can control the width of the box, very clever idea, I will bank that for further use. I might even take a look at the book by John West, sounds like some good tips in it.
Doug
Edited 5/27/2006 1:28 am ET by DougU
The pin router is a dangerous tool.
Yea, my friend "three fingers" Steve can attest to that, seriously!
I must not be getting what Dr. is talking about, get me the pictures, got my curiosity peaked.
Doug
Dino
I'm kinda slow, what do you mean?
Are you an editor? :)
Doug
Dino
I found Designing and building Cabinets by John Kelsey but nothing by John West.
http://www.bestwebbuys.com/House_and_Home-Design_and_Construction-N_10014870-books.html
Doug
Dr Becks
Do you have a link on this book that your talking about?
I found Designing and building Cabinets by John Kelsey but cant find anything from John West.
I have a suspicion that I don't know what you are referring to with the overhead router deal, I was thinking pin router and obviously they aren't the same animal.
Doug
The full reference for the book is:ISBN: 1-56168-732-XFull title is "The New Best of Fine Woodworking: Designing and Building Cabinets"by The Editors of Fine Woodworking
Tauton Press, 2004This book contains 23 chapters, each with a different author. John West's contribution is titled "A Game Plan for Big Cabinet Jobs" pages 9-17. I bought my copy at the local bookstore, Amazon also has it. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/156158732X/sr=8-1/qid=1148622078/ref=sr_1_1/102-1319520-9049726?%5Fencoding=UTF8more on jig in next post.
-Becks