Today was city inspector day.
Framing failed but ok to proceed with insulation Will reinspect with insulation inspection.
Plumbing passed, with a few things that need to be fixed. – also to be reinspected at insulation inspection.
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Everything else, including all of my duct work passed!
Happy dance, happy dance.
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Now for the question. In the garage, there are some ridge supports going from doubled ceiling joists – stick built house. The inspector said not allowed, and one of his suggestions for fixing it was a “floaterâ€. What the heck is that?
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"a “floater”. What the heck is that?"
Would that you had asked him. I assume he doesn't have a second job as a lifegaurd.
Here is my best guess - That you would put a center "walk board" - say a 2x8 laying down across the tops of ALL the ceiling joists so they can do some load sharing, then cut that ridge support to fit and put it back in over the doubled ceiling joist
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You really let him leave without being clear on what he wanted to see?
At the time, I just figured it was a common term that I could research on the net and figure out what he was talking about.
If all else fails, I have his phone number and he is always willing to answer questions. In the interest of keeping peace with the inspector, I try not to abuse that privelege more often that I have to.
I guess it depends on the inspector. Ya gotta be careful, some of these guys will have a dream about something and then all of a sudden it becomes "code" in his district.
I usually have a code book on site. If they say anything I respectfully ask that they show me in the book because "I must have misunderstood the code".
I just meant to say that while he was there I would have found out exactly what he wanted.
you will develop a better relationship with the inspector if you ask questions and clarifications. that is what they are there for. besides, you will probably make his day since he will get a chance to share his knowledge with you instead of just policing jobs all day long."it aint the work I mind,
It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com
He might be referring to a floating header.
I have used them in certain cases.
I build them like a partition, with 2-2x8's vertical and a 2x6 on the flat. The 2x8's get glued and nailed to the sides of the 2x6. THat runs from bearing wall the bearing wall.
THen you can run a few verticals to your ridge, the verticals would be 2x6 also. Dropped into the floating header and nailed to each 2x8. Notched around your ridge and nailed into that.
Without this any deflection in your roof results in bowed ceiling joists and cracked drywall.
Matt- Woods favorite carpenter.
Seems to me if you just run from wall to wall the bottom of this element will be level with the bottom of the ceiling joists. You need something elevated somehow, don't you?
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
The ends of the floating header need to be level with the tops of the ceiling joists.
It can be built up alot of different ways to acheive that.
This is a picture of a roof I put a floating header in. My cousins place in Nashville Tennessee. I still had to put the other 2x8 on. It's easier to put one on put you verticals in then nail and glue the other one on.
Now that I have become a big fan of GRK's I will more than likely use them for floating headers now.
Matt- Woods favorite carpenter.
The partition that you describe is fairly close to the explanation my framer gave. I will call the inspector tomorrow and find out exactly what he wants to see.I don't understand how it ends up proud of the bottom of the ceiling joists either.
That floater is a double joist/beam whose bottom is above the bottom of the ceiling joists, and not in contact with any ceiling joists or drywall. This keeps roof loads from cracking drywall on the ceiling. If the beam is floating over the ceiling joists, and happens to deflect, nothing inside is affected by the deflection. It's not always easy to do these. One thing that can be done is to put a 2x block under the double that's there now and so the bottom of it is above and not attached to the drywall. Add a joist beside this, but not attached, and you'll have what the inspector wants.Another way would be to build the beam above the plane of the ceiling joists. John
Edited 10/24/2007 10:42 pm ET by kpatrix
I think you have the right answer John.My interpretation would be to float a header of some sort, using two partitions as the bases for each end and run the ridge support to the "floater". The idea has already been stated: to keep the expected sag out of the visible ceiling line.fka (formerly known as) blue
Though wonders if this isn't a little silly. This is, after all, a garage.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
A garage?!!!!He's in trouble. A ridge doesn't need support in a garage. He needs some wall ties and if he can keep the walls from spreading, the ridge can't go anywhere.fka (formerly known as) blue
I been wondering that all along. Either the inspector is making things up as he goes, or there is something strange about the way this place is built.
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ok, why does the fact that it is a garage change whether it needs to be supported or not? My framer also thinks that because it is a garage and separated from the rest of the house by a breezeway that the support isn't needed.On one wall, the 2x12 ceiling joists and the rafters rest on the outside wall. It is not clear to me how we are going to support the floater 2" higher at that point.
OK something is strange here.Why do the rafters land on an outside wall om only one end?
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One foundation, one roof. Garage on one end, house on the other, breezeway inbetween. The connection to the breezeway has all sorts of head room.
something still missing here in the description. Does the garageroof slope towards the house and breezeway?
No, that wouldn't allow the ehadroom you descibe....Why are the rafters landing different on one wall of this than on the other side? The rafters on both sides normally land on the exterior bearing walls
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hip roof, rafters land on north, south, and east walls of garage. The breezeway is on the west side of the garage.ceiling joists run east wall of garage to the west wall of the garage where the garage joins with the breezeway.
hip roofNow the light omes on in a dark place, LOLI should have guessed that with you being in Texas
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Okay...now we have a much clearer picture.I still don't see where the concern is for the ridge falling down. I'm assuming you have adequate wall ties to keep everything from spreading. If so, that ridge is going nowhere until those wall ties snap. I do have a new concern though. I'm wondering what you have for the ceiling if it's going to be carrying drywall.fka (formerly known as) blue
The ceiling joists are 2x12's on 16" centers. The joists carrying the ridge supports were doubled 2x12's.
After talking with the inspector, the final answer appears to be replacing the doubled 2x12's with glulams. That will satisfy the inspector and I can get them delivered before the weekend. So the framer can finish off everything the inspector wanted fixed sometime this afternoon and drywall and insulation can start Monday.
That sounds like a fairly straightforward solution.fka (formerly known as) blue
Here is how I am picturing things Jim - Those opposing roof rafters would normally be tied by the ceiling joists to make for no need to have a ridge beam to worry about.If the ridge and hips are framed right, there still Should be no reson to be concerned.But the roof framing is interrupted on the one side to the house for head room pass through so the inspector is viewing this part of it as a gable roof would be and thinking that with the rafters cut there, the ridge needs support. He is probably wrong, but it is cheaper, easier, and wiser to do it his way than to pay for an engineer to writ e letter to prove him wrong and make an enemy of him
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It's pretty common here in Texas to have lots of redundant braces. Even on a straight gable roof, with joists tying the walls together, the inspectors still think you need a ridge prop every 8'I've been told to brace the ridge off of collar ties, in the upper third which really doesn't make any sense at all. A 24' span with a 12/12 pitch and 5' knee walls and a 9' ceiling/collar tie line. Now brace the ridge off double collars every 8' or don't pass inspection. It's crazy.
Yikes! Dont get me worried about Texas inspectors....I'm going to have my first go-rounds with them tomorrow.fka (formerly known as) blue
Then get to bed so you'll be rested and ready
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I agree. It's often ten times easier doing something that isn't really necessary rather than to make someone else understand. You gotta remember, I've been living that life for 35 years!fka (formerly known as) blue
Well, first off, is there going to be a ceiling at all? Secondly, would you really give a rip if it weren't perfectly flat or a few crack developed?Of course, no matter what you need to make the BI happy.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader
Yes, there will be a ceiling in the garage. The garage is also my wood shop, and will have a window A/C unit installed. It only costs me $700 to have it insulated, so seems worthwhile. I'm also having insulated garage doors installed. I'm not sure what the added cost there is.Besides, there isn't a lot of difference in price between installing conduit for the wiring, or installing sheet rock. The sheet rock is surprisingly cheap.
Now that makes sense. I have been wondering all along how this load transferrance would not cause the ceiling to bow
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Depending on the load requirements it's sometimes easier to spec an lvl or double lvl. These can be tapered as well, but have the lvl supplier run some calcs to see how much you can shave off (if space is a limiting factor, especially at the roof/wall).
those annoying things that need a second flush
"And one of his suggestions for fixing it was a "floater" ".
Maybe "floater" is local lingo for bribe...wink.
Runnerguy
We Canadians sometimes refer a few Europeon hockey players who lurk around centre ice waiting for long break out passes as "floaters"
Have a good day
Cliffy
At my age they're the specks that dance about in your field of vision.
If your view never changes you're following the wrong leader