Walter,
Wanted to get your take on Justin’s blog about the fake slate.
http://finehomebuilding.taunton.com/item/5997/this-faux-slate-may-be-worth-a-closer-look
I thought I recalled reading some time ago about a fake slate product made from recycled tires. Not sure how that would perform as a roof covering, but I liked the effort behind the idea.
These play up a ‘green’ angle, but it’s more “you can recycle them after their lifespan is up” rather than “we got a second use out of previously manufactured materials”. Call it the difference between passive and active recycling.
Anyway, I’m curious as to your thoughts. I’ve got a house near me that I’d swear has a fake cedar shake roof in black rubber/resin. It actually looks a lot better than it sounds.
Thanks,
Steve
Replies
Steve - The ones I installed recently were made from pre-consumer recycling of TPO and EPDM waste from the factory. AFAIK, the products made from tires, diapers and other post consumer products have gone the way of General Francisco Franco.
Ecostar (the brand I used) makes some shake mimic products. I tjhink there are other similar products.
http://www.ecostar.carlisle.com/seneca.html
PS - we're gearing up to head your way.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Hey, you get my email(s)?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Thanks. Should I start hiding the women and children?'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Nah - they want 'em, they'll find them.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Steve,
I'm home to get cleaned up for a physical at 2 P M so I don't have time now to go into detail , But I appreciate you valuing my opinion or is it onion ?
I'll expound later on my feelings on Green , and fake roofing when I have a bit more time .
Walter
Walter,Hope the physical went well.I think if you multiply the onion's circumference by Pi you wind up with an opinion ;)Look forward to it.Best,
Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Steve,
Back from the physical - all went well.
It appears Justin isn't real familiar with real slate from his comments - thinking it's too difficult for a proper install , specialized tools needed , etc.
I wished he'd spend a few days with me and I could show him the joys of working with 100 year old stone from Maine that is better quality than much of the new stuff being produced today. He'd be amazed at how easy it is once shown to do it , to lay a lifetime roof.
Being blessed to have access to some of the finest roof slate ever quarried , I guess I'm probably spoiled and too old to want to accept phony products that all claim to mimic natural stone.
What could be more earth friendly ( I hate the word green ) than taking old slate tiles off of roofs either being shingled with asphalt since the nails are gone and the owners can't swing a reslating - or a structure being torn down.
Then re using them at a later date of buildings of the same vintage or in my own case a recycled slate roof on my own buildings.
I'm an old fogie when this question comes up. I like the real thing.
Grant said in another thread that his recent install ran about the same cost as the real thing so I can't understand why you'd take fake as opposed to real at the same money.
I grew up poor and always salvaged all kinds of building materials - many of which I used in my own house construction
You're probably sorry you asked me now !
Some of my upcoming projects will use a bunch of my salvaged slates. I'll be starting a photo thread of one next week , and later in April out on Lobster Island a small barn which has an older asphalt roof will be redone with my salvage. I'll also show that one off with a photo thread.
Sorry for the long winded answer , but thats my feelings on the subject.
Best regards Walter
Walter,Thanks. Nope, not sorry at all to have asked!And I'd agree. Glad Grant set me straight on the part that the earlier recycled rubber slate isn't around much. I thought that idea was pretty clever, I suppose for the same reasons you reuse your material. (I still keep your slate wainscoting in the back of my mind. One day I'm going to try that.)Reading through the Davinci site left a bad taste in my mouth. They had a heavy push to knock how unfriendly mining natural slate was to the environment, without a word about where they were sourcing all their 'virgin' resins from. Maybe this is a good opportunity to get Justin up to see you and show them what an earth friendly install is like.Glad to hear all went well today.Best,Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Steve,
Thanks for the good wishes on the physical.
There are downsides to getting any product to market , but I think real stone is a good choice for a lot of homes.
Obviously one is paying up front for a lifetime roof instead of buying a new one every 20 - 35 years.
I think Justin would enjoy seeing a first class install of a material thats 3 times as long as he is old !!
Best regards , Walter
Edited 3/26/2009 4:18 am ET by theslateman
Your mention of the rubberized "slate" roofing material failures sent me to google. I remember there having been discussion here on the early failures of some "50-year" roofs, but couldn't recall the details. I found the following site that may interest you or others, with a lot of info on rubber v. plastic as a binder. http://www.roofingstore.ca/RubberRoof.htmThe obvious reason to use a faux slate over a stone roof is weight, not cost. I expect it's often possible to upgrade from the REALLY faux slates, e.g. asphalt, with these without having to beef up the bones.
Colleen,
Since slate only weighs 5 or 6 lbs. per sq.' more than archy shingles - unless it was going on your hoophouse - bones shouldn't be an issue for most structures.
Doesn't mean some companies might not push the weight factor to try to sway someone to purchase a faux product.
I would think shipping would be more of an issue. I think Grant has mentioned in some of these discussions that that factor limits his ability to use more slate overall.
Going up to near 50 today !!
"I would think shipping would be more of an issue."I did large slate job in the mtns of CO. There isn't much slate there in normal supply circles, so that guy had it shipped from VT. I think that bill was about three grand back in the mid eighties.
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Unless we're matching existing slate, the shipping is normally the deal breaker.
I'm not sold on the synthetics. The one job I recently did was for a regular contractor customer and the homeowner was a HS friend. The HO wanted this particular product and nothing else. The back of the roof was done with 30 yr dimensionals.
You showed me the library roof and I know of a job here that's starting to look the same. I think it's Eternit as well.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Since slate only weighs 5 or 6 lbs. per sq.' more than archy shingles
I try to be careful before i open my trap - not always successful, lol - so i'd checked before posting. Ejumacate me, considering...
The average weight of a square of slates, according to these folks, is 800#.
Several sites i checked said archy shingles could weigh "up to" 300# per square.
Why would shipping be an issue, if archy shingles and slates weigh nearly the same? Were you referrring to breakage rather than weight?
I'd been all excited about the rubber slates for my Victorian when i first saw ads for them aeons ago in FHB - going green and all that. I couldn't afford them for one thing, but then i became concerned about the weight of even those (the original roof was shakes), so i went with regular ol' tabbed asphalt, which is still looking fine after 20 years, no idea why!
Since slate only weighs 5 or 6 lbs. per sq.' more than archy shingles
I think he meant "per square foot".
The 800 lbs/sq is proabably about right for slate, but some architectural shingles weigh about 500 lbs/sq.
Your typical 30 yr dimensional weighs a little less than 300 lbs/sq.
As far as the shipping costs, asphalt shingles are manufactured and shipped regionally and those costs are known and built into the shingle price.
Slate comes from where the slate is. Most of the slate in my area is PA slate and is of lower quality than New England slate. An 80 y/o PA slate roof is about shot in KY, where that's about middle age for Walter's slate. If I buy New England slate, the shipping sometimes runs more than the actual product.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Edited 3/26/2009 3:10 pm ET by seeyou
Pesky little "'" signs...With a little more searching, i found a "lifetime" shingle that comes in at 480# a square, made by Certainteed, but my god, the thing looks more like sculpture than a shingle! I've never seen one installed in these parts, but then Ian would lament our 'temporary' construction methods, lol. In any case, there's a substantial increase in weight from an asphalt or shake roof to even one of the "Lifetime" roofs, and esp to a slate one, which makes me wonder why Walter would say the bones wouldn't require beefing up. By contrast, the faux slate roofs come in about where the 'normal' archy shingles weigh.The topic of shipping is interesting. I was considering that the slate i'm using in my house came from India, rated for exterior use....hmmmm....and i get it locally for $2 a sq. ft.I read in the article i linked that FC faux shakes also had their problems. Gotta check that out next...
I was considering that the slate i'm using in my house came from India, rated for exterior use....hmmmm....and i get it locally for $2 a sq. ft.
New England slate is probably less than that. Because of the lap and head lap, it takes 18" of slate to expose 8" (Walter, correct me if I'm wrong). I'm assuming you're exposing the entire surface of your slate indoors. And I'm unsure of the difference between flooring slate and roofing slate if there is any.
which makes me wonder why Walter would say the bones wouldn't require beefing up.
The old houses I've worked on that had slate on them originally don't seem to be framed significantly different than the ones of the same vintage that had cedar or metal. By it's nature, slate has to be installed on a fairly step pitched roof, so it will tend to shed it's extra loading as mentioned above. http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Grant,
Your posts to Colleen have been 100% on all day - exactly as I'd have told her.
I think Steve was lining up Justin and I hooking up in a most clever manner ! I was very sorry I couldn't meet he and Mike And Eric in RI a week ago.
I'll be posting later in the photo gallery about a slate and copper job I'm just starting.
Thanks for the second affirmation with Justin.
Best regards , Walter
Okay, i'll take my lumps, but my span tables are still shaking their heads. <G>Add another second to Justin shooting your job.
No ones asking you to take any lumps - just reasoned thought here - unlike the bar room down below !!
I agree with the older slate floor tiles - much better machineing and likely better stone.
Lumps...yeah, after the Tavern, i'm not feeling TOO trampled by the education i'm getting here, lol. It's More a "brawl"-room than a bar-room these days down there; i'm taking a break from the fray while my armor is out getting some remedial welding done.Ian took me by a house in the south of England that he helped his friends re-roof in the 60s with used slates, some special kind that they looked high and low to find a match for. I found reports of stolen roof slates in England...usually the bottom few courses. One roof had been stolen three times and re-sold.
Stil not seeing where you asked an insolation Q
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There is some great slate that comes from Wales and Ireland too.
I've never had the pleasure of working with it or across the pond either .
Maybe some Winter I'll head over to work with someone - stranger things have happened.
I read a lot in the Tav but except for the smokin' Pope thread I try not to start something I can't finish !
Walter,
Mon dieu! What have I started? :)
If I was that crafty I'll gladly take credit for it.
I'll look for my lobster and your autograph in the mail soon.
Looking forward to seeing your handiwork in print.
Best,
Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Steve,
I thought when you first posted to me that that was in the back of your mind , but if not than my most sincere apologies !
Anyone who wants to show up while we're there can get the same meal.
Thank you for the good wishes.
Walter
"Anyone who wants to show up while we're there can get the same meal."hmmmmStarting to look like an impromtu Vinylhaven fest.What's that date again?
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Walter,Maybe it was? Chalk it up to the subliminal gods. I will admit to wanting to see an article from you.Might just be some serendipitous lagniappe, to use that lovely Twain expression. I was testing a site, needed a link and threw in the main FHB one. The blog on fake slate was the first thing there. Not being one to sit in the dark when I can light a candle, I figured you'd be the right person to ask. And everything fell into place.Tempting to come up for the lobster. Perhaps I could pick up Piffen on the way. We could reprise the roles of those two old guys in the theatre balcony from the Muppet Show. LOLBest,Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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He actually lives on the next Island up the coast , so he could almost row over.
Thanks for the lead in so that I could plant a seed.
I'll send the lobsters to you - let them travel instead of you!
When we're there I'll pack some to travel. They're perfect in early Spring - shells still real hard and great meat. I'll even some of the best butter in Maine from Houlton Farms Dairy to soak them in.
Walter
Say, that sounds delicious! And I don't even have to swing anything heavier than a lobster hammer.Just sent you an email about irfanview.Best,Steve'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Steve,
I'll look in a few minutes . Thank you
The Indian slate is gaged a bit thicker, nom. 3/8". Still, shipping halfway around the world for $2/sq. ft...man, i consider this stuff to the bargain of the century.I saw a message board where a fellow who claimed to be a roofer had installed slates to a 4:12 pitch. Elsewhere i read 25º, or closer to 6:12 as the min. I think the faux slate folks talk about 6:12 as their minimum.I could see at the lower pitches that mistakes could be made.
You don't see much roof slate from India cause it's not suitable for such uses.
If you want to see real beauty look up Sheldon Slate and check out their sinks in reds and mottled green and purple.
About 1995, when a chain store called "Color Tile" was still in business in Missoula, i got floor slates that looked exactly like those...for only a buck a square foot. If i'd only known they'd disappear - i haven't seen them available since, at least not as floor tiles - i'd have bought a warehouse full. What a dream to work with, being much better cut, for one thing, but the colors were so warm and dignified, too. Now, i love my "Peacock" Indian ones still, but i know there is no comparison how high of quality the Monson slates are compared to these ones i'm using.
Colleen,
I was at my masonry supply place today and they had sample boards from Sheldon Slate with gauged floor tiles.
Both black and colors - very well cut and nice tight hard stone.
Check 'em out when you have time.
Walter
Colleen, check prior post please - got wrong name in the reply box.
I'm pretty sure i've used that slate already. I got inspired to dig out a picture of the bathroom floor i laid with that slate i mentioned i bought at ColorTile approx. 15-16 years ago, and it looks just like the samples on the Sheldon site, including the red, black, green-purple shades. As i recall, ColorTile also carried at the time an all-black choice in that slate. I checked ColorTile online but they don't carry anything so lovely now.Dunno where the application disappeared to off this damned Mac, but i can't scan the photo right now. I'm trying to like this computer, i really am....
Scanned through this thread quickly and, perhaps this is mentioned and I missed it:
If you are contemplating real slate, don't apply a 100 year roof with a 25 or 50 year nail. I owned a home once which had been roofed that way and correcting it was neither cheap nor easy.
Use copper nails, or stainless. Adds cost but it's the correct way to do the job.
Heres a picture taken last Thursday of a 98 year old slate and galvanized nails that held it - both still in fine shape.
But as Dino has pointed out in other threads hot dipped lasts , where electro galv. is more a short term nail.
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The diff between 300# and 800# is 500# PER SQUARE which is a hundred square feet.Walter said 5-6# / sq ft which is the same thing.Shipping is an issue on jobs where I've seen it because you are mostly going custon direct from the quarry to the jobsite via truck - no rail transport or conmsolidated shipping to a warehouse from a factory.
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I understand that Walter and i were speaking the same language, only separated by a power of ten. <G> The thing i was getting at, at root, is that it's a substantial increase in weight. The question becomes whether the increase is bearable by the structure. Still, the REAL question is whether a roof designed for a dead load of 10# would be up to taking an extra 6# when it's all added up. Maybe...maybe not. Then there's the nasty sheathing folks scrimp on that sags of its own weight between rafters...Can you elaborate on the insolation question i had?
Edited 3/26/2009 5:13 pm by splintergroupie
Colleen,
What kind of sh** box would be built with 2 x 3 rafters <G>
Any structure that is built in a snow climate with an 8/12 roof pitch or above will easily accept slate as it's roof covering.
You don't build the house and slate it with the intention of having the snow slide off so your roof won't cave in - it's just that slate doesn't retain a lot of snow if it's a straight gable roof.
Therefore at times theres a need to install guards to keep the snow and ice from hitting pedestrians , occupants , plantings , horseless carraiges etc.
5 lbs. per square foot of roofing surface shouldn't collapse too many buildings that I've ever seen.
Maybe you talking with Bobby too much !!
Walter
No roof should be designed for only a 10" live load. in my experience, 15# is minimum and that is down in Florida where I think they have increased it by now.But the weight of the shingles or any other covering is not part of live load, it is dead load - part of the structure. Typical dead load design is 15#/ sq ft. This includes framing and sheathing. It is not uncommon for the framing and sheathing to be less than ten pounds. so typical design will easily handle the slate. Total of dead and live may indeed be up to 18#. So borrow three from live load.most places where slate is used have live design loads ranging from 40# to 120#So a few pounds is a small percentage of extra load.However, if indeed somebody is stupid enough to add slate to a roof designed with only a 10# live load rating and increase the load on it by 50%, then you do have a valid concern.now I need to go find your insolation Q. Must have missed it.
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Sorry, i meant "dead" load and flubbed it. I've edited my post. I was thinking the same thing about borrowing from the live load requirement, but i wondered how that affected the warranty, the BI, etc.The insolation question was where you said "one thing countering the weight issue for slate is that it has more thermal mass to take solar heat in". Post 16.I don't see the relation between the two things, i question whether rock exposed to the atmosphere IS a meaningful thermal mass (you can't conserve the collect heat), or why having thermal mass would even be a benefit, except that darker colors would help snow melt...but then, the same principle applies to dark asphalt.
Edited 3/26/2009 5:22 pm by splintergroupie
what I was getting at is what Walter already said in simpler terms.I know that a slate roof might have a couple more pounds of dead load, but I also know that no slate roof will normally have to bear as mcuh live load because the snow will not stay.So total of for instance, a 15# dead and a 50# live design is 65# laod.while switching to a slate roof might mean that you have a 18# dead load but never see more than a 30# snow load on it, totalling a real load of maybe 50# at most placed on a roof designed for 65.That's in my world anyways.
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Trust me, i'm not trying to be obstinate here, just trying to figure things out. The faux slate folks make a grand deal out of their products being lighter weight, so i'm trying to separate hype from reality. For warranty issues or building inspection issues, is it allowable to amalgamate live and dead loads if they amount to the same structural specification? Like i said, i thought of "borrowing" a few percentages from the live load allowance as you did, but didn't know if that was kosher. I was reading a bit on snow guards and roof loading...another topic that's deeper than it appears on the surface.
Hey lady you need to get some fresh air <G>
Man you're already into snow retention and roof loading issues , don't you ever sleep !!
There were some recent threads on snow guards and retention - you'd have enjoyed the math in one of them I bet.
The air's a little too fresh for me still...snowing and sun at the same time today. I hope this is winter's last hurrah, bec even with a week off for Florida, five months of this is getting on my nerves. I was marooned in my driveway for three weeks in Dec, down to -19º. I was googling Boise real estate yesterday...I found the discussion on snow guards you mentioned...pretty lively, LOL! That one got good about the time my galpal and i were sending her husband off to his final resting place, so i'd missed the "goats on parade". (Nod to dovetail.)
For a picky building inspectator it is probably not kosher to figure that way.But I've rarely built under that kind of jurisdiction, and when I did, I got accused of overbuilding more than not.As far as , "The faux slate folks make a grand deal out of their products being lighter weight"They don't have a lot to be proud of or to sell, IMO, so they have to stress what they can.
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I bet any roof Frenchy framed could take a graduated slate roof 3/4" thick slates on the eaves working up to 3/8 or less at the ridge.
We don't have of those here. Westchester Co. and Philly I've seen lots of them. A real pleasing roof but very heavy.
You're dead on that their horn hasn't got many notes to play on the el- fako.
i wanted to compliment you Walter on yout estimites of lifespan. Living in upstate, 2 hours from Vermont, we have a great deal of house with slate roofs on them. Most are being replaced at between 80-100yrs. Unfortuneatly, they are replaced by asphault as the cost of a new slate house would be more than the total cost of the house.
We see lots of 2x3 rafters, that seem to vary in size by 1-2", so roof loads are not a problem. Most rafters on these houses were built with old growth trees, which adds to their strenth.
Most rafters on these houses were built with old growth trees,
That, right there is the big difference. Also, when you guys are saying 2x3 rafters, they're full 2x3 rather than dimensional. Big difference between them and 2x3 SPF at the Home Depot.
My last house had a concrete tile roof. The rafters were all full 2x6. Some of them were on 20' spans on an 18/12 pitch roof. They did frame those areas on 12" centers. http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Thank you Frammer. Thats how I obtain the salvage slate which enables me to have my own supplies.
"We'll have several meals of 2 lb. or better select lobsters if you like them."
Oh, man ... do you need an architect???? ;o)
I've got 2 copies of the Slate Roof Bible and have 4 or 5 slate roofs .... mostly Welsh Black or unfading gray/green ... one with purple mixed in ...
'Will work for lobster' Jeff
Edited 3/26/2009 11:06 pm ET by Jeff_Clarke
Jeff,
How about some pictures of those fine roofs or are you content to just tease me ??
Don't beleve everything you read in the SRB !
This job won't require a archy , but you're welcome to come up for the lobstah fest if you like !
Walter
It'll be interesting to see how the polymer slates play out. It appears they've addressed a lot of concerns that sank earlier faux slates and might provide a good alternative for those who don't live within shouting distance of a quarry.What a shame that asbestos turned out to be so deadly. I googled <Fiberglass cement roof shingles> and got nada. It seems a natural match for a slate-like material with known materials. I wonder why it's apparently not...
Colleen,
As far as I know slate doesn't come in white - only darker colors so it's not like there's a choice on the solar gain issue.
If we have a heavy snowfall here that is not icy at the start - and it occurs at night , my 12/12 slate roof will shed it's load even though theres no solar gain. Slate is just slippery so the snow tends to release - not as much as metal.
The first Winter we lived here we had a substantial storm overnite. About 2 or 3 in the morning it let loose and sounded like a freight train coming by the house - 'cept the nearest tracks are 10 miles away !
My wife almost lost her water - coming from a sound sleep to instantly awake in milli seconds.
Not slate, but icicles where i grew up, in an uninsulated log cabin with a corrugated steel roof. Hearing a row of 6'-long icicles fall off two feet from where one was sleeping could also make one long for an indoor toilet, LOL!
Thats what those Brawny towels are good for.
Splints,
Because every lumber yard in America has asphalt shingles on hand - no extra shipping costs involved.
The quarries want you to pay freight on their product from whereever it's home base is.
Walter
one thing countering the weight issue for slate is that it has more thermal mass to take solar heat in, and is slick enough that a slate roof will shed snow off much faster than an asphalt shingle roof will, so while the slate weighs a bit more on the dead load side, the live load is less, form a practical POV.
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Why would you want your roof material to absorb more solar heat?If shedding snow is the aim, a metal roof is better still. If slipping snow were the goal, why would snow guards be de rigueur...other than they are little works of art, that is? <G>I see pros and cons to shedding snow off. It depends on whether you get whopper, wet snowfall to buckle your framing, or a dry snow like ours that's useful for additional insulation, within reason. I've only had to shovel snow off the roof once since i've owned my own houses, but that was a 3' snowfall in one day on a 4.5:12 pitch.
I'm not trying to argue merits one way or the other. I'm just trying to explain the answers to your questions.
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I'll have to look later when I have more time - or maybe you can find it with the search here - that I have posted photos on two jobs of an earlier version of fake slate. Within 3-5 years there were curling and cupping and losing surface material. I think it was the Eternit brand name.This is an area I am more like Dinosaur on thinking let's wait a generation to see performance before putting my name behind it.
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Your wish is my command sire.
Looks like your library post here
Another thread with the same photos
Different thread with the same Eternit photos
Seems like an idea that was better in theory than practice. I did get a good laugh out of a post from Junkhound talking about maybe cutting his own tires up and nailing the pieces to the roof.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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I just went to the Eternit site and it appears they are a fiber cement product. I wonder if they ditched the rubber/plastic content altogether.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Huh. This site? http://www.marleyeternit.co.ukYou're right it looks like all FC based 'slate' now.Maybe there's a market for fake copper? Get some of those corrugated plastic roofs like greenhouses use, hit 'em with spray paint and collect the check?'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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Maybe there's a market for fake copper?
http://www.guttersupply.com/m-Copper-Penny-Aluminum.gstmlhttp://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
How does that hold up compared to copper? Does the surface scratch easily?Probably leads to a lot of disappointed meth heads, too.'Man who say it cannot be done should not interrupt man doing it' ~ Chinese proverb
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How does that hold up compared to copper? Does the surface scratch easily?
Don't know - I just ordered a sample. Got the 1st customer interested in it.
Probably leads to a lot of disappointed meth heads, too.
There's some that got installed on a garage near my home recently. It actually looks pretty good, but it doesn't really look like copper to my eye. Probably wouldn't fool anyone with an unhealthy interest in recycling it either.
http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
Thanks.This photo is poor quality but this is one of the best comparisons because it has nearly hundred year old slate on the left of the valley vs less than five year old fake slate right side of the valley.http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/at.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&guid=96CA90EF-A08E-41F7-9261-D2465956063F&frames=no
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Walter,At any given time, how many squares of salvaged slate do you keep on hand?I saw the DaVinci product for the first time yesterday at the Roof Center. Looked interesting, but I think I do prefer the real thing to the synthetics. Maybe if the cost/square for the fake stuff wasn't so high- I've heard you can get close to the cost of real good quality slate.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Jon,
I buy salvage when I can afford to or I hear about some roof becoming available.
Too many get trashed here which makes me very sad when I become aware of it happening.
I'm a small outfit so sometimes logistics doesn't work either - not able to leave a job in order to strip their roof myself to keep more cash on the deal.
Last Fall I let a crew use one of my shingle hoists and parked a trailer there for them to use , and to lift there asphalt shingles up too. I'll do some repairs this Spring on some other properties for the owner in lieu of cash.
I don't really know how much I've got in total -maybe 250 - 300 sqs. That encompasses a lot of different sizes as well , from some 6" x 12" all the way to 14" x 24".
I've usually got the right size to repair most any roof in my sphere of influence.
Sorry for the long windedness.
Walter
slateman.
please tell me about recycled slate. I'm under the impression that slate has a finite life. About 100 to 150 years or so. Beyond that the edges spall off and the slate isn't capable of properly shedding water.. True, Untrue?
Now 150 years is a great long time and massively longer than either asphault or cedar yet the idea of pulling off slate from a roof for maybe another 20-30-50 years or so seems to be counter intuititive.
We don't have much slate around here.. The only roof that I know of in my 17 1/2 years is one the owner paid over a million dollars for.. Oops! a nearby college put a slate roof on a new building back in 1991 or 1992 but back then they paid I think it was $400 a square for the slate plus trucking and imported a crew to install it..
Remind me, is red slate more durable because of the iron content?
Frenchy,
Yes slate does have a finite life. Penn. black slate is very soft and might make 60 to 80 years if one is lucky.
Other slates such as the slate that comes from the belt between NY and Vermont could last 100 + years.
Bucking ham from Virginia is a slate with good hardness.
I live in Maine , 70 miles or so from Monson which had incredibly dense , hard stone -- some of the finest ever quarried for roof slates.
It could easily last well in excess of 150 years. So the slate on my house and garage being 100 years - give or take when I salvaged it - still has lots of life left in it .
If it were only a 50 year install I wouldn't have wasted my time.
By the way have you ever done any home projects that could be labeled counter intuitive ??? <G>
I don't know the price of the Davinci stuff. But if it is approaching the same cost then, yes, I see no real reason to go fake over real.Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Justin -
The true installed price of the fake stuff is tough to figure without the specs. To get any kind of warranty, the Carlisle product I just used required I use their proprietary underlayments and nails, both of which were about twice the price of similar products locally available. The accessory pieces were pretty pricey as well.
Also, we've had to go back and tape down a lot of the pieces that wanted to lift a few weeks after installation. And the other "labor inducing" problem we had was that a lot of the UPC stickers were stuck on the product too low and were visible in the rain grooves. We had to go back and scratch them off where they were visible.
I priced the labor on this job at the same rate I would have priced real slate. Other than the packing of extra weight, there was little difference in the installation process and the only slate tool we have that we didn't use was the cutter. I'll add about 20% to the labor charge on the next one if we ever use this stuff again.
And, I second the real slate article with Walter.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
And another thing: We were severly limited by temperature installing the fake slate. We had to have 40F or above for 24 hours prior to installation. Here, it usually rains if it gets above 40F for 24 hours in the winter.http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
<< I wished he'd spend a few days with me and I could show him the joys of working with 100 year old stone from Maine that is better quality than much of the new stuff being produced today. He'd be amazed at how easy it is once shown to do it , to lay a lifetime roof. >>Say the word and I'm there!! But I'm bringing my camera and we're making it an article! Just give me the where's and the when's!Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
Justin,
I've got the perfect location and the perfect job for just such a mission.
The Island of Vinalhaven off the coast here - leave by State Ferry Service out of Rockland - an hour an 15 minites by boat. It's the best lobster fishery in our great state of Maine,
I've got a sweet little barn that needs to be transformed from an asphalt shingle roof to a recycled Monson slate roof - from slate in my inventory.
My friend who works in the movie business in L.A. lets me stay in his home in the village - half a mile from the jobsite.
I'd welcome the idea of you working with us if you'd like , for pay of course . or you can just record the work if you prefer.
I'm looking at the first week of May if that works for you. It's not high off the ground , I have staging already on the Island , and I'll be bringing my ladder lift so the work will be a piece of cake.
We'll have several meals of 2 lb. or better select lobsters if you like them.
There will be no lodging costs - I barter with Dan for the privledge of staying there.
Let me know if you have an interest.
Best regards, Walter