Hello folks,
I’m getting tired of Tap – Cons, and the effort they require to get into the plate and the slab. Sometimes they grab, sometimes they don’t. Sometimes depending on the vintage and type of aggregate, they can be driven easily, and sometimes they can’t be driven home at all. Cross head types, with # 3 bits or the hex head types with the appropriate driver. I find them now a bummer.
What are some better methods of fastening plates down onto concrete?
Thank you in any regard-even just for listening.
Hunts
Replies
I use a powder-actuated nailer for general application....some plates will require heavier anchors.
If you do much attachment of p.t. wood to concrete (plates, furring, etc.), consider a 27 cal. powder gun that uses strip loads. Hilti probably makes the best one, but there are others that will do the job. There is a range of cartridges and nail lengths and types available for different applications (old, seasoned concrete takes a meaner shot load than green concrete).
To buy one requires taking a test and getting certified (a bit of a hassle, but no big deal).
I'm with wormdrive...there was a very lengthy discussion here not too long ago about setting tapcons successfully. But I just couldn't help but think how much easier it was to secure the plate with a ramset (powder actuated fasteners). Of course, my most recent was in a basement remodel, and I'm not sure if building codes will require bolts to hold the bottom plate in new construction...perhaps somebody else can shed light on that one.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
I hear what you are saying about the powder actuated fasteners. Perhaps its because I saw them used improperly, the charge selected wrong or maybe it was just an early generation of their design(s), but, every time I saw a fastener system used as you describe, all that happened was that there was a shallow crater in the slab from fastener impact, and then under the plate was revealed a bent-over nail.
I was never really impressed. So you are saying that a nail at high speed is capable of piercing concrete, and somehow the concrete grabs onto the fastener to hold it in place?? I mean I know how they are supposed to work but...
as I said I was never really impressed with the concept.
Hunts
as I said I was never really impressed with the concept.
And they can look like a poor tool if improperly used.
I once loaned mine to a carp crew for shooting wood to steel. They claimed it wouldn't shoot through steel. Turned out they had the wrong nails (pins). Not 3' from where they were working the roof structure looked like a pincushion from all the pins I shot through the roof deck. They didn't notice, or think to ask. Wasted 3 days drilling holes.
Same can easily be true with shooting to concrete. If you have either the wrong load or wrong pin, failure can happen. That's why they sell various pins and loads. If you spend some time with either a knowledgeable salesman or somebody proficient, you'll have a different opinion.
We shoot 2xs into footers to keep the bottoms of our 8' concrete forms from kicking out. The 2xs come up in splinters, and only then after some serious prying. I bought my Hilti on ebay for $60. Later, enough loads and pins to last me a lifetime.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
I agree with Tom. If you're having trouble being consistent with your fastening the loads or pin length are probably wrong.We have a Hilti DX460. It's pricey but it holds 10 pins and loads. It's really efficient for fastening track in a basement. One nice feature it has is a power compensator. The gun only uses red loads and you dial the power back for green concrete, thin material to be fastened, etc.If it's used correctly a PAT can be a very effective tool.One more thing, Wormdrive said that you have to be licensed. I've heard of this licensing before but have never seen it in effect. I don't know if that is regional or maybe I just don't see it in residential.
Jon Blakemore
Sounds good guys, I guess I have a fresh perspective and will try it again. I must have been witness to some bad examples early on.
Thanks.
Hunts
iI had a couple of heart attacks so i hung up my tool bags and now teach in the construction trades program in ......calif. osha requires licensing and in europe you have to get a permit to buy loads( gunpowder). the carpenters Union program also requires licensing to complete their apprentice program. Hilti gives free certification every semestger to my students and usually give free jobsite demos and certs. in doing formwork we always used a duplex and 16 d green sinker in a 1/4 in hole drilled thru the 2 x into the concrete. when stripping the forms usually a 3 ft crow bar is reequired to pull out the duplex
I know what you're saying...especially when a 16d nail can bend if hit wrong with a framing hammer...so why would a nail go through concrete?
Well these nails are certainly stronger than the conventional nails, and I can tell you from firsthand experience, they are NOT easy to pull out of concrete. I was trying to remove some furring strips in a basement, and I broke quite a sweat trying to pry, twist, and pull the nails out of the wall.
Just make sure the powder load is the appropriate size for fastening into your material.
Justin Fink - FHB Editorial
PL-400 construction adhesive or PL premium (in wet areas) and set the plates with a concrete nail here and there to straighten. The stuff sets up in a couple of hours.
I have a Hilti but don't bother with it for plates since I saw this method. The speed you will gain compared to Tapcons will pay for the glue.
I'm getting tired of Tap - Cons, and the effort they require to get into the plate and the slab
What method and size tapcons are you using?
I gurantee if you try this you will succed 99% of the time.
For a 2x use the 2 3/4"hex head 1/4" shank and drill
your hole(3/16") at least an 1" deeper than the screw(3-3/4")
Also use some construction adhesive under the plate so
when the p.t. material eats throught the tapcon it still
will be anchored.
i have never had a problem using a bosch bulldog and the combo drill and slipover driver. do you use a drill with a sds bit. most have more torwue than a hammer drillthat uses a regular drill chuck?
Try "striker" nails.
have a good day
Cliffy
If you don't like shooting into concrete try using a hammer drill with a 5/16 bit then use three spikes together. Try it once then try to take them out and you will see what I mean