Thought you would like to see this. It was brought to my attention over at JLC.
http://www.ps-tools.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/1580
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Replies
I want that cordless dewalt setup.I wonder how long before available in the states.
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
OMG!! I could use that Dewalt for .............. EVERYTHING!
Nice looking tool.
Still not cheap 239 pounds about $500.00 US.
Wallyo
Interesting that the Makita is priced higher than the Festool.
I wonder if the plunge cut rail saws will remain on the higher end as more manufacturers come into the market?
speed and accuracy without fussy German buttons and knobs! Sounds good to me.
"Interesting that the Makita is priced higher than the Festool."Thats because Makita is buying the guide rails from Festool and has to mark them up. ;-)
Take a good look, they look exactly the same except for the colour of the wear strip.
'Revolutionary'?
More like 'reinvent'ed :-)
However, as a Festool owner, this is actually good news.
More pressure on all fronts to continue improving.
As for pricing, there is hope but too early to tell.
Whoa ... anybody heard from Dino yet?
Game on. Festool has woken up the Dewalt dragon. Countdown until the green machine euro cround starts a whole "yeah, but..." thread.
If nothing else this proves that Festool and Dino were on the right track and got there first. Now lets see if they can remain competitive when big yellow floods HD with $499 complete setup deals ... every dingdong with a credit card will have one.
every dingdong with a credit card will have one
I always wondered which demographic I belonged to!View Image “Good work costs much more than poor imitation or factory product†– Charles GreeneCaliforniaRemodelingContractor.com
"" every dingdong with a credit card will have one.""
What's your point? Is there some secret handshake required to buy, or prove "you're da man!" , when it comes to improved products?...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Easy OBB..thats how you incite a riot..tread softly, and leave the stick at home here..the mods are looking out for us.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Oh, OK.....I'll go get another coffeee and chill.
I need to do something else today, anyway. ;)
...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Edited 1/25/2008 1:45 pm by oldbeachbum
Settle down there, OBB. I was alluding to the fact that the weekend warrior brigade has little impluse control at BigOrange and tends to hop on the instant credit "no really, I'll use that" with whatever the store has a lot of. Gone are the days when we'd go to our local (but still thriving) hardware store and have the salesguy (often the owner's son) talk you out of something you don't really need. Full speed ahead and $10 an hour jobs. Even my old snap-on guy (who has skin in everything on that truck) would even talk me out of some tools that didn't fit what he knew I needed. I was loyal to him until I left the state.
Dingdongs buy what they don't / can't use, it collects dust in the garage for a year, then their wife makes 'em get rid of it. The result: I get kicka$$ deals off of Craigslist for 30 cents on the dollar for top end stuff thanks to our rampant, "you can do it, we can help .... for $$$" retail culture.
I am, in this machine, not on the stinky end of the stick for once. Patient and alert, here are some of my most recent successes: Hitachi NR90AE, brand new, $150 from some guy without a compressor; PC Saw Boss that had been used once for $60; Spotless Craftsman 60 gal 220v upright compressor for $250; Freud edge banding setup for $50; Jet 8" 1 HP bench grinder with pedestal for $100; Jet AFS 2000 air cleaner for $75; list goes on and on. None of this stuff was stolen (heck, the compressor guy even gave me his receipts for over $700 after tax and 3 year extended warranty!) and all if it looks like, well, it was used once!
So don't react to some misplaced sense of "eliteism" in my first post... I am a cheap SOB that is hard as hell on my tools because I USE them and glad that others with a less developed sense of what they can and should do keep feeding my second passion: finding a good deal for great tools!
Edited 1/25/2008 5:55 pm ET by BradG
Hey Brad,
Sorry I got my nose out of joint.
You see, I'm one of "those guys" with a lot of stuff that I have collected. Granted, I may not use everything much, but I do use everything I buy. I don't like to rent and will not borrow. I don't mind saving for and getting something new. Each new and different job is a chance for a new and improved (where have we heard that before) tool.
I've already warned my wife about guys like you. ;). She has strict instructions to first check with my son or son-in-law. It they don't want "it" then what is a fair price. I think my SIL is the one who will get most of them, though. He appreciates what they are and that's OK with me. He's welcome to about anything I have here.
I, too, like to check out estate sales, CL, garage sales, etc. Besides, fondling my tools is fun.
bum...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home....aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
Personally, I think it's the "dingdongs with credit cards" that already have them.
Who else would replace a tablesaw with a circular saw?
There ya go Sphere....heat'll be offa obb now! LOL
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
I just sold my sliding saw attachment and giant outfeed table. They were replaced by my spectacular Festool 55 and guide. I'd get rid of the whole table saw if I didn't make face frames occasionally.
"I never met a man who didn't owe somebody something."
Hey....to each his own.
I was just bustin' some ballz on a Friday.
J. D. ReynoldsHome Improvements
That Dewalt is my choice..
hell, they even use a Marshall Amp for the theme..I know that sound anywhere!
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Edited 1/25/2008 11:04 am ET by Sphere
The Makita comes in metric
I operate in imperial, Metric just won't work for me.
I'll have to check the Dewalt.
My rough calcs show the DW to max cut depth being 2.3" At 90°..SOLD!
BTW take the MM and X by .03937 to get close to a tape measure. I got the commons in my head, but when they get up to 229 MM, I gotta do the math.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Gee, I wonder when Festool's patent expired????
At least DeW is honest ,,, their site, pushing their clone system, has a similar clone ... some wannabe pretending to be Joe Satriani providing the music!
I really liked the Dewalt Video.
But using it on a roof?
I emailed Dewalt as to when they were going to introduce those saws into the US market and the response was they had no plan to bring them in this country.
So anybody that is interested ought to contact them and let them know how much you would like this setup.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
I've used my Festo 55 on the roof many times. It's not really built tough enough for heavy field use. That doesn't stop me from doing it.Steve
Edited 2/2/2008 9:16 am by mmoogie
i personally don't see the advantage over your standard shop made zero tolerance guide which i use frequently enough. the price seems too much to justify the purchase (for me). granted the dust extraction is great, but unless one is willing to invest in the whole system it would seem counter productive if all your other tools are shooting dust. i have yet to see anything that a zero tolerance guard or table saw couldn't do.i'm not slamming all of you festool junkies, but i just don't see the tool paying for itself in my case. please prove me wrong:) i would love to see examples of the tools versatility.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
plunge cuts
taper cuts
cuts in the field (random locations,unusual situations).
I'm not festool nut, but now that I've used my partners for a while I seem to need one all the time.
And yes the price is ridiculous! It's just a fancy skill saw+guide.
those are all things that can be done with your run of the mill home made zero tolerance guide. granted there will be a learning curb for a plunge cut, but we are in the skilled trades right? i guess i feel like i have a sh#t load of saws already, from a business stand point can i make this tool pay for itself and how quickly?
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
Having to justify buying a tool??
Shoot, I wouldn't have 1/2 the tools I do if I did that. LOL
Like everything else you can get along with out it.Like I said it is too expensive.
Depends on what your doing but it is engineered quite well and some of it's more subtle features are what you wouldn't get otherwise.
Electronic speed control-less burning,splinters (what ever else the Germans claim)
Dust collection
Grooved rail-yea you can just be careful with a home made job.
plunge cut -Yea you can just be careful with a home made job.
Proper length rail-its nice to have six inches sticking out the ends That's all I can say really.It's a nice set up,works well.I it all the time, and am finding new uses still.Worth the price?
I'm saving my pennies and waiting for a better deal ( while I use my buddies).
i didn't mean to come off as a total pecimist. anything that gets someone stoked about building things is a good investment IMHO.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
I don't think you were being a pessimist at all. This is a good discussion about a possible investment.
By the way my biggest gripe is carrying the nine foot (I know it's metric) guide around.
Henley,That long guide is a PITA. Guess I need to buy a bigger truck.Steve
For those that haven't heard, Festool has announced that it will start honoring the 3 year warranty on all of their tools according to the serial number.They implicitly stated that they would give warranty coverage for all of their tools, regardless of being the original purchaser. (ie used tools)So if you are looking at buying used, you may well still have a good part of the factory warranty left.This was stated in a forum post at FUG forum by a Festool rep.JT
Not sure if my Subaru could pull ya out if your truck was any bigger!
You know you can get them shorter and join them. Or you can go really long.
Man that is big.http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=491500&ID=3BTW did you know they have this accessory:http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=491750&ID=3#
Arne,I used a shooting board for a while. It's certainly a useful technique. I got exposed to the Festo from a guy I worked with pretty regularly. The more I used it the more I wanted one. The saw stays on line without you making an effort to keep it from wandering off. The guide stays put where you lay it down, for the most part, due to rubber strips on the bottom, and if you need more staying power you can use the clamps that stay below the guide and don't get in your way, or screw it right to the workpiece, which I do when I'm working on vertical surfaces in place.It's got its flaws, as do all tools. The safety release binds up sometimes, it doesn't have enough oomph for dimensional stock without pushing very slowly. The one I have is the older version, and it is too hard to adjust a couple of things. The blades are pricey, and the depth capacity is a little light.That said I'm really glad I have it. Don't regret the money, but will be happy to see some downward price pressure from competition.The new Festo models are better than the one I have in a few ways, and I'm thinking of selling mine off for a new one, but I think I'll wait and see what the other brands are like when they hit the shelves.Steve
Arne,What's a zero tolerance guide? I haven't heard that term.recent instances of festo use:screwed the guide to an exterior wall to cut away the siding in a perfectly straight and exactly-placed line so I could slip in a new window without removing the siding in that area and re-fitting. Multimaster helped with this task too.tapering floorboards 1/4 inch over 8 feet to get the boards running parallel to the wall I was approaching, which was way not parallel to the wall I started laying the flooring from.cutting the crown out of some badly crooked 2 x 12 rafters.trimming the edges of the roof deck.plunging into some already laid flooring to make a cut perpendicular to the boards to lay in a perimeter board next to a flooring register.I know almost all of these things could be done other ways, but my day sure is less annoying with the Festo in my arsenal.Dust collection is not the point for me. I don't own the vac. I have to sweep up the mess after I use the saw.They are too expensive. I'm glad there will soon be some competition. Maybe the price will come down a little.Steve
i use quarter inch luan , about 7". i then screw a very straight piece of hardwood usually 3/4 by 1 1/4 wide to the factory edge of the luan. then i take my saw with the table sitting against the hardwood and cut off the remaining luan ensuring that my saw table remains in full contact with the hardwood "fence". there you have your zero tolerance guide. you can do all the things you listed for about $5.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
What the Festool setup will allow you to do is to cut Melamine and pre-finished plywood and panels with no-chipout on either side of the cut or the top or the bottom.Your shooting guide cannot do that no mater the blade/saw/technique.Your table saw cannot do this unless maybe you have a large cabinet saw setup in the field - I know that I cannot do this on my Bosch saw no matter the blade/technique. With the right pre-feed 1/8" anti-chip pre-cut, and a good blade, I can sometimes get some nice melamine shelving boards cut on my Bosch TS, but even then it's hit or miss, and I'm limited to smaller sized boards.It enables me to create cabinetry components or modify existing cabinetry components in the field with absolute perfection.I also use it to trim down interior doors with no chipout.When using the Festool saw with a vac - you can cut MDF or Melamine board with About 90% of the dust captured - no matter the saw - you cannot do that with a shooting board.To be able to do such tasks onsite with so little mess and with complete 90 degree precision and clean edges makes it worth it to me.No need for the Festool vac - you can use any vac to get the dust - you want a slightly less expensive vac alternative - get the Fein Vac - it's a bit quieter and is also a quality tool made to last for the long haul. If you are still using craftsman rocket engine-loud shopvacs in client's homes, than chances are you are not the kind of person to invest in good tools anyways.The only comparison to a Festool setup is an EZ setup with a dust-collection modified saw. I had one of those setups and it was nice, but the Festool is nicer and easier to use.Julian
I agree that the saw and guide system is well worth the buy in.
I have used my EZ system lately and it has made me more money than I thought it would in just a few months.
I used it to make a built in closet, shelving that fit into dados, table tops, tapered pieses. I make alot of templates now, for whatever I need to make. Then use the rails to cut out the template. Perfect results every time.
I recently bought the router base and made fluted boards with it, again it was perfect. And money well spent.
I am not comparing the EZ to the Festool, just sharing my experience with a saw and guide system.
On another note, I got the baby Senco back Thursday, I haven't tried it out yet, when I do you'll be the first to know. Woods favorite carpenter
i would buy the ez guide before the festool, in fact i have been looking into them. seems like a much more reasonable buy. the festool system in my mind is the rolls royce of on sight shop tools. if i was doing a lot more kitchens or worried about making too much on a job:) i would invest in their tools. as it is my tools are pretty nice, and i don't feel that it would be cost effective to change over just yet.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
i usually apply tape and or block to prevent tear out, but your points are well taken. i guess if i were working with a lot of melamine or pre-finished plywood it might be worth the investment.i'm all for buying tools that increase productivity, but you're making it sound like to not have a festool or ez guide is sub par. i would place a large bet that two comparable woodworkers given the same project, one with and one without the festool would produce similar products in similar times with no quality lost or gained.
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
I was a die hard shoot board user, I used it for everything that I saw fit.
And it worked very well for me for years.
I bought a used EZ system and haven't looked back since.
A new tool is not the answer for everybody, but after I used mine I saw that it was a good investment.
I cut down alot of doors, and the rails have cut my time in half.
I like the EZ because it fits in a gun case, and has other attachments that make it a good system for me, I do almost everything on a job so its a good companion for my job description. Woods favorite carpenter
> you're making it sound like to not have a festool or ez guide is sub par. i would place a large bet that two comparable woodworkers given the same project, one with and one without the festool would produce similar products in similar times with no quality lost or gained.I'd say the answer to that bet is absolutely not, if they are using a lot of Melamine. No comparison. What do you think Matt - agree?Before I got the Festool, I tried every other method I could think of to get clean Melamine cuts - bought a TRU-GRIP ProGrppr guide system with sled, than bought the EZ and now have the Festool.On my Bosch TS saw I tried every method I could think of in terms of blade depth, pre-cuts, etc.I've found that tape alone will not solve chip-out concerns in Melamine, though I realize, of course, there are different grades/qualities out there.You can use the EZ system to the same excellent results, and it has some great features, but I like the Festool saw better and the rails are just simpler to use it seems.If I was sounding tool-judgemental, it might have been my reference to those that use the cheapo loud shopvacs around clients. That, to me - is low rent.Not commenting on using them in construction sites or for heavy duty remodeling. I mean when you are working on these folks kitchens or baths and they are in the next room over working or hanging out. For those types of situations, it just makes $ense to buy and use a high-quality "quiet" vac. Better dust containment as well.Although I keep mentioning how I like the Festool better, if not for the swinging deal I got on a boatload of Festool items from CL last year, I would probably still be using my EZ system and be happy with doing so. Having said that - after using both for quite a few jobs, I'm convinced that if you are buying into either one for the first time - the Festool makes for a better purchase. And if you buy the highly recommended Hilti 267 saw for a EZ system - you've about matched, if not spent more, than what the Festool setup runs.Of course, I work with a lot of sheet good - I realize that those that cut down a lot of exterior doors or have other thick stock needs - the EZ offer better value when compared to the Festool TS75.JT
Edited 2/3/2008 10:20 am ET by JulianTracy
>>I'd say the answer to that bet is absolutely not, if they are using a lot of Melamine. No comparison. What do you think Matt - agree?<<
I cut down melamine for the first time a few weeks ago with my rails and saw. Great results, no chipping or tearout. I was impressed and became convinced that I had made a good descision.
I would still be using my shootboard if I hadn't found a used EZ system. And I am glad I did.
I am sure Festool makes a great product line, and I won't say one is better than the other, because I haven't used the Festool. All I know is that my EZ has produced what its advertised for.
Add Dino to the equation who will answer the phone when you call and walk you through the right steps. (Hard to understand soemtimes with his accent). Makes a good fit for my needs. Woods favorite carpenter
thanks for all of the good points you brought up. maybe in a few months i will be singing a different tune:)
Every day is a gift, that's why it's called the present.
I think you mean zero clearance, and you only have it on one side ( which is usually enough) and splinter the waste side. The F-tool and EZ have the zero clearance features on both sides of the cut. But the home built shooter has been around for a long time and can not be beat $ for $. You can put a strip of masonite or luan on waste side of the shoe of your saw but generally make the guard a little less safe.
I'll be going to a tool show in a couple of weeks. I'll have to bug the DeWalt people about getting that set-up here.