I’m about to install quite a bit of cedar fascia board and am unsure what would be the best corner joint detail. This is for both inside and outside corners. I’m planning on using 1×8 cedar.
I think that a miter joint will just open up no matter what. A butt joint won’t look right and might also open up. What I’m thinking of using is a shiplap, routing the edges so that the boards overlap. When the wood shrinks or expands, the shiplap should hide the joint better.
What does everyone else use?
Replies
Butt, and nail VERY carefully so as not to split the cedar. Even if you lap the joint it will still open and close if the cedar moves and you end up with less meat to hold the nails. JMHO
Butt joints only - put the joint to the non-dominant elevation.
Jeff
What kind of cedar? For CVG red cedar, I would butt the inside corner. Miter the outside corner and use PL Premium adhesive. Use ring shank SS trim nails (the little ones, 7d?)
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My joint type depends on the rest of the style. Sometimes mitered and sometimes buttlaps. Glue and ss ring nails keep it from openning for either style
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I use PLPremium for my miter joints outdoors. what about you? Gorilla glue'd be nice but too messy and a hassle. I hate giving away all my ideas for nuttin'$$ but...PL would be real nice to have in small squeeze tubes.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
real nice to have in small squeeze tubes>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I will second that!
Usually the PL
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Thanks for all the advice.The shiplap joint I described would be terribly labor intensive, even on my radial arm saw with a dado. I hadn't thought about that joint0 reducing the amount of wood to bite into. Good point.Looks like I will be mitering the corners and gluing with PL and using SS ring shanks. I think I'll just butt the inside corners.
BTW, those SS rings are a siding and trim nail, not the thicker ones that would split wood.
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>>I think I'll just butt the inside corners.<<That's better practice anyway. It's essentially a cope.
Blowes has them (I think) in the caulk isle.
They have "PL Premium" in small squeeze tubes??? I know they all have Gorilla glue in small squeeze tubes bvut I've never seen PL come that way....but I don't go to Lowes much being it's much further away then HD.
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
I think I saw some of that once, but it cost about as much as a 11 oz tube
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I think I saw some of that once, but it cost about as much as a 11 oz tube
Yeh...that makes sense...like buying a regular tube vs the giant tubes of PL. Very little price difference. Maybe one day I'll see how it works putting it in a small empty bottle of Titebond
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
You can buy small bottles in the cosmetics section of drug stores, or in the "travel size" aisle at Target. Better quality ones at a sporting goods place, with the camping gear.
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I could be off my rocker ,but I swear I saw some new little display thing.
I like the idea of glueing (never have and butt most fascia now), but am interested in the glue.
What is the consistentcy (sp? tired today) of it?http://www.pioneerbuildersonline.com
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This the stuff?
http://www.stickwithpl.com/Products.aspx?ID=PL-PREMIUM-POLYURETHANEhttp://www.pioneerbuildersonline.com
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From Lot 30 Muirkirk
http://picasaweb.google.com/TimothyUhler
Now I wonder where we can buy it!
That is their version of gorila glue. It has the consistency of cold maple syrup. PL premium is a thick caulking that stays where you put it. You would only be able to squeeze half of it out of a bottle like that.
They are the same family of adhesive just different viscosity mostly.
That is PL Premium that you posted there Tim. But the one everyone is refering to in this thread is the thicker one that comes in tubes for caulking guns. Think subfloor adhesive... with attitude.View Image
That is the liquid PL that is pretty close to the same thing as Gorilla glue. It can drip and make a mess for this kind of joint and will foam out if you use too much. It works, but is a mess to deal with.There is a PL Premium const adhesive in caulk tubes that I use osme times, Titebond III other times edit - I see others answered too.The terminology difference is construction adhesive or wood glue. both are PL premium which is a polyurethene, but the wood glue is lower viscosity and has more expansion, while the const adhesive has minimal expansion and cures harder for structural.You don't really want either one in your hair, but the adhesive is easier to keep out of it.I'm surprised you don't use PL Prem for subfloors etc. It goes further than PL 400 or PL200 and is better in damp environments.
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Edited 4/8/2009 10:01 pm ET by Piffin
Pif,
We usually use the OSI subfloor adhesive. It fits better in our pneumatic glue-gun.
I've seen and used the PL in the caulk sized tubes, but just didn't think about for fascia joints.
You think the PL is better than a standard subfloor glue? I might try it if we get any more jobs :-)
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Sorry I'm late.
Yeah, it's rather thick. It squishes nicely thou.
Note that for gable end joints where the fascia is kept plumb you need to do a butt joint with the gable piece run long.
Dan, you can usually miter in that case, you just clip the bottom of the rake fascia off. Much like the rake frieze on the photo I posted.
You and Piffin bring up a good point though, that it depends on the style of the house. I just don't like to see a butt joint telegraph through if it could have been mitered.
no you don't.Well, maybe you do, but I don't
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As others have said, not always Dan. We call, what you're describing, a "gutter return"... where the fascia rake is run long, then usually trimmed plumb 6" past the fascia (measured plumb) and trimmed level with the bottom edge of the fascia. Usually it's supposed to hide the end of the gutter. But as often as we do that, we also miter the rake to the fascia, bobbing it off level at bottom of fascia as well.View Image
We use a miter joint and havwe very little problem with it opening up.
I have seen so many people that will chaulk this joint for painting, then when the roof leaks in this area, water will sit on top of the facia board rotting it and the tails.I like a little gap on the bottom so water can leak out
Edited 4/5/2009 11:10 am by brownbagg
then when the roof leaks in this area>>>>>>>>>>..
You need a new roofer!>G<
I mitred for 30 years. The first five were cedar. If you fit the pieces correct, they hold. If they are short to begin with and you somehow manage to close them up, they will re-open.
For me, mitreing is a lot faster.
Ditto.
I was taught, and still do to this day, that all outside corners get mitered.
Fascia, frieze on porch beams, returns for gutters, "pigeon landings", trim covering rim on decks........
Never had a problem with joints opening if they were fit correctly in the first place, and glued.
Only exceptions that I can think of are window wraps....because a flat miter will open as the board shrinks across it's width, and I DO butt the joint where my risers hit the skirt on outside stairs....cause you have to draw the line somewhere with deck and porch work..:)
Undoubtably similar to the "Do you miter inside corners w/ crown, or do you cope?" ( I cope ) No real right or wrong, but strong opinions on both sides....
Bing
Undoubtably similar to the "Do you miter inside corners w/ crown, or do you cope?"
Aww, why'd you have to whack that hornet's nest? ;-)
Doh!
sorry ;)